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Reason not to buy ANACS coins in old white holders

rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
This 1861-S half dollar came to me via eBay several years ago. I think I paid $360 or so for it, and it's a real "super slider" with full luster and MS details. Prices have risen dramatically, and PCGS AU58 examples of these have auctioned from $1,300 to $1,700+ lately, so it was time to give it a shot at crossing. I decided to crack it out and submit raw, and found two small but noticeable rim hits on it on the reverse at 12:00. Good luck seeing those with the white plastic. There was just no sign. The coin is at PCGS presently, and I should be able to post the grade soon, but please feel free to make a guess.

Just in case you're not convinced, check out my chain cent. Raw, and in its old ANACS holder. Coin has a large number of (intentional looking) rim nicks, and they're less visible in the plastic. I submitted this one myself, so there will be no surprise upon cracking it, unless I decide to deceive the next owner.

For those of you who complain when PCGS won't cross an old ANACS coin, here's one possible reason. Graders don't have X-ray vision and can't see the rims through white plastic. I used to trust the old ANACS grading and consider it equal to PCGS standards, but it is clear that some people used ANACS as a way to hide rim issues with no disclosure at resale.

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Comments

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>...but it is clear that some people used ANACS as a way to hide rim issues with no disclosure at resale. >>



    Not sure what you mean. Doesn't any non-prong holder "hide" most of the rims? And how could submitter's use ANACS as a way to hide problem coins? Did the submitters think (know?) ANACS would slab their problem coins as problem free because their slabs might cover the problem? I'm not following you here.
  • s4nys4ny Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭
    I sold all my ANACs coins, only have PCGS and NGC now.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    62
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,758 ✭✭✭✭

    What if the coin comes back MS62 from PCGS?


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,758 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.
    62
    . >>




    Beat me to it.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lets wait and see what PCGS has to say..BEFORE any neg comments are made in error.

    like an error coin...image
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mostly PCGS a few NGC !!! image
    Timbuk3
  • what is the anacs grade of the chain ?
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  • << <i>what is the anacs grade of the chain ? >>



    If it's not a details grade I call BS. Unless it magically picked up the active PVC after being cracked out.
    Specialist in Lincoln Cents, Toned Type, and Slab enthusiast.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    thats a pretty coin!
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

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  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have always found that the old white anacs holdered coins were the BEST at crossing over to PCGS. Many times at a higher grade. Much better than ngc and the others.

    I guess it is possible that anacs either missed the rim hits or thought that they were too minor to affect a problem free grade.

    JMHO
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,694 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that my experience with OWH's was great for Lincoln's with more cross overs and upgrades than down grades and only one DNC. That half will upgrade, But it is a shame about the chain cent. A few rim nicks would not bother PCGS as they are VERY lenient on circulated large cents, ( just look at my set!) but that is obviously messed with intentionally. So I would not stop getting OWH just yet.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I'm getting old, but I thought you had said something about the Chain Cent you posted after the 1861-S half dollar.

    So far as the rims on that piece, I can't see when the holder was hiding anything. The rim problems are obvious in both cases.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a MS61-62 piece. I agree I would think the rim hits would of been visible even in the holder.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i dont know about the grade but i do like the seated half. nice coin image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The images of the '61-S half don't present any evidence of what you are concerned about, and the surface damage on the Chain cent obverse would preclude any issue with the rims. I don't follow your point here. I only see one insignificant rim nick adjacent to star 12 on the half.

    Conversely, the depression on Liberty's throat of the Chain cent is already significant enough to make the rim damage seem secondary.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com



  • << <i>Looks like a MS61-62 piece. I agree I would think the rim hits would of been visible even in the holder. >>


    image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The images of the '61-S half don't present any evidence of what you are concerned about, and the surface damage on the Chain cent obverse would preclude any issue with the rims. I don't follow your point here. I only see one insignificant rim nick adjacent to star 12 on the half.

    Conversely, the depression on Liberty's throat of the Chain cent is already significant enough to make the rim damage seem secondary. >>



    It's Chain Cent. So long as one these is "still breathing" the graders often ignore a lot. Given the grade, none of the marks bother me on the Chain Cent so long as it isn't graded any higher than Good.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,254 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Looks like a MS61-62 piece. I agree I would think the rim hits would of been visible even in the holder. >>


    image >>

    Ditto.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I see the rim issue on the half and have no problem with it at AU grade as it is not severe enough to be considered damage IMO.
    It's supposed to be "About" Uncirculated IMO.
  • sniocsusniocsu Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭
    We should wait on the word from PCGS
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree I would think the rim hits would of been visible even in the holder.


    No. I am aware of the rim problem issue, and I went all the way around the rim with a loupe before cracking. I was totally shocked when I found two fairly significant dings that were not visible in the plastic.

    What if the coin comes back MS62 from PCGS?

    Then I will have a coin that is worth the same as an AU58, possibly less. image

    If it's not a details grade I call BS. Unless it magically picked up the active PVC after being cracked out.

    Chain is "VG details, net G4" or something like that. But there is no PVC. There is some light corrosion.

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