After 14 years on eBay, I find myself in an entirely new situation...

FaberCastell

Here is what happened:

1. Two weeks ago, I put up an item for a one-day auction.
2. Item sells for $575 to the highest of five bidders.
3. Buyer pays via PayPal the next morning and I ship the item that afternoon via First Class mail with insurance.
4. We exchange the usual eBay- and PayPal-issued emails that confirms the auction and transaction.
5. Three days later, I note by the tracking number that the item had been delivered so I leave positive feedback for the buyer.
6. One day passes and, not hearing from him, I contact the buyer to inquire if he liked the item.
7. Buyer promptly replied that he had not received the item but would check with his post office and keep me updated.
8. Fast forward two weeks to yesterday and I receive a notice from PayPal that a case has been opened and that the buyer has filed a chargeback, which is basically him requesting his credit card issuer to reverse the payment he made (via PayPal) for my item.
9. I promptly respond by submitting a scan of both the cash receipt and insurance receipt that has the tracking number.

The case will now be resolved by PayPal, who has placed a temporary hold on the funds relating to this transaction, and the buyer's credit card company. After reading additional information on how this dispute is handled in PayPal's Resolution Center, it appears PayPal will dispute the chargeback (on my behalf), but the credit card company will make the final determination as to whether to issue the buyer a refund. If they deny a refund, PayPal will release the funds back to my account. If they do issue one, PayPal informs me they will delete the transaction as if it never took place, meaning I am out $575.

My question is... am I understanding this situation correctly? Never have I ever had anything like this happen after 14 years on eBay without a single problem either as a buyer or seller. Funny thing, I actually believe the buyer to some degree because I checked his feedback rating and it was very much like mine... long time member with a stellar rating. However, one of is going down, so to speak, and for some strange reason, I feel it's going to me. Perhaps my good luck on eBay has finally run its course and I've been long overdue for something like this to happen.

Anyway, I am posting this only because I hope to make it a good learning experience. Any thoughts from anyone? Is there something else I should do or should have done? I rarely post on these boards but do enjoy reading the many topics. Needless to say, since I have learned a great deal from this forum, what better place than to share this unfortunate experience?

TomB

Did you use Signature Confirmation? At $575 you are required by PayPal to use this service. If you did not, then I expect you to lose the case.

C0inCollect0r

As far as I know, in this type of situation involving an item over $250 in value, Paypal requires that you have "Signature Confirmation" of delivery (evidence that the buyer himself indeed signed for it). Otherwise, you are probably out of luck.

Rampage

Your first and only mistake is NOT using signature confirmation. eBay and Paypal require you to use signature comfirmation for anything above $250. Having said that, if Paypal finds in the buyer's favor, which they probably will, then you should go to the USPS and file an insurance claim. Hopefully the buyer will get busted for mail fraud.

ranshdow

As someone who has sold on eBay only occasionally (~26 recs) but over a very long period of time (13y), this smells like fraud on your counterparty's part.

ebaybuyer

if his feedback reflects only his buying activity, yes it will be stellar. ebay does not allow a seller to "rate" the buyer anything but rainbows and balloons so the most dishonest of buyers will still have excellent feedback. kinda almost sorta sounds like an asinine idea, but it seems to work well to tilt the playing field in favor of the buyer

USMoneylover

I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally.

FaberCastell

Thanks for your replies, and you are all correct, I did not use Signature Confirmation, mainly because I didn't realize it was required. I always insured myself and never had any problems whatsoever. I should explain that I was far more active in my earlier years on eBay when most transactions were handled with money orders and cashier's checks. I resisted PayPal as long as possible until they made it a requirement. I do only a couple of auctions a year, at most, and admittedly, have not kept up with all the changes (what I have noticed most of all is how much more complicated setting up an auction is and how much higher the fees are). Also, my feedback rating after 14 years is still under 900, so I am by no means one of those power sellers.

I will visit the post office tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'm sure they can't do much since the tracking number states quite clearly that the item was delivered. I will ask what options I have, if any, including pursuing a mail fraud claim. Could be pretty difficult to go after, I would say. It's also hard for me to believe that a credit card company would issue a refund given such hard evidence of delivery. Oh well... live and learn.

