Investing in silver?

tougregt

What is the prefered way to invest in small amounts of silver? Rounds? Silver eagles? 1oz, 10oz 100oz bars? and why? American coinage, or foreign coinage ? Thank's

PerryHall

I like ASE's and bars from recognized refiners and are marked as such on the bar. Silver coins that are 900 fine also work as long as they aren't too worn. I'm patient and look for buying opportunities where the silver is close to spot.

DrBuster

All of the above. But do what is comfortable and enjoyable to you.

Some folks like bars, coins, gov rounds, generics, etc. etc. My pirate action likes it all, although I like to keep things 10oz or less for the most part (haven't gotten my kilo yet).

LukeMarshall

Nothing like a good Kilo bar Doc.....

I'd say do whatever feels right to you, just define your stack as an investment.

IMO there is no sence in paying top dollar for mass produced frosty proof kookapandadeath rounds

Get you some dimes......

mariner67

90% silver US coinage.
Not really counterfited and widely accepted, readily available just about everywhere.

Weiss

<< <i>What is the prefered way to invest in small amounts of silver? Rounds? Silver eagles? 1oz, 10oz 100oz bars? and why? American coinage, or foreign coinage ? Thank's >>



My often quoted, rarely credited diatribe on silver. You're welcome

Pre-1965 US 90% silver coins –the very best way to own physical silver. Period.

Pre 1965 90% US silver is the best metals choice for the same reasons it's always been the best choice. Think about these key points in a relatively safe economic environment, and then think about them in a dangerous SHTF environment, and anywhere in between. Each point changes based on the situation, and each becomes more important the more unstable things become:

A) Recognition. People from this country and all over the world recognize it, are familiar with it, and are comfortable with it--even people who don't know anything about metals. I'd wager 90% of the US population has no idea what a gold eagle or gold buffalo is, let alone a Philharmonic or Panda. Apples to apples: They'd be just as unlikely to recognize a silver American eagle. And a silver bar or round? Forget it. But they'd recognize a 1964 dime in a heartbeat.

Divisibility. This is critical. It's already roughly 1/10th, 1/4th, 1/2, and 1 oz increments. You don’t need to estimate, cut, and weigh a piece from a larger bar. And re-weigh and agree (or disagree) on the weight for each subsequent transaction. A silver dime is a silver dime this transaction and next transaction, and the next and the next.

C) Purity. The alloy and silver content are well known and it is hallmarked by one of the largest and best-known assayers in the world. The US mint’s product purity is unquestioned going back two centuries. The 90% silver, 10% copper ratio is tried, tested, proven and unchanged for 170 years.

D) Face value. Each piece is marked with a proportional face value relative to each other piece in the series. A half dollar contains twice as much silver and is therefore valued at twice as much as a quarter. It contains five times the silver of a dime, and is therefore valued at five times as much as a dime. No matter the circumstance--recession, depression, hyperinflation, inflation, deflation, 90% US silver has been, is currently, and always will be accepted by anyone taking US money in exchange for goods or services.

E) Numismatic value. Not every piece, not every grade--at least not yet. But there have been massive meltings in the last 40 years, and it’s becoming clear that 90% US silver is much more scarce than people credit. And early BU 90% is rare. Every day that passes, this becomes more true—its population decreases—not less true as with all newly minted bullion pieces whose population increases as more are made.

F) Low premium. 90% US silver doesn't usually carry a heavy premium relative to other forms of metals. It can still be found with no premium at all if you look for it. And even at today's premium, dimes, quarters, and halves don't carry anywhere near the premium that 1/10th or 1/4 eagles and buffalos do. Low premium (and recognition as previously mentioned) is the reason that pre ’64 US silver is superior to silver eagles.




G) Trustworthiness. Because of its small size, ease of recognition, and relatively low value per piece, 90% US silver is one of the least profitable and therefore least tempting targets for counterfeiters here and abroad. That’s not true of gold coins of any type. And silver and gold bars can and have been “drilled & filled” (drilled out, metal removed and filled with base metal). That’s virtually impossible and not cost effective for 90% US silver coins.

Additional thoughts: "We" the collectors, hoarders, etc., can tell instantly, with virtual certainty, if a 90% US silver coin is legit--no equipment necessary, no balance beam, no scratch test or water displacement. No filing, no loss of metal, no paying someone else and/or trusting someone else to test. We can do this by several sense tests that we always have with us.

