The "tarnish" Poll.

keets

Just thought I'd ask what members felt regarding the word tarnish when used to describe a coin's surface.

Al H.

MICHAELDIXON

Whenever I hear the word 'tarnish' I think of something dark and ugly. If I saw a description of a coin which was 'tarnished' I would look no farther and go on to another coin. Tarnish is to diminish or destroy the purity of stain or destroy. (Dictionary.com)

ModCrewman

Ricko...does not like "tarnished" coins...of any variety.

Definitely negative connotations.

DIMEMAN

I prefer toning.....tarnish implies ugly.

vibr0nic

Yes, and those who use the word "tarnish" use it because of the negative connotation.

Just look at the recent threads related to toning. Almost without fail, those who don't like toning make a concerted effort to refer to it as tarnish. That's fine with me though - I'd rather no one liked toners - they'd be a lot cheaper for me to snap up.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

I like buying toned coins from sellers who use the term tarnished... it leaves more room for negotiation as if the seller thinks it's ugly, then so do I...till I leave with the coin in hand; then it's right back to being toned again

Erik

daOnlyBG

"Tarnish" doesn't sound pretty. "Tar" brings up memories of smelly driveways/roads, and "nish" doesn't have a pleasant ring to it. "Tone" refers to sound, developed muscle, literary techniques, and other stuff that largely have to do with quality. "Toned" is more positive.

vibr0nic

It's pretty obvious which one carries a negative connotation, and again, you can infer a lot about the opinions of those who choose each term.

Definition of TARNISH

transitive verb
1: to dull or destroy the luster of by or as if by air, dust, or dirt : soil, stain
2a : to detract from the good quality of : vitiate <his fine dreams now slightly tarnished>
2b : to bring disgrace on : sully <the scandal has tarnished his reputation>
Source


Definition of TONE

intransitive verb
1: to assume a pleasing color quality or tint
2: to blend or harmonize in color
Source

keets

my belief is that it is most certainly a negative, derogatory term when used to describe the surface condition of a coin; that was the basis for the Poll. I was interested in knowing how other members felt since it seems to be a term in use moreso now than in the past. with a Poll where replies could be anonymous I thought I'd get amore honest answer even though many have chosen to vote and reply.

my next question......................who the heck voted no!!??!!

ModCrewman

<< <i>my next question......................who the heck voted no!!??!! >>

Ricko.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

WTCG

Sometimes for simplicity's sake and as a mild putdown I will refer to ugly toning as "tarnish".

BryceM

I'll vote no. It's just a descriptive term to me, but I understand why others would prefer "toning" when talking about a coin with eye appeal and "tarnish" when talking about an ugly, end-state, or environmentally damaged coin. You don't see tarnish in the description of many Platinum Night auction lots. I really, really like the "old" sense that nice tarnish (toning) imparts to a coin and I think it really complements certain designs. The CBH, Seated, and Barber series come to mind.

That said, I'm of the opinion that all toned/tarnished coins are already on their way out the door in terms of surface damage. That doesn't mean they're not to be enjoyed for what they are. Their chemical travels give them character. Their eventual end will hopefully be several centuries away. Many of the finest people are in similar condition. I am just as happy to collect really nice, original, white coins when they have the same eye appeal. Some do. Really outstanding luster on old, white coins is pretty hard to come by but it does exist. Some coins just don't commonly corrode in a pleasing manner like Peace dollars and SLQs. For these, "tarnish" might seem more appropriate.

To a metalurgist, engineer, or scientist, toning = patina = tarnish = corrosion

To a pureblood numismatist, toning > patina > tarnish > corrosion

Shamika

Let's just say that when I see the word "tarnish" in a post, I don't ever recall seeing it used in a flattering manner.

AngryTurtle

If you want a term for the same thing with positive connotations, use "patina".

nwcoast

I agree with the others.
The word does not often come with favorable connotations.

It well applies to the "interesting change find dime" in a nearby thread...
That coin has been accused of acquiring its color in both sewer and urinal.

