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Internet Sales Tax
harveypb
Posts: 514 ✭
They are supposed to be voting on it this afternoon..
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/national-blog/ron-paul-and-glenn-kane-jacobs-on-the-internet-sales-tax/
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/national-blog/ron-paul-and-glenn-kane-jacobs-on-the-internet-sales-tax/
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<< <i>if theres no sales tax in new hampshire and all, how long will it take before massachusetts starts belly aching about people going over to where its tax free then? just wondering is all ( or other places doing that across america ) >>
Wouldn't they be doing that already? This is about mail order/internet sales tax. Even if they go across and buy in NH aren't they still required/obligated to pay Taxachusetts sales tax?
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one step closer
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws.
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
The problem is will ebay do what is necessary for those of us who live in tax exempt states? I think not seeing the total ban on everything from Cuba...even that which is legal to own!
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
Don't forget that we are talking about collecting taxes for a transactions that occurred in another state. I feel sorry for online sellers that have to collect sales tax for every state, county, city, or town that has a sales tax and then send each of these taxing entities their money. It'll be a bookkeeping nightmare. Also, don't forget that on-line sellers have to charge their customers for shipping and insurance which B&M stores don't have to charge. Frequently the cost of shipping and insurance exceeds the cost of the sales tax a B&M store would charge giving the B&M store the advantage.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
Don't forget that we are talking about collecting taxes for a transactions that occurred in another state. I feel sorry for online sellers that have to collect sales tax for every state, county, city, or town that has a sales tax and then send each of these taxing entities their money. It'll be a bookkeeping nightmare. Also, don't forget that on-line sellers have to charge their customers for shipping and insurance which B&M stores don't have to charge. Frequently the cost of shipping and insurance exceeds the cost of the sales tax a B&M store would charge giving the B&M store the advantage. >>
One more reason ebay has been moving into "store-front" seller mode the last few years. They realized they would be losing the little guy that sells.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
Really, it is about the states not having rights to tax, that is why it had to go to the federal level.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
eBay hates it because they will have to manage tax codes for every county in the country, and the bookkeeping. TFB, it is the cost of doing business. But of course they will try and push it on the seller's. So they create a market place, charge you a fee to use it, but hey now that the law is being clarified they/we are surprised?
Government costs money. You don't have to like it, that is why their are other governments.
The states will supply software to sellers.
The company most affected will be Ebay. The world's largest online seller, Amazon, is for the
tax because it knows it will hurt smaller online companies.
Sales by the US Mint are not subject to state sales tax.
<< <i>Government costs money. You don't have to like it, that is why their are other governments. >>
The government we have today costs people a larger percentage of their income than the government that was overthrown in 1776 did.
Just sayin'...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
Don't forget that we are talking about collecting taxes for a transactions that occurred in another state. I feel sorry for online sellers that have to collect sales tax for every state, county, city, or town that has a sales tax and then send each of these taxing entities their money. It'll be a bookkeeping nightmare. Also, don't forget that on-line sellers have to charge their customers for shipping and insurance which B&M stores don't have to charge. Frequently the cost of shipping and insurance exceeds the cost of the sales tax a B&M store would charge giving the B&M store the advantage. >>
I really don't know how they plan to enforce this. If you owe taxes to say Oregon and live in Texas how is Oregon going to force you to pay? I suppose they will call Texas, and Texas will put a lien on your house or suspend your license or something? Why would Texas care about other states money? This is a nightmare for the states too. The economy is already pretty dead. I think it will cost far more to process, collect, etc, then it will actually generate.
Just another move, if it happens that will grow the grey economy.
Finally, no one checked the Constitution of course. Article 1, Section 7 - All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives (not the Senate).
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Per:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57583140-93/senate-passes-internet-sales-tax-bill-by-2-to-1-margin/
" The U.S. Senate on Monday approved a controversial bill by more than a 2-to-1 margin that would allow states to levy taxes on Internet purchases.
The Marketplace Fairness Act, which would allow states to require online vendors to collect sales and use tax on certain out-of-state purchases, was approved in a bipartisan vote of 69 to 27. The bill, which already has the support of President Obama, will now move on to the House of Representatives.
If approved, the bill would overturn a 1992 Supreme Court ruling that found out-of-state retailers generally don't have to collect taxes unless they have a sufficient business presence. The bill, officially known as S.743, does include an exception for businesses that make under $1 million a year in revenue.
