Unfortunately I think there is a very high probability that is the case.
This type of activity is making it very difficult to navigate the auction market.
Mike mailed me the Jesse Ventura with an apology letter and I have since mailed the card back as I have no interest in taking it.
If indeed the under bidder was a legit bid had they bid $1 more they would have potentially paid $1,500 more for this card just because of the zero feedback bidder in question.
I personally believe that this kind of activity if it persists will be very bad for Rick's business as it is a huge turn off and I think it would be wise that he makes an effort to curtail it.
It may be happening elsewhere too but it is happening constantly with his auctions. Maybe it is an issue that he has too many, I don't know but I could see an environment where he looses customers and since he is a business minded person I think protecting his franchise is worth a great deal more then some pumped up auction prices.
I think it is fair to say that someone is not really sorry...........
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Weren't you a little suspicious of the one box that had none that it could have been searched due to collating?
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
The seller in Cyprus has been where all of the product I am aware of came from and he had a lot of it and I feel very confident he could have easily began searching the boxes after the Tyson card blew up.
He listed quite a few raw Tyson's and I purchased a number of them.
In the first box I got both of the Tyson packs were identical and I remember others being identical as well. The packs are sequenced like a lot of product is and if you simply wrote down the stickers you got from each pack it would be extremely easy to search a box.
The packs are easy to see through if held up to the light.
I would stay clear of the box listed on ebay, u can clearly see it as been taped up again, and with dpeck stating how easy it can be to spot the Tyson and with the fact the seller has an psa 9 Tyson listed points in the direction it has been tampered with
<< <i>I think what hurts Ali cards is that I don't see a clear cut rookie. There is the 1960 Hemmets. 65 lampo and the 66 panini. I can see a case for any of the 3 >>
Hey Simon. That's my box - and the PSA 9 is a card i bought from DPeck! I'm not particularly interested in selling either (hence the high BINs), just testing the waters a bit given the recent sale. It's one of the 'older' boxes from the same Cyprus seller from long before he started playing games.
oops, sorry, i got confused there DPeck. the PSA 9 was from big80s, not you. Although, I did crack out the PSA 7 from you and it's at PSA as we speak. that was (is) a solid card. hoping for a straight 8 on it.
That one came from the seller in Cyprus and I thought it looked nice. It was definately strong for a PSA 7.
I have some Tyson cards at PSA now too. I sent in the foil sticker and a few others. Nothing too major as the foil sticker won't grade high but I want one in a PSA holder.
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan >>
Alan, Dpeck, Cincyredlegs, as well as Probstein will verify the sale. It's a first for this card, and I can see it going higher if it ever comes to market again.
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan >>
Alan, Dpeck, Cincyredlegs, as well as Probstein will verify the sale. It's a first for this card, and I can see it going higher if it ever comes to market again. >>
Mike, it is my OPINION (and again, it is only my opinion), that IF (and if you say it did, it did) it sold for $5,000, it only did so because the value of the card was artificially inflated because of the results of the recent ebay auction. I hope both parties are happy with the sale.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
This type of card is really hard to value. There are 5 PSA 10's in total from both variations.
If someome is willing to pay $100,000 for a BGS 10 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan to me it is easy to see how someone would pay $5,000 for this.
I have routinely said that if a 1982 Wrestling All Stars Hulk Hogan PSA 10 ever surfaces it is easily a $5,000 card and I am sure there would be many that would be shocked if it happened. But that would not change the outcome.
There are tons of modern insert cards that sell for prices that are viewed by most as insane but it keeps happening year after year.
I see this situation as no different.
Mike had the guts to pull the trigger when it first surfaced and was rewarded for it.
I was just making a post about this card elsewhere and looked at the bidding activity for the first time. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the last legitimate bid in the ebay auction was
a***a (410) $1,222.32
Look at the bidding activity under him and compare it to the bidding activity higher than him. Under him represents exactly how people bidding in an ebay auction bid. But above him? Looks more like someone trying to get the auction price to certain price points -- $1500, 2000, 2500, 5000. The other prop bidder is going $2200, 2900, 3500. I'm not rounding up, they both bid exactly in either 500 increments or exact hundred increments.
