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Building my own coin box...
daOnlyBG
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭
I'd like to build my own coin box. I realized that a have a variety of slabs that don't fit into my PCGS boxes (duh) and would like to make one that would fit the smaller slabs- Rattlers, Alpha numeric holders, old ANACS holders, etc. Yes, I am aware that several options exist on the market, but as a little side project, I'd like to make one on my own. Would be fun to show to the Forum, anyway.
I quickly calculated the measurements such a box would need, including the necessary length of the dividers so that slabs don't slip out and such. My question to the community is this, though: what materials should I avoid using, so that they don't harm the encapsulated coins? Though we wish otherwise, the slabs are not air-sealed as we'd like them to be. When ambro51 made his own box, people warned him that wood isn't good for copper; is that true for silver as well? Perhaps it wouldn't matter because the coins are in slabs, or perhaps it still would? I've heard that cedar wood tends to speed the toning process up; though this isn't my intention either way, would it speed up the toning process in a slab?
...I just don't want to mess my stuff up. Any input would greatly be appreciated!
I quickly calculated the measurements such a box would need, including the necessary length of the dividers so that slabs don't slip out and such. My question to the community is this, though: what materials should I avoid using, so that they don't harm the encapsulated coins? Though we wish otherwise, the slabs are not air-sealed as we'd like them to be. When ambro51 made his own box, people warned him that wood isn't good for copper; is that true for silver as well? Perhaps it wouldn't matter because the coins are in slabs, or perhaps it still would? I've heard that cedar wood tends to speed the toning process up; though this isn't my intention either way, would it speed up the toning process in a slab?
...I just don't want to mess my stuff up. Any input would greatly be appreciated!
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Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
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Comments
based finish on your box, (ie paint, lacquer, spirits)
it might have an adverse affect on your coins. I have
a 43 Lincoln in 66 that has large corrosion areas on
the coin due to the above.
<< <i>Here's one I did about five years ago. It is patterned off an original spice cabinet from 1740. It is made out of American Black Walnut. I've had no outgassing problems at all. Very stable.
Thats pretty cool, I love walnut but its so expensive
Steve
78.8% of members stated wood has the the potential to harm coins (there is data about different woods). The wood is bad enough - finishes and adhesives are potentially even worse. Felt...Bad business. No wood is really suitable for coin storage in slabs or other:
PCGS RESPONSE POLL: 42% Voted PCGS Will State "We Thought It Obvious Wood Boxes Have Harmful Potential"
Storage in Wood Harmful? 78.79 % "Yes"!
A Member <<Let me warn everyone that I had a PCGS 30 coin mahogany box full of silver coins including a 1995-w ASE.
After resting closed at room temp for 3-5 years there was definate toning of multiple coins including the 1995-W ASE.
A light golden toning.................
I wouldn't store any blast white silver coins in a wooden box again............ >>
Ellewood returned (fully refunded) his entire set of ENGRAVED PCGS "cherry" (finish) wood boxes and refused to store his Pr Lincolns sets in them.
Yes, old cabinets were made of wood - but is that what you want? Other things were donr in the past - doesn't make 'em right now.l
Anodized aluminum is the way to go!
Best wishes,
Eric
tom
<< <i>Once a finish had fully cured, there is no more harmful gases or other toxic things that will cause problems. I've used this cabinet for five years will all kinds of U.S. coins in it without any detection of any ill affects or even toning. The wood is sealed with the finish and is now safe, in my opinion and experience. Your mileage may vary.
tom >>
Hello,
Do you think the wood no longer hygroscopic? What sealer did you use? The finish can be as bad as the wood. Are you saying sealing would will stop the wood itself from emitting gasses/acidity? What fabric/adhesives did you use?
Best wishes,
Eric
"Although some woods are worse than others, all emit a variety of acids, aldehydes and other lignocellulosic degradation products." (Miles). Wood emits mostly acetic acid; formic acid is produced at 1/10th the amount of acetic acid(Blackshaw). Moisture hydrolyzes acetyl groups in the hemicellulose (a form of cellulose, the "building block" of wood) to produce acetic acid. Elevated temperatures appear to foster acetic acid production (Werner)." I don't know what to make of the claims about sanded mahogany - it is also agreed among conservators that all woods must have a barrier between the wood and the display case interior. "No wood can ever be completely sealed to stop emission of organic compounds, though sealants can impede emission."
"Even after 18 months' drying time, oleo-resinous (oil) paints corroded lead in an experiment cited by Miles. As oil products dry, they undergo oxidative degradation which yields volatile organic acids, aldehydes and carbon dioxide (Miles). Oleo-resinous products include oil-modified paints and varnishes, one-component polyurethane varnishes (e.g., Varathane), alkyd paints, epoxy ester paints, aluminum paints, silicone paints and most varnishes (Miles)."