Jinx86

Ive had a few charge back issues with buyers. All my items ship with tracking that showed item was delivered. So far Ive not lost one. I hope the same for you, which is how this should end up.

Edit to add most of my cases were under $50. No signature.

FaberCastell

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony!

renman95

Sounds familiar.

TomB

If the USPS is showing the package as delivered then they will not pay any insurance claim. Since you did not use Signature Confirmation, either, it appears you will be on the hook for this loss.

Ahrensdad

Not sure if this will help. With the dollar value and insurance, the buyer would have to sign for the package. For a fee I believe you can obtain the signature from the PO. I'm not sure that will solve your problem but worth a try. Take all your tracking receipts with you to your local PO and see what they can do.

If that doesn't work, then I'm sorry to say that you're likely out of luck. I do hope that it isn't a situation where a buyer saw you didn't follow EBay/Paypal protocol and decided to take advantage.

Good luck.

Andrew

NotSure

I was under the impression (my local P.O. told me this last week) that there is no more del confirmation, and that ins #'s will now be accepted as a type of del confirm (according to Paypal....most probably know this, but I did not till the clerk ripped the del conf right off the package). Just had a pleasant transaction with Jcarney, and tracking, on the USPS website, the ins number did show 'delivered', so, I guess they don't need the extra $$ from the del confirm (no wonder they are losing $$ hand over fist). If anyone thinks/knows this not to be true, please correct me, but I ALWAYS follow shipping rules...del confirm for under $250, sig confirm over $250...ALWAYS, but like I said, Paypal does know/understand the USPS did away with the del confirm, and will accept this as a del confirm.

That being said, if you did NOT use sig confirm, and the buyer is a long-time ebayer, he knows the rules, and I believe (no doubt) he is taking the loophole for lack of sig confirm on an over $250 item. Plain and simple, he's got the coin, but knows what he's doing, he knows the rules to a 'T' with no sig confirm, so he's going to 'punish you', and knows that it required sig confirm (probably P.O.'ed you used 1st class...). I hate to say this, but he will get both the coin, and his money back.....that is guaranteed by the lack of usr of signature confirm. Had you used it, there would be no claim. Be prepared to take a $575 hit, sorry to say

panther

Been there and learned the hard way also. You will lose your case. Signature Confirmation was the key.
When I am sent something from a seller that does not use signature confirmation, I now e-mail them to warn them there are several buyers that use the Ebay system to get there coins and silver for free.

spy88

If you use eBays USPS "Print Shipping Label", it will automatically add the signature required fee of $2.20. Had two sales in the past 3 weeks in the $600+ and didn't even notice the automatic sig req addition til it printed out.

Like you Robert, I did many transactions 9-10 years ago then stopped selling completely and only bought occasionally. Started back with selling just last month and yea, it was a steep learning curve to list and sell stuff. Lots of changes to learn. The option to print out a USPS label adjusted for size and weight of package is a definite + for me. No more running to the PO, just let my mailman pick up at my mail stop.

I shipped one of those $600+ coins 3 weeks ago. Got to the sort facility that day (following the tracking number) but it took them 9 more days before it was sent from there. Man was I POed! (As was the buyer).

Now I give insurance and sig req on any sale over $200 whether the buyer wants it or not. I'm just so afraid of having it "lost" by a sorter somewhere and the mess involved after-the-fact.

Back in '04, I also had to resolve a case of a seller falsely advertising a coin for sale that wasn't what he claimed it was. I went the whole 9 yards with filing a claim with IFCC, eBay and UPS (mail fraud and false listing). Never heard one word from any of them after the filing. Was out my $800. (Any of you people remember the '04 post I put up about this seller in Georgia that did this?).