19Lyds

Maybe its been said but blackishness equals tarnish while toning equals dicernable colrs of varying degree.

Tones, Tints, Hues, and Shades

Pay particular attention to the definitions where a tint is pure color with White added to it. A Shade is a pure color with Black added to it while a Tone is a pure color with White & Black (grey) added to it.

Tone "best" describes the colors that silver or grey colored coins develop.

I might also add that the natural tendency for coins to develop "tones" is probably the reason that some of these lime green, bright pink and bright purple colored coins look so objectionable. In other words, it "just doesn't look right" as the mind sees it and the tendency is to feel that the color has been "added" instead of "developed".

CoinRaritiesOnline

The only time I hear hear the word tarnish used with respect to coins is by a couple of guys here in the forum.

Cougar1978

Before they invented the marketing word toning, tarnish was the term used.

Tarnish is what it is - reaction to the atmosphere, heat, humidity, or some material. It gets worse over time.

fcloud

I'll take tarnished over dipped and cleaned any day.

ColonelJessup

<< <i>Before they invented the marketing word toning, tarnish was the term used.

Tarnish is what it is - reaction to the atmosphere, heat, humidity, or some material. It gets worse over time. >>



Disagree.... rather, "Patina".

Want to go the other way? "Corrosion"

lcoopie

of course it does

coppertoning

<< <i> I am just as happy to collect really nice, original, white coins >>

AMRC

Just read Ricko's comments!

Dave99B

I'll take tarnished over dipped and cleaned any day.

Well said!

Dave

sniocsu

It does; but it is toning. So I guess its toning if you're selling, tarnish if you're buying

CoinJunkie

I associate the term "tarnish" with silverware, not coins. It's a dull gray to black film which I doubt
anyone would pay a premium for.

FYI, according to Wikipedia, "patina" refers to tarnish on copper. I never knew that.

Type2

Just like crusty or dirty no big deal I like them all. I guess it's how you put it.

LochNESS

<< <i>I associate the term "tarnish" with silverware, not coins. It's a dull gray to black film which I doubt
anyone would pay a premium for.

FYI, according to Wikipedia, "patina" refers to tarnish on copper. I never knew that. >>


Great post sums up my feelings exactly.

Also from a strictly linguistic standpoint, consider that "tarnish" has a negative connotation in conversational English (ex: she tarnished his reputation at work when she told everyone what he said at the Christmas party). That means if your buyer is a newbie with zero numismatic knowledge, they are likely to read negatively into the word, whether or not the coin community uses it negatively.

Steve27

Tarnish is a negative term in any usage, but it's synonymous with toned.

etexmike

I love toned coins. Not that impressed with the tarnished ones.


Mike

WingedLiberty1957

Windycity

Tarnish is accurate. The word has a negative image as used in the English language (Tarnished Reputation) but it is an accurate description of why a "toned" coin looks like it does. Somehow, the statement "attractively tarnished" does work. I'll stick with toned.

lkeigwin

<< <i>Tarnish is accurate. The word has a negative image as used in the English language (Tarnished Reputation) but it is an accurate description of why a "toned" coin looks like it does. Somehow, the statement "attractively tarnished" does work. I'll stick with toned. >>


Yeah, not much of a stigma to have a "toned reputation".
Lance.

ricko

I use the word tarnish because that is what it is.... honesty is not a sin.....the application of the word 'toning' is political correctness in numismatics. Whether the manifestation is progressive colors or final black, it is still tarnish. I do not prefer it in any form, albeit sometimes impossible to avoid. Collect what you like, enjoy your collection and let others enjoy their coins as they prefer them. Cheers, RickO

renomedphys

Thanks to Ricko's abundant use of the word "tarnish", I have come to associate it with toning of all types, be it nice or otherwise.

It's like, somebody posts a beautifully toned coin and Ricko says: "Tarnished coins do not appeal to me." So then I think: Well, I guess I like tarnish.