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Also, I just realized this: I can always made the box out of whatever material, and then line the inside of the box with glass or plexiglass. That might stop the acidic emission that wood gives..(?)
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
<< <i>I should have listened to the Experts here about how horrible wook is for coins since now after only a few weeks most of my coins are nothing but green dust. Completely destroyed them. >>
LOL
Among conservators there is no disagreement about storing metal in wood. It is just not suggested.
Eric
I am just sharing information. Something like 7 members here have had trouble from wood storage one in this thread, and nearly 80% of this room, back in the good old days too, thought wood storage a bad idea. Mr. Spud and I worked on this data together - and we also called the L&C pouch - remember how that turned out?
Best wishes,
Eric
If I were building a cabinet today, I'd use kiln-dried walnut or maple and finish with beeswax. Every time a cut is made or a surface is sanded it breaks cell walls, so I'd oven-dry all cut pieces before assembly to ensure everything is dry and stable. After assembly and finishing, I'd put the whole thing in an enclosure and do a final bake to ensure the glues, any outer sanded surfaces, and the solvents for the beeswax are completely gone before putting it in use. That's my $0.02.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>Interesting discussion on wooden coin boxes. From my research, it seems the type of wood, how it was processed, storage conditions, and finish all matter. Some woods outgas harmful chemicals at room temp (such as oak) while some outgas very little (like hardrock maple and walnut) even at somewhat elevated temps. Oilier woods (such as mahogany) outgas less than drier woods. Finishes continue to outgas for long periods of time if they are not dried properly, and many finishes are themselves hygroscopic. Once the wood or finish re-absorbs water, it will release volatiles again when it dries.
If I were building a cabinet today, I'd use kiln-dried walnut or maple and finish with beeswax. Every time a cut is made or a surface is sanded it breaks cell walls, so I'd oven-dry all cut pieces before assembly to ensure everything is dry and stable. After assembly and finishing, I'd put the whole thing in an enclosure and do a final bake to ensure the glues, any outer sanded surfaces, and the solvents for the beeswax are completely gone before putting it in use. That's my $0.02. >>
Hi,
Thanks - a lot of that is in the links I provided above from Mr. Spud's and my research into this years ago. The "hygroscopicity" of oak is incredible - we noted it in those old threads. Many mahoganies are not true mahogany for example.
Very good point about beeswax! Basically moisture proofing as well as inert. It is used in conservation as well, just like anodized aluminum.
Best wishes,
Eric
It was a fun project and not too expensive.
I guess Oak and Mahogany are out as approved woods. Mine is American Black Walnut (juglans nigra).
Tom
<< <i>It took me about 100 hours and $200.00 in materials to make it.
It was a fun project and not too expensive.
I guess Oak and Mahogany are out as approved woods. Mine is American Black Walnut (juglans nigra).
Tom >>
The Mahoganies available today are a different species I believe and are not high oil content. They outgas acidics like Oak does. Oak is out for that reason. Maple is probably best but not as beautiful (unless you find some curly stock) as Walnut, which is a very good choice.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>It took me about 100 hours and $200.00 in materials to make it.
It was a fun project and not too expensive.
I guess Oak and Mahogany are out as approved woods. Mine is American Black Walnut (juglans nigra).
Tom >>
The Mahoganies available today are a different species I believe and are not high oil content. They outgas acidics like Oak does. Oak is out for that reason. Maple is probably best but not as beautiful (unless you find some curly stock) as Walnut, which is a very good choice. >>
Yes, you are correct. In the link to the old threads I wrote about this "mahogany" is detailed. Bad wood for this, as is oak.
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It took me about 100 hours and $200.00 in materials to make it.
It was a fun project and not too expensive.
I guess Oak and Mahogany are out as approved woods. Mine is American Black Walnut (juglans nigra).
Tom >>
The Mahoganies available today are a different species I believe and are not high oil content. They outgas acidics like Oak does. Oak is out for that reason. Maple is probably best but not as beautiful (unless you find some curly stock) as Walnut, which is a very good choice. >>
Yes, you are correct. In the link to the old threads I wrote about this "mahogany" is detailed. Bad wood for this, as is oak.
Best wishes,
Eric >>
Oak works well for whisky, though.
Speaking of the old days when coin cabinets were constructed of finely crafted, handsome mahogany and such............like 100-150 years ago..........you know, when people used horses for travel, and the unskilled walked around with shovels and carts keeping up appearances after those rude horsies passed by......Well, the car was a big improvement, eh?
Likewise, Al can be anodized with the wood grain of your choice, coin drawers, or boxes can be lined with cotton felt instead of wool felt. You could even design a constantly regulated dehumidifier to keep the contents Mojave dry.
By the way, your cabinet is awesome .
Rainbow Stars
<< <i>Oak works well for whisky, though.
$$*@$ straight! With German bier! And yes, re your gist.
Eric