If the supposed off-line sale for $5k is legitimate (and that's a big IF), then someone got taken behind the woodshed. A fool and his money....
I do think there was an attempt to fool the market that this was a $5000 card and then capitalized with a "legit" sale that did not know the "suspicious" activity that took place but that is just me.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
nah, there were at least 3 immediate legit bidders for the last PSA 10 at $2k, so the market is higher. a $5k sale might have happened, but the auction itself was def. sleazytimes.
Fair market value is what someone is willing to pay and what some is willing to sell at. If the seller didn't want to sell for less than 5k and shilled his auction.... Or does it with a legit reserve. But no one was willing to pay 5k then it wouldn't have sold. Conversely, if a person was only willing to pay 4999 but the seller was not willing to sell at the price then it wouldn't have sold... Shilling or bids from buyers who dont pay are annoying and I see the frustration... But if you are willing to pay x for something then set your snipe x+3.33 and hope for the best.. For all we know the buyer could have started at 2k and went back and forth with seller up to 5k. I highly doubt he just threw 5k out there given all the data that is available on eBay ect...
Edit... I didn't mean to insinuate shilling took place in this auction.. I got this thread and some other ones mixed up.
I've made over a thousand purchases on ebay, there's zero doubt in my mind that I've been shilled. It is what it is. If I know I'm being shilled I just don't buy from that seller again.
However, in this case, I don't think we're looking at a legitimate buyer being shilled in the conventional sense. It appears more like two parties bidding each other up with no intention of fulfilling their end of the deal in order to create an inflated selling point which would be referenced in the future for other sales.
Thanks. How do we know what it sold for and how many people were in on it at any particular price? The auction ended early, never getting above the OB of $0.01.
I heard a story once from a friend of mine (and i use the term "friend" pretty loosely, as he was more like an acquaintance) that used to sell used cars. While the particular details of the story escape me (exact $ amount, year/make/model of the car), here is the gist of the story:
Guy comes on the lot, looking for a car. Walks the whole lot and doesn't really see anything he likes. My friend doesn't want him to leave, so he walks him around back to see what might have just come in, that might not have been priced yet. There the guy finds the used car of his dreams. He absolutely has to have it, and asks my friend, "How much?" My friend is clueless, and he's been taught to never say the first number because then he loses the negotiation. Unsure of what to do next, my buddy excuses himself to "go inside to get the keys." When he gets inside, he asks a couple of other salesmen what they think/what to do/where to price the car. None of them know, but they come up with an idea: start a bidding war. So they hatch a plan. One of them grabs a wad of cash from the safe and goes outside and pretends to be another customer looking for a car. Meanwhile my friend takes the keys and goes back outside to re-join the mark, excuse me, I mean "customer." As my friend and the customer are checking out the car, the other salesman (now pretending to be a customer looking to buy a car) walks up to my friend and the real customer, flashes his wad of cash (mind you, the money isn't even his, it's the lot owners $ from the safe!), and asks, "how much?" Right there, on the lot, a bidding war ensues. $1500, $2000, $5000, etc. Bidding gets up to something crazy. The salesman/customer counts every bit of the cash he has (the $ he took from the safe and his own $) and makes one last offer. Let's just say the offer was $16,456 for sake of telling the story. Real customer is caught up in the moment, and the excitement of the bidding war, thinks about it for maybe a second, and says, "$17,000." SOLD! A couple of hours later, the owner walks on the lot, finds the unpriced car missing, and asks his sales staff where the car is. My friend tells him he sold it (and also the story about HOW they sold it). The lot owner starts laughing hysterically. My friend is confused, and asks the owner why he's laughing. Owner replies, "I would have taken $10,000!!!"
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
<< <i>he independently confirmed to both me and Dpeck about the price, and we both would have paid that, if not more. for a nice 10, i'll pay 2k anytime. >>
Jason - did you consider the card that sold to be "a nice 10"? I thought it was interesting because it was a UK back, and I agree that a nice 10 could go high - but I felt due to the L/R centering of this card, it was not something I'd consider gem mint. Just my opinion.