Backers of the bill, including Walmart, Macy's, and Best Buy, argue that online retailers often do not collect sales taxes at checkout and thus enjoy an unfair competitive advantage over the big-box stores. The Marketplace Fairness Coalition, a group of companies supporting the legislation, says the act would "level the playing field." ...
<< <i>Finally, no one checked the Constitution of course. Article 1, Section 7 - All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives (not the Senate). >>
Like Frank said, "This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws."
If I live in one state and purchase on-line from another state there is already a state law on the books that requires me, the buyer, to report and pay sales tax to my state. Since most all buyers do not know about this, let alone comply, the new law will require sellers to collect the tax on behalf of the buyer's home state.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
This has been in the works for at least 2 years and was initiated by a southern Republican and a northern Democrat Congressional committee chairmen, has bipartisan support and will pass. I'm not sure why the Senate took it up first, but in the presentation given by the Republican committee chairman to a group of us dealers a year ago in Chambourg, it was initiated by the house. Perhaps there was more potential opposition in the Senate so thats why the house member co-sponsers wanted it initiated there.
Regardless, Amazon which lobbied against this for years switched gears a couple years ago and developed the software which will allow all the tracking etc state by state. If one keeps reasonable books it will be relatively simple from what I have been told. I sure hope that will be the case.
Do I like it? No more then any other taxes, but the amount of untaxed sales on the internet has cut into the revenues of all states that have a sales tax, drastically. Due to technology, billions of dollars have gone uncollected at the state and local level over the past years and it was only a matter of time before this large and growing loophole was closed. Brick and mortar retailers have suffered along the way as well, with more sales shifting to online. A lot of folks have enjoyed a sales tax holiday for the past few years as I doubt very few have claimed their out of state or online purchases to their home state as use tax, which is required by law.
I'm not a fan of more taxes, but in this case it's simply a catch up to technology. We have all taken advantage of it and now we won't be able to going forward.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
<< <i>EBay hates this, too, as it will cripple many of their bigger sellers. I wonder if they'll allow sellers to block bidders in certain states that force vendors not in their jurisdiction to collect their taxes. Hopefully the House comes through and kills it. >>
If it passes, look for Ebay to raise their rates too to offset this loss of revenue.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>Finally, no one checked the Constitution of course. Article 1, Section 7 - All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives (not the Senate). >>
Like Frank said, "This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws."
If I live in one state and purchase on-line from another state there is already a state law on the books that requires me, the buyer, to report and pay sales tax to my state. Since most all buyers do not know about this, let alone comply, the new law will require sellers to collect the tax on behalf of the buyer's home state. >>
Not being political - just an observation of facts -- is that conservatives say we need to enforce existing laws about gun
regulations...but when it comes to enforcing existing laws about sales taxes -- wow, that needs to cause an uprising.
When I started as manager of a B&M store 1991-2001 they were doing a huge dollar volume of business in silver eagle rolls (only around
$150 or so at the time) but the buyers would always pull out the ads on the back of the Greysheet for free shipping and no sales tax so if we
wanted the sale, we had to match the price, eat the sales tax and they wanted to pay by creidt card, so we also had to eat the 3% CC fee
( and the Greysheet dealers at the time demanded wire transfers) When I looked at the numbers, the store was losing about $5 per roll sold.
Interesting how a "level playing field" would have worked back then.
<< <i>
Government costs money. You don't have to like it, that is why their are other governments. >>
It would cost a lot less if the govt stuck to the enumerated powers and left the rest up to the States as stated in the 10th amendment.
It appears the confiscation of wealth will continue unabated.
<< <i>
<< <i>EBay hates this, too, as it will cripple many of their bigger sellers. I wonder if they'll allow sellers to block bidders in certain states that force vendors not in their jurisdiction to collect their taxes. Hopefully the House comes through and kills it. >>
If it passes, look for Ebay to raise their rates too to offset this loss of revenue. >>
Ebay won't be required to pay the tax, they will be required to have their sellers collect it on behalf of the state(s). The buyer will ultimately pay this tax. It will cost ebay a software update.
While the bill has passed the senate, I look for the House to make some changes (weaken) it.