AUandAG

Before you go further on this with the PO try one more contact with the seller:

Hi, just wanted to make sure it has not shown up. Before I get the USPS involved I would ask
that you please check with any family members to see if in fact it is there but you were not told
and haven't seen it yet. The PO takes these matters very seriously, especially with Insurance
that I purchased and I don't want to cause you any more problems. The PO will have the signature
of the person that accepted the package and maybe that will tell us something. Just let me know
before I contact your Postmaster.
Thanks,
XXXXXXXX

bob

NotSure

<< <i>I would assume the customer is honest unless proven otherwise. Money doesn't grow on trees--I wish you the best getting to the bottom of this mystery through all reasonable means. >>



You are correct...money doesn't grow on trees, so, when certain people, who know the rules, are given the opportunity to put a few bucks back in their pocket, they take it. Ethical, no, honest, no, but it IS a loophole that will doom the sender. Yes, you must understand the Paypal/ebay shipping rules to a 'T', or things like this will happen.

milkcoin

<< <i>Thanks for your replies, and you are all correct, I did not use Signature Confirmation, mainly because I didn't realize it was required. I always insured myself and never had any problems whatsoever. I should explain that I was far more active in my earlier years on eBay when most transactions were handled with money orders and cashier's checks. I resisted PayPal as long as possible until they made it a requirement. I do only a couple of auctions a year, at most, and admittedly, have not kept up with all the changes (what I have noticed most of all is how much more complicated setting up an auction is and how much higher the fees are). Also, my feedback rating after 14 years is still under 900, so I am by no means one of those power sellers.

I will visit the post office tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'm sure they can't do much since the tracking number states quite clearly that the item was delivered. I will ask what options I have, if any, including pursuing a mail fraud claim. Could be pretty difficult to go after, I would say. It's also hard for me to believe that a credit card company would issue a refund given such hard evidence of delivery. Oh well... live and learn. >>



in this day and age, i am shocked you didn't use signature confirmation. very bad decision on you.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony! >>



That might not hurt to try.

ebaybuyer

no signature required for insured... so that may not be a good card to play

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>If the USPS is showing the package as delivered then they will not pay any insurance claim. Since you did not use Signature Confirmation, either, it appears you will be on the hook for this loss. >>



PayPal handed the decision off to the credit card company. The credit card company may very well accept the insurance tracking number info as proof that the item was delivered since it too requires a signature. Sig conf isn't necessarily in play any more since PP opted out of the decision process.

NotSure

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony! >>



That might not hurt to try. >>



I doubt anything the P.O. will do, or say, unless there is a video of the delivery, will effect this outcome. I am saying alot about this, as I learned the hard way, early on. You HAVE to use certain tracking for certain prices....if it's not adhered to, BAM, you are SOL. There is only one outcome without sig confirm on a $250 plus item.......buyer gets a free coin. End of story, unfortunately.

edited to add...I am not trying to be negative, I wish the OP well, but I know what the outcome will be right now.

FullCameo

I would call the customer personally. If you go to the bottom of the page, under "tools" click on "sitemap". Then click on "find contact info". eBay will email you his phone number.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

FaberCastell, I noted the following in your chronology.

7. Buyer promptly replied that he had not received the item but would check with his post office and keep me updated.
8. Fast forward two weeks to yesterday and I receive a notice from PayPal that a case has been opened and that the buyer has filed a chargeback, which is basically him requesting his credit card issuer to reverse the payment he made (via PayPal) for my item.

The buyer never contacted you again and moved right into a paypal claim/chargeback. I cannot give this buyer the benefit of the doubt. It looks like you are dealing with a thief who has concluded that the lack of signature confirmation is an opportunity to steal. Provided you conclude the same you may want to identify the buyer for others to block.

Greeniejr

Don't bother calling the buyer. He has no incentive to cooperate and its not like you can record the call. It would be heresay anyway. Paypal is very clear on the rules and it is horrible. If the coin is more than a certain dollar value you MUST have signature confirmation. If you do not you are up the creek. I dealt with this situation a few months ago. I was negligent and did not put signature confirmation on the item. They ask 1 yes or no question before their ruling. Did you include signature confirmation. If the answer is no game over you lose no questions asked. I beat this but only because the item was shipped to East Bumble Florida and the person who works in the post office knows the guy and gave me a sworn affidavit that the person indeed picked it up at the post office. As an aside this incident is my only negative in the last 12+ months and despite evidence of fraud, without a court order eBay won't fix it. Good luck but the deck is really stacked.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony! >>