We check visually:
US coin? Check.
Overall "look" right? Check.
Exact size correct? Check.
Pre '65 date? Check.
Full silver colored edge? Check.
No flaking, pitting, etc. that would indicate counterfeit? Check.

We check by touch:
Does it have the right heft--one that we've known for years? Check.
Does it have the right surface? Check.
Reeds all present, hasn't been shaved? Check.
Does its hardness feel correct? Check.

We check by sound. We know the sound a 90% US silver coin makes when it's rung or dropped.
Check check check.

All of these steps take less than an instant, we always have the equipment with us, and we trust the results. And if we can tell this easily with this degree of certainty, anyone can with practice. Not so with foreign coins, bars, or rounds.

It's no coincidence that these factors are there. They've all come about from literally thousands of years of testing, trial, and experimentation, representing untold billions of transactions. Every culture, every age. Weaknesses exploited by the most cunning criminals in the world, corrected, improved, tried, corrected, improved, etc. until they are as perfect as can be, where all of these factors function automatically without us even thinking about them.

Ultimately, for all of the above reasons, 90% US silver wins because of Gresham's Law and supply & demand. Because it's known, because it's recognized, because it's safe, because it's trusted, in whatever level of crisis where metals may be needed, 90% US silver will be the preferred medium of exchange. This preference will make it the most desirable, which will make it the most valuable, and so on and so on. And all of this will simultaneously lower the value of all other metals choices relative to 90% US silver.

Comparisons: Pre ’65 US 90% vs. other options

US Silver Eagles
Silver Eagles carry a heavy premium. They’re also far less recognized than 90%. And Eagles, at least as of writing, are not offered in pre-weighed sub-ounce units.

Silver bars
Silver bars are not universal in design. Even the largest manufacturers are unknown to the vast majority of the general population. They have virtually no numismatic value or even potential for numismatic value. Their lack of familiarity makes them a good target for counterfeiting. Their quality of assay is unknown. The larger bars are susceptible to drilling & filling, there are very few pieces available smaller than 1 oz.

Foreign silver coinage
Older circulating silver coinage is a hodge-podge of purities, weights, and dates. Modern silver 1-oz coinage (maples, pandas, libertads, etc) are far less well-known than silver eagles, which are far less well known as pre ’65 US 90%.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=707009&STARTPAGE=2

mkman123

Weiss took the words out of my mouth. We've had many discussions before about this, 90% is a good choice BUT diversity is good and always get what you like

Justacommeman

I always advise starting with 90% as your fulcrum and building from there. It's pretty seamless if you are buying from a respectable source. Any other form of silver requires some kind of learning curve. (premium's and collectibility permutations.........)

MJ

Baley

Yep, US 90% quarters, halves, and dimes, also morgan and peace dollars, and ASEs. Get a few hundred dollars face of those in your preferred ratios as a foundation before considering 1 oz bars, foreign issue, large bars, collectible premium bullion, and gimicky fun items like made-for-collectors novelties, replicas, etc.

Alternatively, you can collect all different smorgasbord and it's more interesting but it's more difficult to get back out of efficiently when the time comes for you to sell (and everyone eventually sells, or else they die with it and their heirs do.

tougregt

First off, Thank you for all of your reply's. What are ASE's that are refered too?
Thank's

Baley

American Silver Eagles, issued 1986-present, one ounce 999 silver, one dollar face value, sell for a dollar or two over silver spot price for normal bullion coins in bulk, and on up for individual coins, proofs, etc.

ksammut

Starting out. I agree with the others recommending 90%.

PerryHall

Weiss---Do you really think the average non-coin collector would recognize a well circulated silver Washington quarter as being anything special? I sure don't think so.

razzle

Ryk just posted an article from the WSJ which contains a nice set of investment options. You can find it on the coin forum under "mass inflation."

Weiss

<< <i>Weiss---Do you really think the average non-coin collector would recognize a well circulated silver Washington quarter as being anything special? I sure don't think so. >>



That's an excellent question and one of the most important reasons 90% should be used. Your question indicates you're looking at primarily a SHTF scenario. So in response; the short answer is yes.