Maybe when the smoke clears, one of our ebay volume dealers (MCM?) will chime in with what to expect.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>Colorado doesn't have a state sales tax rate for transactions I think over $1k. The rate is based on the county in which you live, and unincorporated areas are different rates than incorporated within the same county. My brother who lives down in Denver pays a much higher tax rate than I do. Wonder how that will be dealt with. >>
The states are supposed to be supplying the software, so I expect they'll figger out a way to apportion it properly.
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After all it will drive mom n pops off the internet and/or into Amazon marketplace.
There is corporate tax software called Vertex which takes any address and converts it
into a geocode and knows how to charge tax and I guess how to post it.
Needless to say this is expensive software, only major corps can afford this.
When I worked with Oracle Ebusiness Suite there was a monthly feed of Vertex data that had to be downloaded.
Also this is why sometimes you'll get prompted for your county when entering your address on a website.
It's figuring out where you belong for tax purposes, even if they aren't taxing anything.
I'm all for states rights but states rights end at the state border right??
I'm forced to make almost all of my numismatic purchases online. That extra tax may make a difference when making some higher dollar purchases and probably all bullion purchase.
Tell me something, say I have a business that doesn't sell 1 million in sales, at least I thought it wouldn't so I didn't collect taxes for the 9600 different taxing jurisdictions in the US. But something happens, the business takes off and whoops, I just sold my 1 millionth dollar on December 31st. Am I now on the hook for all the sales taxes I didn't collect because my crystal ball wasn't working?
Tell me something else, what ever happened to no taxation without representation? It nice having to work for someone that you have no recourse against in any way. They used to call it slavery, now it's just "paying your fair share."
This is just a VAT tax by another name.
One last thing, the elites in DC are a bunch of scumbags that have never met a tax they didn't like.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Government costs money. You don't have to like it, that is why their are other governments. >>
The government we have today costs people a larger percentage of their income than the government that was overthrown in 1776 did.
Just sayin'... >>
Did we expect "representation" to cost less?
<< <i>Cry me a river for all the states not getting their "fair share." Let them eat cake I say and treat them just like they treat us peons.
Tell me something, say I have a business that doesn't sell 1 million in sales, at least I thought it wouldn't so I didn't collect taxes for the 9600 different taxing jurisdictions in the US. But something happens, the business takes off and whoops, I just sold my 1 millionth dollar on December 31st. Am I now on the hook for all the sales taxes I didn't collect because my crystal ball wasn't working?
Tell me something else, what ever happened to no taxation without representation? It nice having to work for someone that you have no recourse against in any way. They used to call it slavery, now it's just "paying your fair share."
This is just a VAT tax by another name.
One last thing, the elites in DC are a bunch of scumbags that have never met a tax they didn't like. >>
I largely agree with you, but isn't this bill just trying to enforce the tax that is already there and isn't being paid/enforced?
<< <i>
<< <i>The District of Corruption will just spend more, and force me to pay more for coins. >>
This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws. >>
Frank's right about this. What the states need to do is step up and pay fees to license sales tax software for themselves and their various jurisdictions (counties, cities, etc), so that any internet seller has access to them. As a practical matter, the states will see more money coming into their coffers, which will offset the cost of these licensing fees 100 fold, and at the same time, this won't put an undue burden on the internet sellers which now will be required to withhold and remit such sales taxes.
It sounds too logical for it to happen, though.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I largely agree with you, but isn't this bill just trying to enforce the tax that is already there and isn't being paid/enforced? >>
Yes but that enforcement should be up to the individual states against the citizens of that state, not transferred to individual businesses in other states.
<< <i>
<< <i>if theres no sales tax in new hampshire and all, how long will it take before massachusetts starts belly aching about people going over to where its tax free then? just wondering is all ( or other places doing that across america ) >>
Wouldn't they be doing that already? This is about mail order/internet sales tax. Even if they go across and buy in NH aren't they still required/obligated to pay Taxachusetts sales tax? >>
lot of places dont bother to check ( what i was saying if they do it on the internet/mail order why not go after the states that dont enforce it for the other ones that do? )
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tax. Nevada, currently has no way for non business owners to pay the tax that is legally owed.
Perhaps that will change down the road as I know I should pay a tax if it is not collected by the seller.
Usually that tax is paid on the State Income Tax forms. But, we don't have those.