That might not hurt to try. >>



I doubt anything the P.O. will do, or say, unless there is a video of the delivery, will effect this outcome. I am saying alot about this, as I learned the hard way, early on. You HAVE to use certain tracking for certain prices....if it's not adhered to, BAM, you are SOL. There is only one outcome without sig confirm on a $250 plus item.......buyer gets a free coin. End of story, unfortunately.

edited to add...I am not trying to be negative, I wish the OP well, but I know what the outcome will be right now. >>



The PO says it was delivered. The buyer says it wasn't. If the PO has his signature, they will know he is lying. They MIGHT consider that to be fraudulent. His biggest mistake might be not seeking redress thru PP, but maybe there is a reason he chose not to.

TomB

<< <i>

<< <i>If the USPS is showing the package as delivered then they will not pay any insurance claim. Since you did not use Signature Confirmation, either, it appears you will be on the hook for this loss. >>



PayPal handed the decision off to the credit card company. The credit card company may very well accept the insurance tracking number info as proof that the item was delivered since it too requires a signature. Sig conf isn't necessarily in play any more since PP opted out of the decision process. >>



That is not what the OP wrote. PayPal is currently represeting the interests of PayPal in this dispute, which they always do; while the credit card company is representing the interests of the credit card company at this point, which they always do. Someone will have to eat the $575. The seller will not receive complete protection from PayPal since Signature Confirmation was not used. I realize that over a certain amount (something like $200) that Insured Mail had or still has a signature requirement, but I wouldn't count on the credit card company supporting the seller if there is no signature on the slip (this happens) or if the signature is completely illegible. I guess if a signature is still required over $200 for Insured Mail and there is no signature then the USPS may honor the insurance, but I wouldn't count on that, either. It's just not a good situation to be in as a seller.

NotSure

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony! >>



That might not hurt to try. >>



I doubt anything the P.O. will do, or say, unless there is a video of the delivery, will effect this outcome. I am saying alot about this, as I learned the hard way, early on. You HAVE to use certain tracking for certain prices....if it's not adhered to, BAM, you are SOL. There is only one outcome without sig confirm on a $250 plus item.......buyer gets a free coin. End of story, unfortunately.

edited to add...I am not trying to be negative, I wish the OP well, but I know what the outcome will be right now. >>



The PO says it was delivered. The buyer says it wasn't. If the PO has his signature, they will know he is lying. They MIGHT consider that to be fraudulent. His biggest mistake might be not seeking redress thru PP, but maybe there is a reason he chose not to. >>



Bajjerfan, you are right, IF it had a signature. In this case, even though it shows delivered, it doesn't matter, as the rules were not followed. with no signature, PP doesn't care. End of story.

OnlyGoldIdIsMoney is right...

<< <i>The buyer never contacted you again and moved right into a paypal claim/chargeback. I cannot give this buyer the benefit of the doubt. It looks like you are dealing with a thief who has concluded that the lack of signature confirmation is an opportunity to steal. Provided you conclude the same you may want to identify the buyer for others to block. >>

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Don't bother calling the buyer. He has no incentive to cooperate and its not like you can record the call. It would be heresay anyway. Paypal is very clear on the rules and it is horrible. If the coin is more than a certain dollar value you MUST have signature confirmation. If you do not you are up the creek. I dealt with this situation a few months ago. I was negligent and did not put signature confirmation on the item. They ask 1 yes or no question before their ruling. Did you include signature confirmation. If the answer is no game over you lose no questions asked. I beat this but only because the item was shipped to East Bumble Florida and the person who works in the post office knows the guy and gave me a sworn affidavit that the person indeed picked it up at the post office. As an aside this incident is my only negative in the last 12+ months and despite evidence of fraud, without a court order eBay won't fix it. Good luck but the deck is really stacked. >>



The buyer essentially voided the sig conf requirement by seeking a chargeback thru his CC company instead of disputing it thru PP.

