BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I do not consider him to be an all time great but everyone knows who he is and is drawn to him and for a period of time he absolutely captured the attention of America....and those are the reasons why I think he is a good investment. >>
I think Tyson is universally considered a top 20 heavyweight, and some put him in the top 10. I guess "all time great" is subjective, but to me, he fits the bill.
<< <i>I do not consider him to be an all time great but everyone knows who he is and is drawn to him and for a period of time he absolutely captured the attention of America....and those are the reasons why I think he is a good investment. >>
I think Tyson is universally considered a top 20 heavyweight, and some put him in the top 10. I guess "all time great" is subjective, but to me, he fits the bill. >>
w-o-w. 5k? if it's legit, boxing cards will do quite well over the next few years. I've seen quite a few other HOF RCs jumping up in price lately too.
edit to add - Tyson's generally considered a top 50 of all time, and certainly a top 20 in terms of a boxer in his prime, career potential, and (as noted above) cultural cache. this card's price is certainly due as much to the last element as the first two. he just flamed out too quickly to be considered a lock top-20 all-time as a boxer.
if it was a shill bid...if...it's a pretty hilarious fail to bid the exact same amount as a (presumably) legit bidder. a penny less, and we're not wondering if it's legit.
If anything this auction proves that this Tyson card is a monster.
I was watching it live and when it started to pop with the zero feedback bidder and the pattern of bids unfortunately the first thing I thought of was Mike.
yeah, it's odd. if you decide you need to get 5k for it, why not just put it up yourself as a BIN? it makes no sense. I would much rather have seen a legit 3500 sale - which it looks like it would have done. you're right Dpeck, it's a monster.
There's no way the zero feedback bidder is legit. I like boxing cards as much as the next person - and a sale like this would be great for them in general - but let's be honest, no one is paying $5K for this card.
This is an amazing sale if its real. I have my doubts though. It's a great card but I wouldn't expect 5k. Based on this Ali rookies should trade at 10 k or higher. Hopefully this gives. Push to the rest of the boxing sector
I should add - I truly do hope this sale is legit. There's just a lot of red flags for me, having followed this card a lot. I will say this - the UK version in a PSA 10 is a very tough card.
<< <i>Based on this Ali rookies should trade at 10 k or higher. >>
The Ali is a pop 2 at PSA 9 and pop zero PSA 10. If a pop 1 PSA 10 ever gets graded, it might hit 25k+, to be honest. There's a few bigtime Ali collectors with deep pockets who know how rare it would ever be to get it a pop 2. That said, I think that this card is high on price and cut short on the bottom. will be interesting to see if it sells.
I think what hurts Ali cards is that I don't see a clear cut rookie. There is the 1960 Hemmets. 65 lampo and the 66 panini. I can see a case for any of the 3
There's also the '64 Simon Chocolates Ali that a few guys like too. Thankfully, the 71 Barrats is now almost totally out of the running.
But I don't think that the discussion hurts the value at all actually - the debate adds interest, and hardcore collectors will get all of them anyway. It certainly hasn't hurt the value of the 52 mantle or 86 jordan, neither of which are the 'true rookie card'.
Personally, I don't know if there will ever be enough Lampos surfacing to give it the critical mass needed to make it 'the' rookie to own, and the 1960 date for the hemmets is a big draw, as is the fact that high-grade copies actually exist for purchasing. As of now, the market likes it as the rookie.
My memory is a little fuzzy so my apologies if I'm wrong, but isn't miconlegacy the member that got caught shilling a fellow board member or something?
The number of boxing cards that would go over $10k right now in an auction is pretty low. Off the top of my head, the only cards I think would have a shot (without shills) are any '48 Leaf Graziano, the E125 Jack Johnson, that's probably it. Maybe a Kopec Jack Johnson but even that might be a stretch right now. Not to mention that the Hemmetts Cassius Clay is handcut and readily available so it's just a matter of time before the pop report grows.
With this Tyson, I think we're looking at one legit bidder that put in a gotta-have-it bid and two nonlegit bidders that bid it up all week.
I'm a big proponent of "collect what you like" but this ending price seems so far from a realistic value for this card that I wouldn't be surprised if it does more harm than good.
the guy with zero feedback hasn't paid yet, needless to say, I'm holding off paying the consignor until this one plays out... I had another guy with zero feedback win and pay for the jeter rc last night and he paid real-time ....
<< <i>the guy with zero feedback hasn't paid yet, needless to say, I'm holding off paying the consignor until this one plays out... I had another guy with zero feedback win and pay for the jeter rc last night and he paid real-time .... >>
In this case the consignor gets the card returned to him ???
Do you keep track of consignors that get non-paying bidders ?