The long answer is yes, for these and many other reasons:

1. The average non-coin collector will recognize a Washington quarter, silver or otherwise, way, way before they'd recognize a silver eagle, a maple, a kilo bar, or any other vehicle bar none. That's not just non-collectors in the US. It's non-collectors world-wide. Recognition and familiarity is incredibly important. Recognition is half the battle.

2. In a non-SHTF scenario, you're dealing with buyers and sellers who understand the ins and outs of all the various vehicles. But in a SHTF scenario, the only time that a non-coin collector needs to know what is and isn't silver, knowing a simple date as the identifier will be much easier than explaining who or what Silvertowne is versus the Perth mint, what the hell avoirdupois means vs. troy, how much a gram weighs, etc. Further, on 90% US silver coins, the rim is an additional identifier. The sound is an identifier.

3. I hinted at the psychological importance of recognition. In a SHTF scenario (again the only time non-collectors matter), the psychological comfort and understanding that an item of barter, be it a loaf of bread, a .22 round, or your life, is worth a silver dime, a silver quarter, or a thousand dollars in 90%, will make 90% the preferred vehicle of exchange. Ditto the fact that it's pre-divided.

Long and short: In a SHTF scenario, hungry, tired, exhausted, non-coin collectors will learn what is and isn't the good stuff or they'll die. That's a heck of a motivator. The path of least resistance is 90%. Gresham's law will make every non-coin collector an instant EXPERT in what's good and what's not good.

Justacommeman

<< <i>First off, Thank you for all of your reply's. What are ASE's that are refered too?
Thank's >>



Now that you know what ASE's are from Baley's reply they are the second type of silver you might consider IMHO. MJ

secondrepublic

90% is the best for another reason -- the lowest premiums over spot. Quite simply, you'll get more silver for your dollar.

Pokermandude

I recommend to silver stacking newbies to start with well-known government issued rounds such as Canadian Maples or American Eagles. Second in line would be generic 1 oz bars or rounds, followed by 10 oz bars, and then old silver coinage. Having the purity and weight right on the coin/bar is a huge asset. This makes them MUCH more liquid than coins which don't have that info. Even troy ounce increments as well, rather than having to divide by .72 (USA coinage), .77 (USA silver dollars), 0.6 (Canadian pre-67 coinage), 0.375 (Canadian 50% silver coinage), etc.

I completely agree that the average non-coin collector has no clue that our money used to be silver. Some even think our money is actually still made of silver...

daOnlyBG

I recently spoke with a man over the phone recently. He sent me a free Mercury dime and war nickel as courtesy for considering his business. His competitive advantage in dealing silver is that he charges ridiculously small premiums. Yesterday he called me and offered me $0.25 premiums on silver US coins, and I haven't even bought anything from him yet (I'm waiting for silver to drop down a bit). Check the guy out- "Silver State Deal Company" from Las Vegas, NV. I can't attest to his service, obviously, but his offer does seem worth looking into.

Justacommeman

<< <i>I recently spoke with a man over the phone recently. He sent me a free Mercury dime and war nickel as courtesy for considering his business. His competitive advantage in dealing silver is that he charges ridiculously small premiums. Yesterday he called me and offered me $0.25 premiums on silver US coins, and I haven't even bought anything from him yet (I'm waiting for silver to drop down a bit). Check the guy out- "Silver State Deal Company" from Las Vegas, NV. I can't attest to his service, obviously, but his offer does seem worth looking into. >>



I'm suspicious. I'm generally not. Someone set me straight if I'm wrong. MJ

Weiss

<< <i>90% is the best for another reason -- the lowest premiums over spot. Quite simply, you'll get more silver for your dollar. >>



Indeed. See #F in my world famous diatribe

OPA

<< <i>

<< <i>I recently spoke with a man over the phone recently. He sent me a free Mercury dime and war nickel as courtesy for considering his business. His competitive advantage in dealing silver is that he charges ridiculously small premiums. Yesterday he called me and offered me $0.25 premiums on silver US coins, and I haven't even bought anything from him yet (I'm waiting for silver to drop down a bit). Check the guy out- "Silver State Deal Company" from Las Vegas, NV. I can't attest to his service, obviously, but his offer does seem worth looking into. >>



I'm suspicious. I'm generally not. Someone set me straight if I'm wrong. MJ >>



There's a sucker born every minute...Caveat Emptor

Overdate

<< <i>90% is the best for another reason -- the lowest premiums over spot. Quite simply, you'll get more silver for your dollar. >>


War nickels?

carew4me

Rolls of Silver Eagles, no doubt.