pennyannie

I had a similiar problem a while back ( 850 dollars) and i was back charged the amount. Thru a few phone calls they reversed the chargback to me and freed the funds. A day later they siezed the funds again. A few more phone calls and they gave me back the money. Baicly they allowed the ebay buyer to keep the product and they refunded his payment to me. Ebay/paypal ate the 850 dollars. If you get lucky and get a decent employee with any authority you may get made whole. I did mine without blowing my cool but refusing to take no for an answer.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If the USPS is showing the package as delivered then they will not pay any insurance claim. Since you did not use Signature Confirmation, either, it appears you will be on the hook for this loss. >>



PayPal handed the decision off to the credit card company. The credit card company may very well accept the insurance tracking number info as proof that the item was delivered since it too requires a signature. Sig conf isn't necessarily in play any more since PP opted out of the decision process. >>



That is not what the OP wrote. PayPal is currently represeting the interests of PayPal in this dispute, which they always do; while the credit card company is representing the interests of the credit card company at this point, which they always do. Someone will have to eat the $575. The seller will not receive complete protection from PayPal since Signature Confirmation was not used. I realize that over a certain amount (something like $200) that Insured Mail had or still has a signature requirement, but I wouldn't count on the credit card company supporting the seller if there is no signature on the slip (this happens) or if the signature is completely illegible. I guess if a signature is still required over $200 for Insured Mail and there is no signature then the USPS may honor the insurance, but I wouldn't count on that, either. It's just not a good situation to be in as a seller. >>



From what the OP said, if the CC company accepts the insurance tracking as the item being delivered, the seller will get his money. Basically PP is leaving the delivery decision up to the CC company.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I would get on the phone with his local post office and try to speak with his postal carrier personally. >>



I like this idea... thanks!

Or perhaps a friendly email to the buyer reminding him oh, so gently, that mail fraud is a felony! >>



That might not hurt to try. >>



I doubt anything the P.O. will do, or say, unless there is a video of the delivery, will effect this outcome. I am saying alot about this, as I learned the hard way, early on. You HAVE to use certain tracking for certain prices....if it's not adhered to, BAM, you are SOL. There is only one outcome without sig confirm on a $250 plus item.......buyer gets a free coin. End of story, unfortunately.

edited to add...I am not trying to be negative, I wish the OP well, but I know what the outcome will be right now. >>



The PO says it was delivered. The buyer says it wasn't. If the PO has his signature, they will know he is lying. They MIGHT consider that to be fraudulent. His biggest mistake might be not seeking redress thru PP, but maybe there is a reason he chose not to. >>



Bajjerfan, you are right, IF it had a signature. In this case, even though it shows delivered, it doesn't matter, as the rules were not followed. with no signature, PP doesn't care. End of story.

OnlyGoldIdIsMoney is right...

<< <i>The buyer never contacted you again and moved right into a paypal claim/chargeback. I cannot give this buyer the benefit of the doubt. It looks like you are dealing with a thief who has concluded that the lack of signature confirmation is an opportunity to steal. Provided you conclude the same you may want to identify the buyer for others to block. >>

>>



Except that PP isn't deciding if it was delivered, the CC company is and they may not care about SC. The CC took money from PP who in turn took if from the seller. If the CC company says it was delivered PP will give the seller his money back. PP doesn't like chargebacks cuz they get hit for the money. If I was PP, I WOULD NOT reward a customer who tries to screw me in such a manner.

Dolan

Some really good things were said:


<< <i>The buyer never contacted you again and moved right into a paypal claim/chargeback. I cannot give this buyer the benefit of the doubt. It looks like you are dealing with a thief who has concluded that the lack of signature confirmation is an opportunity to steal. Provided you conclude the same you may want to identify the buyer for others to block. >>

-OnlyGoldIsMoney

You could very well be dealing with a thief. Either way, you aren't being made whole, and though the lack of using the signature confirmation should probably lower your expectations, it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to sort this out.