Now if a UK backed PSA 10 comes along that's dead centered - I can see that legitimately reaching the $3K range.
Comments
This type of activity is making it very difficult to navigate the auction market.
Mike mailed me the Jesse Ventura with an apology letter and I have since mailed the card back as I have no interest in taking it.
If indeed the under bidder was a legit bid had they bid $1 more they would have potentially paid $1,500 more for this card just because of the zero feedback bidder in question.
I personally believe that this kind of activity if it persists will be very bad for Rick's business as it is a huge turn off and I think it would be wise that he makes an effort to curtail it.
It may be happening elsewhere too but it is happening constantly with his auctions. Maybe it is an issue that he has too many, I don't know but I could see an environment where he looses customers and since he is a business minded person I think protecting his franchise is worth a great deal more then some pumped up auction prices.
BTW I grew up with Stampede Wrestling and was often back stage with Owen Hart, Jason etc as a kid. Did they ever produce any sets?
I still remember wondering, why do they let a guy wear a goalie mask in the ring haha!
If so they are not on any of the wrestling trading card checklist sites.
Ebay wizards start your investigation
Link
Very interesting (aka: suspicious).
Jeff
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
Nice score!
Anybody eyeing up the full box for $1900 on Ebay? I know nothing of these boxes, 100 packs? cards per pack?
I opened two boxes. One had two Tyson's and the other had none.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
The seller in Cyprus has been where all of the product I am aware of came from and he had a lot of it and I feel very confident he could have easily began searching the boxes after the Tyson card blew up.
He listed quite a few raw Tyson's and I purchased a number of them.
In the first box I got both of the Tyson packs were identical and I remember others being identical as well. The packs are sequenced like a lot of product is and if you simply wrote down the stickers you got from each pack it would be extremely easy to search a box.
The packs are easy to see through if held up to the light.
<< <i>I think what hurts Ali cards is that I don't see a clear cut rookie. There is the 1960 Hemmets. 65 lampo and the 66 panini. I can see a case for any of the 3 >>
I am firmly in the 1960 Hemmets camp.
That one came from the seller in Cyprus and I thought it looked nice. It was definately strong for a PSA 7.
I have some Tyson cards at PSA now too. I sent in the foil sticker and a few others. Nothing too major as the foil sticker won't grade high but I want one in a PSA holder.
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan
<< <i>
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan >>
Alan, Dpeck, Cincyredlegs, as well as Probstein will verify the sale. It's a first for this card, and I can see it going higher if it ever comes to market again.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
I did not want to write that but since he said I could verify it I will.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just wanted to follow up on the Tyson RC PSA 10 that I had end last week. The person with zero feedback never paid(not suprising) and it was put up for $6,500 as a BIN. It was just sold offline for 5K to a non bidder on the card.
I think this is epic for boxing and for this card. There is a huge demand for this Tyson RC card and only see it continuing to go up in value, as there is little to no product out there.
Mike >>
Am I the only one having a hard time believing this?
-Alan >>
Alan, Dpeck, Cincyredlegs, as well as Probstein will verify the sale. It's a first for this card, and I can see it going higher if it ever comes to market again. >>
Mike, it is my OPINION (and again, it is only my opinion), that IF (and if you say it did, it did) it sold for $5,000, it only did so because the value of the card was artificially inflated because of the results of the recent ebay auction. I hope both parties are happy with the sale.
If someome is willing to pay $100,000 for a BGS 10 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan to me it is easy to see how someone would pay $5,000 for this.
I have routinely said that if a 1982 Wrestling All Stars Hulk Hogan PSA 10 ever surfaces it is easily a $5,000 card and I am sure there would be many that would be shocked if it happened. But that would not change the outcome.
There are tons of modern insert cards that sell for prices that are viewed by most as insane but it keeps happening year after year.
I see this situation as no different.
Mike had the guts to pull the trigger when it first surfaced and was rewarded for it.
Nice going.