WingedLiberty1957

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Tarnish = A thin layer of corrosion that forms over copper, brass, silver, aluminum, and other similar metals as their outermost layer undergoes a chemical reaction. Tarnish does not always result from the sole effects of oxygen in the air. For example, silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish; it does not tarnish with only oxygen. It often appears as a dull, gray or black film or coating over metal. Tarnish is a surface phenomenon, that is self-limiting unlike rust. Only the top few layers of the metal react, and the layer of tarnish seals and protects the underlying layers from reacting. Tarnish actually preserves the underlying metal in outdoor use and is called patina. The formation of patina is necessary in applications such as copper roofing, and outdoor copper, bronze, and brass statues and fittings. Patina is the name given to tarnish on copper based metals.


From my Dictionary ...

tar·nish /ˈtärniSH/
Verb = Lose or cause to lose luster, esp. as a result of exposure to air or moisture: "silver tarnishes easily".
Noun = Dullness of color; loss of brightness.


Look at some of those words used ...
"Dullness", "Loss of Brightness", "Corrosion", "Appears as a dull gray or black film over metal"

You "tarnish guys" are barking up the wrong tree (IMHO) when describing some coins

Weg

Tarnish is what my younger sister and I had to remove from the silverware around once a month. It's a word game just like "get that Police Officer" vs "get that cop".

coinbuf

I'm always amazed at the tiny insignificant things that many users of this forum get upset about.

WingedLiberty1957

What would be a parallel negative term for white silver coins?

"Acid-Dipped and Stripped" ?

In any case, collect what you love! Right?
(I have to admit that I like that so many sneer at toning as it makes the prices of those colorful monsters cheaper for me!))

For the rest of you there is always this option to "fix" the tarnish issue ...

vibr0nic

<< <i>what would be a parallel negative term for white silver coins?

"Acid-Dipped and Stripped" ? >>



And the preferred euphemism is, of course, "free of tarnish". Sweet irony.

ColonelJessup

Just kidding about the connection, Ricko, but perhaps your position in the endless dichotomy can best be described in the words of your "co-religionist" Johnny Rotten, who said "It's better to burn out than it is to rust"

CoinJunkie

<< <i>Just kidding about the connection, Ricko, but perhaps your position in the endless dichotomy can best be described in the words of your "co-religionist" Johnny Rotten, who said "It's better to burn out than it is to rust" >>


I believe you're thinking of Neil Young. The lyrics to "My My Hey Hey" also reference "Johnny Rotten",
but I believe what Johnny actually said was "Neil Young is a wanker".

keets

nicely discussed and explained positions, much more civil than I had expected. the only thing I will say is this-----though there have been several references to the "Dictionary" meaning of the words toning and tarnish it seems to me that tone/toned/toning are Numismatic specific terms which describe what takes place to the surface of coins of all metallic compositions, not just silver.

it's sort of like all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs and nobody is really sure about toes.

ColonelJessup

<< <i>

<< <i>Just kidding about the connection, Ricko, but perhaps your position in the endless dichotomy can best be described in the words of your "co-religionist" Johnny Rotten, who said "It's better to burn out than it is to rust" >>


I believe you're thinking of Neil Young. The lyrics to "My My Hey Hey" also reference "Johnny Rotten",
but I believe what Johnny actually said was "Neil Young is a wanker".

>>



As I can't type standing up, I sit corrected.

I can't remember the 60's I believe this song came out a bit later. But it IS the decade when I developed my preference for high quality beautifully corroded silver. Go figure. My (now) ex-wife's ex-husband was the house physician at the Fillmore East. Good seats

In 1985, way afterwards, in a cloudy room with, among others, Walter Breen, I bought silver and copper 1827 Restrike quarters from Rob Kolesar, a Seattle dealer who evidently didn't listen enough to "The Needle and the Damage Done". He was not the only one.

I hope the Breen angle doesn't tarnish my reputation

What was the topic again?

BillJones

The word "tarnish" does not mean a good thing in commection with coins, I do recall seeing the word used in auction catalogs years ago. I have not seen it lately.