In this case the consignor gets the card returned to him ??? yes, or we do a second chance offer if they consignor wants, we only do this after this first buyer declines
Do you keep track of consignors that get non-paying bidders ? yes, because I typically cash flow everyone before I'm paid in full...
this one I noticed cause of the thread , so I'm gonna withhold payment... normally, I would have paid him today
<< <i>The number of boxing cards that would go over $10k right now in an auction is pretty low. Off the top of my head, the only cards I think would have a shot (without shills) are any '48 Leaf Graziano, the E125 Jack Johnson, that's probably it. Maybe a Kopec Jack Johnson but even that might be a stretch right now. Not to mention that the Hemmetts Cassius Clay is handcut and readily available so it's just a matter of time before the pop report grows.. >>
I'd pay 10k for a pop 1 PSA 10 Hemmets ali right now in a second if you had one, but more to flip than to hold. That will be a massive card. although the pop report will grow, it's a tougher card than many think, due to scuffs and that printer spot.
Agree on the leaf graziano, a ultra high grade 87 A&G sullivan or nice 1887 N174 Fitzsimmons might get there too, if it ever surfaces.
Rick, what do you do in a case where you pay the consignor the next day and the winner never pays you?
if its an established consignor, then I pay them right away and deal with it afterwards...
if its a new consignor, I review the data and if it looks normal, I pay right away, if the sales look super high , then I wait to pay,
I've only had to wait 3 times in the last six months, and all 3 paid eventually...one was a RG3 rookie that sold like crazy and they buyer never left feedback
<< <i>Rick, what do you do in a case where you pay the consignor the next day and the winner never pays you?
if its an established consignor, then I pay them right away and deal with it afterwards...
if its a new consignor, I review the data and if it looks normal, I pay right away, if the sales look super high , then I wait to pay,
I've only had to wait 3 times in the last six months, and all 3 paid eventually...one was a RG3 rookie that sold like crazy and they buyer never left feedback >>
I can vouch for this, he is super quick on paying cosignors.
I was talking about cards that actually exist, not theoretical cards.
A PSA 8 N28 Sullivan sold for $3400 at the height of boxing card prices in 2007, another one sold for much less in 2009. A PSA 7 N174 Gypsy Queen Sullivan sold for $3000 last year. Of the boxing cards known to exist, I think there's 2 or 3 that would eclipse $10k. If we expand that to all cards known to exist and in the highest theoretical grade I'm not sure that would enlarge the list at $10k, nevermind at $25k. The number of collectors that would be bidding on a boxing card at $25k would be small and I don't believe they'd care that a 1960 Hemmetts Clay has been graded a 10 instead of an 8.
A bgs 8.5 lampo sold for 8k. I don't know what variation that was though. I think a psa 10 lampo with the text back could come close to 10k. I really wish smr would do an article on Cassius clay cards. I think there are a lot if people out there that just don't know about it. Many people might still consider the 71 card his rookie. The registry folks could also bid up a psa 9 of 10 66 Valida panini.
<< <i>I was talking about cards that actually exist, not theoretical cards.
A PSA 8 N28 Sullivan sold for $3400 at the height of boxing card prices in 2007, another one sold for much less in 2009. A PSA 7 N174 Gypsy Queen Sullivan sold for $3000 last year. Of the boxing cards known to exist, I think there's 2 or 3 that would eclipse $10k. If we expand that to all cards known to exist and in the highest theoretical grade I'm not sure that would enlarge the list at $10k, nevermind at $25k. The number of collectors that would be bidding on a boxing card at $25k would be small and I don't believe they'd care that a 1960 Hemmetts Clay has been graded a 10 instead of an 8. >>
THIS is verbatim how I feel; specifically the last bit about the number of collectors willing to fork over $25k for ANY boxing card, let alone the Hemmetts Clay. The Hemmetts Clay just isn't that desirable. Back when I was actively collecting boxing cards, the Clay/Ali card I wanted to add most was the Lampo. Second would be a (I believe it was called) Devito version of the Lampo card (RC, correct me if I am wrong). The few guys I know with silly money to spend on boxing cards have either stopped collecting altogether, or are still hunting for obscure South American issues. The registry is a mighty powerful drug, but not so powerful as to make someone shell out $25k for a Hemmetts Clay. (Of course, this is only my opinion and I have definitley been wrong before.)
Edited to add: now, if it was a panama al brown card, then we could talk five figures lol
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
I have been arguably the most optimistic on the Mike Tyson Panini sticker since June of 2010 and this is the card that brought me to the PSA message board. I did a Google search looking for more info on the card and found a thread that had a post about me and another board member Eagles33 and I signed up to post.
This sale most likely won't go through at this price but I think it will certainly sell in the $2,500 range and that is still a strong number. It may go higher but that is a number that could happen for sure if brokered right.