I actually called the State Treasurer's office up in Carson City several years ago and asked what
form I should use (just asking) and was told that there is no form available at the time but they
were looking into a way to collect the tax. Nothing was ever done to my knowledge.
bob
<< <i>When I started as manager of a B&M store 1991-2001 they were doing a huge dollar volume of business in silver eagle rolls (only around
$150 or so at the time) but the buyers would always pull out the ads on the back of the Greysheet for free shipping and no sales tax so if we
wanted the sale, we had to match the price, eat the sales tax and they wanted to pay by creidt card, so we also had to eat the 3% CC fee
( and the Greysheet dealers at the time demanded wire transfers) When I looked at the numbers, the store was losing about $5 per roll sold. >>
Something's missing here. Nobody was holding a gun to your head and forcing you to make the sale on their terms, were they? If you didn't think the terms demanded were a good deal for the store, you could refuse the offer, couldn't you?
<< <i>I still think it would be far easier for eBay to total up everything a user purchases for the year without paying sales tax and issue them a 1099 form... perhaps a new 1099-U. Then that buyer would have to report that amount on their personal returns and pay use tax on that amount if applicable in their state/county/city. The law is already there, but enforcement is the issue. So just 1099 them like every other part of the tax code where enforcement has been problematic in the past. It would be very easy for eBay to issue buyers this 1099 and other major retailers could easily do the same. Seems much easier than the current proposals getting voted upon. >>
Mike - A 1099 U could be sent to the buyer and to the Sales Tax Collection Agency in the state of buyer's domicile. The problem would be enforcement. The only reason a voluntary tax system like ours works is that the overwhelming majority of people affected by it voluntarily comply. But it has limits.
State withholding became compulsory in CA around 1970, because many people would opt out of state withholding, file returns, owe various amounts of money come April 15th, not pay, and it cost the State a fortune to go after these people. Mandatory withholding took care of this.
A similar issue is involved with respect to state and local sales tax. For that reason, I support the concept of the vendor acting as the withholding agent for the taxing jurisdiction under these circumstances.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>Finally, no one checked the Constitution of course. Article 1, Section 7 - All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives (not the Senate). >>
Like Frank said, "This is about states rights to collect taxes already due under their own laws."
If I live in one state and purchase on-line from another state there is already a state law on the books that requires me, the buyer, to report and pay sales tax to my state. Since most all buyers do not know about this, let alone comply, the new law will require sellers to collect the tax on behalf of the buyer's home state. >>
Have you ever tried to pay your state the $6 or $8 you mite owe them if you bought a $100 item from out of state? If that out of state merchant collects the $6 or $8 from you, how can you be sure they won't just keep it? There is no Cabela's in Iowa so if I drive up to Minnesota and buy something from them OTC I am obligated to pay Minnesota sales tax, but if I call on the phone and have it shipped to me here in Iowa then there is no Minn tax, BUT am I required to still pay Iowa sales tax on both transactions?
I wonder if PCGS will be collecting sales tax on submissions. Anyone from Calif know if they are required to pay Calif sales tax? I don't see a place on the PCGS form for tax addition.
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<< <i>Have you ever tried to pay your state the $6 or $8 you mite owe them if you bought a $100 item from out of state? If that out of state merchant collects the $6 or $8 from you, how can you be sure they won't just keep it? There is no Cabela's in Iowa so if I drive up to Minnesota and buy something from them OTC I am obligated to pay Minnesota sales tax, but if I call on the phone and have it shipped to me here in Iowa then there is no Minn tax, BUT am I required to still pay Iowa sales tax on both transactions? >>
A state sales tax not paid on an item bought out of state generates what becomes known as a "use tax" in the home state.
Here is how my home state addresses payment
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
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<< <i>If one buys out of state, I guess I don't understand why State A would not want its full% due regardless of how much one paid in sales tax in state B. There is nothing in in for state A as their business has lost the sale and the state lost its sales tax. Is there some sort of law that says that only one entity can impose a sales tax? >>
Bingo, there lies the problem. States should be attempting to tax all sales made in the states, regardless of where the product goes. If consumers are going to be taxed by a state for purchases it makes the most sense to tax at the point of sale, just as done in retail stores. Funny how it doesn't matter where you are taking the product if you buy in a retail store but it does matter if it is getting shipped to you. A simple removal of whatever law exempts out of state sales would do the trick. It is probably a federal law that deals with interstate commerce. As a consumer I like things the way they are. But if I were a state looking for revenue this is the approach I would take.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
that jurisdiction.
How simple.