<< <i>I had a similiar problem a while back ( 850 dollars) and i was back charged the amount. Thru a few phone calls they reversed the chargback to me and freed the funds. A day later they siezed the funds again. A few more phone calls and they gave me back the money. Baicly they allowed the ebay buyer to keep the product and they refunded his payment to me. Ebay/paypal ate the 850 dollars. If you get lucky and get a decent employee with any authority you may get made whole. I did mine without blowing my cool but refusing to take no for an answer. >>

-pennyannie

Couldn't agree more with pennyannie's message. Humans aren't robots- they have the ability to read a situation in a bigger context. If you explain your situation to them, and tell them that the routing number indicated a successful delivery, their sense of justice just might kick in and they'd find another loophole to fix the problem out. I don't want to hear that it's a "sure failure." Nothing is certain. There might even be a chance that the PO screwed up the confirmation status and the guy actually didn't get it- in which bringing it to their attention might help you out. Perhaps he really is a thief, and they can provide alternative proof that the credit card company may use against him.

Maybe you won't even get anything in return. But don't let them- the PO, the buyer, or whomever- get away with your money. If you're gonna lose it, make it unpleasant for them.

Edited for format issues

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>no signature required for insured... so that may not be a good card to play >>



Unless the USPS changed their rules and haven't yet updated the DMM, anything insured for more than $200 requires a signature.

Accountable Mail Items:

Accountable Mail requires a signature and/or payment of fees from the recipient or the recipient's agent before delivery can be completed.

You (or a responsible person at the residence) must be present to sign for Accountable Mail.
Signing PS Form 3849 and leaving it for the mail carrier does not meet the minimum requirements for Accountable Mail to be delivered.
Restricted Delivery service is even more specific; the specific person or an authorized agent must be present to sign for and accept this mail.
The following Accountable Mail requires a signature and/or payment of fees:

Insured Mail (over $200)
Collect On Delivery (COD)
Registered Mail items
Postage Due
Certified Mail® items

derryb

open and shut case, you loose. No signature confirmation when required will result in loss of claim. 14 years on ebay you should know sig conf is required on this sale to receive seller protection.

There is also the possibility that a buyer, knowing a required signature was not obtained, is aware that he will win a claim even if he received the coin.

BAJJERFAN

So why would a buyer do a chargeback thru his CC [and risk losing his case] when he can nail him dead to rights thru PP with no SC?

derryb

<< <i>So why would a buyer do a chargeback thru his CC [and risk losing his case] when he can nail him dead to rights thru PP with no SC? >>


Buyer thinks the use of a chargeback will sway paypal decision in his favor. It won't affect outcome, but buyer could very well lose chargeback case if paypal presents CC company with proof of delivery. However, buyer won't lose paypal claim for item not received - paypal requirement for sig. conf. was not met resulting in no seller protection. Buyer will get his money back from paypal, not his CC company, even if he did receive the coin.

TomB

<< <i>So why would a buyer do a chargeback thru his CC [and risk losing his case] when he can nail him dead to rights thru PP with no SC? >>



There actually can be a legitimate reason for a buyer contacting the credit card instead of PayPal and it has to do with the buyer knowing the details of the process. I have had two poor transactions as a buyer on ebay since I joined the site in 1998. The first time was when I returned a coin that I had purchased through ebay from one of our own board members, which should give folks some pause when they assume that all PCGS board members are honest and all ebay buyers are low lifes. The board member attempted to substitute items I did not want instead of a refund and then gave me excuse after excuse as to why he could not refund my $6,500. I had never been in that situation before and my PayPal account was linked to my credit card, not my bank account, so I contacted my credit card directly to handle the dispute. Shortly thereafter, the issue was resolved and I received the funds credited back into my credit card account. I also received an email from PayPal telling me not to contact the credit card company first in the event that this ever happened again because, I believe, PayPal was charged a fee by my credit card company for the dispute resolution. In my case I simply did not realize that I had to deal with PayPal first and thought that going directly to the credit card was the proper thing to do. It may be that the buyer in this dispute was of a similar mind.

lordmarcovan

Crossing my fingers for you. Man, oh man.

I'm comin' up on 14 years on eBay myself, and like you, I've never had this situation (knock on wood), and like you apparently did, I've never really been all that vigilant about signature confirmation and all that stuff.