Fool proof.

I have seen dealers attempt low ball (its dirty, its worn) and other BS with %90 to lower the face offering.

tneig

To original poster:
90% dimes and quarters are a great way to start out on your learning path! www.coinflation.com can tell you the value at any time and they even have phone apps to help you while out at some sellers. If 90% dimes and quarters were all you ever did, you would do well.

To all regarding trading in an emergency (non-dollar collapse):
- The majority of people, know little to nothing about this topic. This market is a much smaller-set then I had realized and in an emergency situation they won't take a chance on unknown taking silver for trade for some other item such as food, bullets, gas, etc. The gold side of the general public sells to a 'We Buy Gold shop' because it is all they know. None of my friends even want to hear about it, let alone want to trade silver for goods (or viceversa) in an emergency. A year ago I had no knowledge of such and I wouldn't have traded anything for silver or gold for concern of being tricked or con'ed. In an emergency, I'd charge a $1000 face value bag of 90% for a box of my bullets or food. If I was trying to trade my silver out, I'd expect a hard and dangerous time getting value, and be heavily locked and loaded every second. A knowledgeable stacker/collector isn't going to cough over their stuff easily for a poor deal and since more aware, may not be willing to give up a single thing, silver/gold or food or water or bullets. Likely do better with gold in small known amounts. Gold likely has a bit more appeal and more widely known, where they may be more accepting and taking a chance (greed).

-------You need a market and a system in place and be able to be savy in that market. The one now has enough caveats, and wouldn't take much to rock it. -Yet, I continue to stack. hah This concerns me as I have no local network around me of other known stackers and its a difficult situation between finding them and over exposure.

s4ny

My recommendation is 1 oz American Silver Eagles and 90% silver US coins.

In the 90% silver, I prefer Franklin 50c because they are all the same silver content.
You don't have to know anything else. Look at the Kennedy 50c coins: 1964 is
90%, then 40%, then clad, well except for certain proofs.

Franklins wear well too, most of the ones you get will contain 99% of their original
silver or more. Walkers started in 1916 and some of them are pretty thin.

Why bother with anything else?

jmski52

If TSHTF, there will be alot of people who become instant experts in silver, practically overnight. For some, the learning curve will be painful.

s4ny

<< <i>If TSHTF, there will be alot of people who become instant experts in silver, practically overnight. For some, the learning curve will be painful. >>



It would be interesting. There would be instant deflation as paper money and bank balances are devalued.
Pennies, nickels, US silver coins, and gold would be money. The more recognizable the better. Guns and ammo would
be very valuable.

It would not be fun. A large part of the NY metro area lost power when Sandy hit at the end of October.
Stores were quickly out of water and gas stations closed. Gas cans with 5 gallons of gas were selling for $100.
If that kept your generator going for 2 days it was worth it. It wasn't even very cold, getting up to 60 during the day.

derryb

Forget SHTF, that should not be your reason for stacking. If it is, I'm afraid you might get disappointed.

jmski52

Forget SHTF

Then again, SHTF really depends on how you define it. I think we're there already, and we've been conditioned to ignore it until it directly affects our own situations. 'nuf said.

Baley

<< <i>Forget SHTF

Then again, SHTF really depends on how you define it. I think we're there already, and we've been conditioned to ignore it until it directly affects our own situations. 'nuf said. >>



Heh, it sure does depend on how you define it then. If "we're there already" by your definition, then when were we NOT? specific dates please (this ought to be good)

jmski52

If "we're there already" by your definition, then when were we NOT? specific dates please (this ought to be good)

Aw, Baley. Ok, if I must. I got my concealed carry permit about 4 years ago. Until then, I never saw a need. Maybe it was 5 years ago. Either way, that's about when I called it.

Every time I have some money accumulated, I keep asking myself - "is it time to get back into the American Enterprise System via common stocks?" And I have to ask myself, "Well punk, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?"

And then I have to buy some more precious metals.

tougregt

TSHTF.........Stands for ?

Gambinotdx

<< <i>TSHTF.........Stands for ? >>



I took it as The [poop] hits the fan.

tougregt

Ok, Sorry I goofed here.