This is another platinum rookie card from the non major sports area that is a must own.
Most will never pick up collecting lots of boxing cards but an Iron Mike Rookie Card is awesome.
When people come to my condo they think the wrestling cards are cool because of my excitement and the nostalgia but the Mike Tyson Panini grabs people.
It is an awesome card and it is going to stay an expensive card.
I have said it many times but the supply is too low relative to the potential size of the market. There are going to be some shocking selling prices of these going forward I still believe.
Dpeck, I remember that auction. It was when I first started picking up cards from sports other than the big 4. There was very little interest in most of the cards I was buying... I waited a while before a Tyson popped up on eBay.. I thought I could get it for about 25 bucks and was shocked about tge bidding war we were in. I think I lost it around 80 bucks. Back then they were still available on some random sites. I ended up getting one for about 25 bucks but unfortunately it only graded psa 3. I didn't bother looking to upgrade at the time because I wasn't really concerned about condition for my personal collection but wish I did now. I regret that and not buying more from 82 wrestling cards from Wrestlingprints.com now
<< <i>This is another platinum rookie card from the non major sports area that is a must own. >>
I like the Panini Tyson card. I think it will be a popular card among modern boxing collectors as we see the younger generation that started to collect and follow sports in the 80s branch out to boxing cards. It also helps that there really isn't much in the form of modern boxing cards to get excited about and compete with it. Tyson certainly had and still has a certain charm to him that many people are drawn to. Is it a "must own?" I suppose if you collect Tyson it is. But 90% of my collection is boxing cards and the only reason I own one is because I picked a beater up cheap. But if you collect Tyson and have the funds, I say go for whatever it is you like. If you really want to own a PSA 10 Panini Tyson then, by all means, pay as much as you're comfortable paying to get one. But to speculate on it and invest in it for purely monetary gain is a fool's errand.
I've learned a lot since I start collecting boxing cards and I still have a world of knowledge yet to obtain. But one thing I'm certain of is that speculating on what will and will not become a hobby darling in the future is a losing proposition. I'd even go so far as to say that speculating on items that are condition-scarce is a losing proposition. Look at the more common UK issues from the 1930s. The pop reports have done nothing but inflate as prices got stronger and now they've plateaued. So much of a PSA 10's value comes from the registry and, for boxing cards, that's almost exclusively for player registry sets. There are 3 Mike Tyson player registry sets right now. Compare that to many other boxers on the registry and he's at or near the bottom in popularity.
<< <i>I have said it many times but the supply is too low relative to the potential size of the market. There are going to be some shocking selling prices of these going forward I still believe. >>
Another thing I've learned is that it takes years and years to even remotely be able to gauge a foreign issue's supply once the cards start selling. To look at the pop report now on a modern foreign issue and believe that it represents an accurate depiction of the supply out there globally is a mistake, in my opinion. I've seen pop reports explode for issues as far back as the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s for foreign issues. Some markets become saturated, some hold up and haven't moved (I'm still kicking myself for selling the only known copy of the 1921 RyJ white border Dempsey and one of only two known copies of both the La Morena Dempsey and the Bigott Dempsey). So while it may turn out that this Panini Tyson is somewhat difficult, the odds are that it will turn out to be not as hard as we might think.
Not to mention that there are undoubtedly still more Tyson issues form the 1980s that have yet to be discovered. Boxing card collectors seem to be a different animal than the four major sports card collectors. The line drawn for "rookie cards" is often blurred, at best. Most (or, at least, many of the ones I know) don't really care as much about what is or what is not technically a fighter's "rookie card." They're much more concerned with rarity and that almost always occurs years, if not decades, after that first issue is released.
I love the excitement on display here for boxing cards, I hope it grows ten fold. But to suggest to others that this card (or any card, for that matter) is going to continue to climb in price at astronomical rates is just irresponsible. I hope it does, I think it would be great for the boxing card aspect of the hobby. And because I really like boxing cards and talking about boxing cards I thought I would share some stuff in a gesture of good faith because I really truly don't want this to turn into something negative. Collect what you like and what makes you happy and you'll never go wrong.
great comments guys, and especially well said Reggie. One other factor to note in terms of 'crazy' prices is also to note a few of the boxing cards from high-end multisport sets (like the 33 Goudey Sport Kings, 1948 Leaf) that whales collect. A PSA 8 Sport Kings Max Baer went for something like $3,200 and a PSA 8 '48 Dempsey hit over $4,000 on mile high just a few months back (the Graziano hit 25k!!), which is pretty impressive. PSA 9s of either of these could hit 10k too - but you're right that the money likely wouldn't be coming from the hardcore boxing guys.