Is this like the delivery confirmation with Priority Mail, or am I confusing things, here? First Class Insured is what I usually use for stuff between a hundred and five hundred bucks, and Registered above that.

I do a fair amount of international shipping, too, and my usual method of covering my butt there is to cross my fingers and pray.

(So far so good there, though there has been a scare or two with Russian and Far Eastern shipments. Again, knock on wood.)



Hope the best for you.

19Lyds

<< <i>If the USPS is showing the package as delivered then they will not pay any insurance claim. Since you did not use Signature Confirmation, either, it appears you will be on the hook for this loss. >>

Excuse me but I have a;lways been under the impression that anything insured for more than $300 automatically "required" a signature before delivery?

I've even had counter clerks discourage me from purchasing "Signature Confirmatin" on high insurance items.

lordmarcovan

I thought ALL insured shipments required a signature, at least the blue-label, over-$200 stuff.

coinhunters

It's almost impossible to use venues like EBAY to auction or sell outright numismatic items and make even a small profit with the costly fees and buyer expectations like free S&H. Add to that, many times PayPal will freeze your funds availability for a period of time until after your item arrives in the buyers hands as well. Now we have to deal with the likes of buyers who's intent is to scam both the system and sellers. Seller protection???? HA!

SaorAlba

Just because a postal service tracking shows an item being delivered doesn't mean it really was. All it really means is that the item made it as far as the post office.

I found this out about three weeks ago when I tracked my Daniel Carr 1963 and 1975 Kennedy halves into my post office - but the package was NOT in my PO box. I know my post office's employees and even the Postmaster pretty well and I calmly explained to them that something out of the ordinary must have happened in the routine of delivery, it took about 15-20 minutes of scurrying about all the sorting tables, bins etc but finally the package was found on a sorting table. Alls well that ends well and I figure they just made a mistake. It does happen.

Senex

Contact the Postal Inspectors.
They take stuff like this very seriously.

FaberCastell

First of all, let me just say how overwhelmed I am by all of your excellent responses, suggestions, and advice. Collectively, they have helped shape the plan of action I intend to initiate beginning today. I obviously know now what I failed to do (obtain Signature Confirmation) and am willing to bear the loss as a painful reminder to thoroughly do my homework next time. However, that is not to say I'm not willing to rigorously pursue this matter. Padded envelopes simply don't disappear -- a tracking number indicates delivery was made. From that point on is pure conjecture, IMHO, and I am not yet willing to condemn or convict someone without proof. If this individual turns out to have been acting in a dishonest manner, I certainly will go public with his identity to further safeguard the hobby and to help protect other sellers. (True, this person is only a buyer, never a seller.)

The next time I post will be after this matter is resolved one way or the other. Again, I appreciate all of your concerns -- you have been more helpful than words can express. Wish me luck!

rhedden

The post office is possibly at fault. Suppose the coin was delivered, but just left in an unattended mailbox where a third party could steal it. If so, both buyer and seller now have a problem. I would talk to the postal inspector at the buyer's address immediately and not wait for Paypal. The carrier may still remember what was done with the package when it was delivered, which could help resolve the issue. What if they say they handed it directly to the buyer on his/her front porch? That could influence Paypal's decision.

bronco2078

Padded envelopes actually do disappear sometimes.

I shipped about 10 ounces to a person once that lived in an apartment complex which used the large outdoor communal post boxes. The box has a large door on the back that the postal employee loads the mail in from.

Lazy postal workers have a habit of prescanning all the mail delivered before loading the box. If for some reason it won't fit it doesn't go in the box.

You have a box thats scanned delivered but hasn't been, the employee then attempts to bring the box to your door but if no one is home can't hand it to you.

They may hand it to a neighbor that doesn't like you or put it back in the truck and it disappears into the system .

They never unscan the package as delivered however so the electronic trail goes dead at that point. If its your regular postman you are usually fine but if a sub is doing the route all bets are off. In my cases the package never turned up and because the buyer was someone I knew I don't believe they stole it.

I had my local postmaster call the postmaster on the other end and get them to search the office but it wasn't there, that postmaster explained about the prescanning problem and said it was impossible to stop the carriers from doing that.