I think I am going to watch Glengarry Glen Ross now.
What does it mean?
I nterest
D ecision
A ction
The movie is much more vulgar.
<< <i>Mike PM'ed me a copy of the email from Rick.
I did not want to write that but since he said I could verify it I will. >>
+1
T206 Set - 300/524
check it out Dpeck, a good film.
a***a (410) $1,222.32
Look at the bidding activity under him and compare it to the bidding activity higher than him. Under him represents exactly how people bidding in an ebay auction bid. But above him? Looks more like someone trying to get the auction price to certain price points -- $1500, 2000, 2500, 5000. The other prop bidder is going $2200, 2900, 3500. I'm not rounding up, they both bid exactly in either 500 increments or exact hundred increments.
If the supposed off-line sale for $5k is legitimate (and that's a big IF), then someone got taken behind the woodshed. A fool and his money....
Arthur
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Arthur
Edit... I didn't mean to insinuate shilling took place in this auction.. I got this thread and some other ones mixed up.
However, in this case, I don't think we're looking at a legitimate buyer being shilled in the conventional sense. It appears more like two parties bidding each other up with no intention of fulfilling their end of the deal in order to create an inflated selling point which would be referenced in the future for other sales.
<< <i>Miklia, do you have a link for that past auction? I'd be curious to take a look at the bidding activity. Thanks
Arthur >>
it's the one at the start of this thread...
Arthur
Arthur
Guy comes on the lot, looking for a car. Walks the whole lot and doesn't really see anything he likes. My friend doesn't want him to leave, so he walks him around back to see what might have just come in, that might not have been priced yet. There the guy finds the used car of his dreams. He absolutely has to have it, and asks my friend, "How much?" My friend is clueless, and he's been taught to never say the first number because then he loses the negotiation. Unsure of what to do next, my buddy excuses himself to "go inside to get the keys." When he gets inside, he asks a couple of other salesmen what they think/what to do/where to price the car. None of them know, but they come up with an idea: start a bidding war. So they hatch a plan. One of them grabs a wad of cash from the safe and goes outside and pretends to be another customer looking for a car. Meanwhile my friend takes the keys and goes back outside to re-join the mark, excuse me, I mean "customer." As my friend and the customer are checking out the car, the other salesman (now pretending to be a customer looking to buy a car) walks up to my friend and the real customer, flashes his wad of cash (mind you, the money isn't even his, it's the lot owners $ from the safe!), and asks, "how much?" Right there, on the lot, a bidding war ensues. $1500, $2000, $5000, etc. Bidding gets up to something crazy. The salesman/customer counts every bit of the cash he has (the $ he took from the safe and his own $) and makes one last offer. Let's just say the offer was $16,456 for sake of telling the story. Real customer is caught up in the moment, and the excitement of the bidding war, thinks about it for maybe a second, and says, "$17,000." SOLD! A couple of hours later, the owner walks on the lot, finds the unpriced car missing, and asks his sales staff where the car is. My friend tells him he sold it (and also the story about HOW they sold it). The lot owner starts laughing hysterically. My friend is confused, and asks the owner why he's laughing. Owner replies, "I would have taken $10,000!!!"
<< <i>he independently confirmed to both me and Dpeck about the price, and we both would have paid that, if not more. for a nice 10, i'll pay 2k anytime. >>
Jason - did you consider the card that sold to be "a nice 10"? I thought it was interesting because it was a UK back, and I agree that a nice 10 could go high - but I felt due to the L/R centering of this card, it was not something I'd consider gem mint. Just my opinion.
Now if a UK backed PSA 10 comes along that's dead centered - I can see that legitimately reaching the $3K range.
Jeff
my snipe was 1515 - i wouldn't consider the last 10 to have been a 'nice 10', but it was solid. I agree with your assessment.
<< <i>Hey Jeff - $17,000, easily!
my snipe was 1515 - i wouldn't consider the last 10 to have been a 'nice 10', but it was solid. I agree with your assessment. >>
Thanks! It took me a while to come up with, err, I mean, "remember" it.
Should be an interesting one to watch..