On the Tyson - while we'll surely see more 80s releases from around the globe, I doubt that we'll see anything popping up from before 1986 - in early 1985, he was an 18 year old kid who hadn't yet had his first fight. The Panini is, and imho will always be, his true RC.
and Dpeck, I'm with you and also bullish on the tyson. it probably won't be boxing guys buying the card and bumping the prices from here - it'll be collectors from other sports who want to have the Tyson and maybe a few other 'boxing legends' (Ali, etc) in their high end multi-sport HOF RC collections. For those who drop $1k+ on 70s PSA 10 commons, a Tyson RC for 2-3 grand is nothing - and as you say, it's WAY cooler to show off to buddies - especially those that don't share our deranged little hobby.
I am not an expert on boxing cards what so ever and know very little about the older cards.
To me the Mike Tyson is not even so much a boxing card but a card of a sport icon. One of the things that I think is driving his popularity is the appearance in so many modern sets and anyone buying those certainly could be interested in owning his rookie card.
There are eye popping prices for some of the modern trading cards that are short prints and tons of people say wow I would spend that 10k on a vintage Mantle or something that feels like a more safe long term investment. It doesn't stop the cards from selling for high prices.
I like to monitor the number of watchers for popular cards on EBAY and the Tyson Panini has seen a huge increase in those tracking it. Obviously watchers are not always buyers but today's watchers may be tomorrow's buyers and to me it shows there is an increase in interest.
My expectation is not for the niche boxing card collectors to chase this card but the typical card collector that likes to own what they think are cool cards and this may turnout to be their only boxing card.
I agree! The excitement on display here about boxing cards almost makes me wish I was still collecting them...almost. Reggie, I hadn't seen the Tattoo Orbit Dempsey before. Thanks for posting that! You guys are right. Collect whatever makes you happy. I've found an odd sense of comfort collecting soccer cards now. It took a long time for me to find a comfortable place in this hobby (one I could equally afford AND enjoy). To stay on topic in this thread, while I am not sure if the Panini Tyson sale price is legit, there's no doubt that it is THE tyson card to own, at least at this point. He has his fans (as both boxer and cultural icon). I doubt there will ever be another like him.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
I agree that the Panini will almost certainly be considered Tyson's rookie. The odds of something popping up from 1985 or earlier are slim to none. However, given a choice between a high grade '86 Panini or, say, a different card from 1988 or 1989 that only has a couple of known copies I'd go with the 88/89. But that's just my personal taste. I like true rarity, not condition rarity.
<< <i>I am not an expert on boxing cards what so ever and know very little about the older cards.
To me the Mike Tyson is not even so much a boxing card but a card of a sport icon. One of the things that I think is driving his popularity is the appearance in so many modern sets and anyone buying those certainly could be interested in owning his rookie card.
There are eye popping prices for some of the modern trading cards that are short prints and tons of people say wow I would spend that 10k on a vintage Mantle or something that feels like a more safe long term investment. It doesn't stop the cards from selling for high prices.
I like to monitor the number of watchers for popular cards on EBAY and the Tyson Panini has seen a huge increase in those tracking it. Obviously watchers are not always buyers but today's watchers may be tomorrow's buyers and to me it shows there is an increase in interest. >>
I agree with all of this. I'm not discouraged by the high price, I think it's great that there's a modern boxing card selling for four figures. I just hope the people that are spending that coin are doing so out of collecting and not investing.
<< <i>My expectation is not for the niche boxing card collectors to chase this card but the typical card collector that likes to own what they think are cool cards and this may turnout to be their only boxing card. >>
My concern would be that the "niche boxing card collector" is actually the base that drives up demand and prices on an item over the long term. If what you describe is a group of people that aren't boxing card collectors but just want to have a Tyson rookie in their collection than I think you're describing a small population of people that aren't going to be passionate about it. Either way, I think we've probably spent way too much time on the monetary value of the card (my own fault as well). It is a cool card and I like that there's a variation on the back. How difficult is the '87 compared to the '86?
Alan, the Tattoo Orbit is a cool story. As you know, new foreign issues surface a handful of times a year from the 1920s-1930s, but the R308 is an American set with baseball subjects. It's hard to believe that there would be an American issue (especially one from 1933) that has baseball cards in it that was not completely checklisted but it turns out that was the case when a seller in Florida discovered a group of cards from the set and there turned out to be Dempsey in it (as well as a Primo Carnera, and we knew about the Max Baer) promoting their film The Prizefighter and the Lady. I never thought I'd see an uncatalogued Dempsey from America, pretty happy about it.
And sorry about the scans I posted earlier. I forgot this was the Tyson thread and for some reason thought it was the general boxing card thread that had just been focusing on the Tyson.
RC, Great story! And knowing you as I know you, I can only say that the Dempsey found the perfect home. I think at this point you have introduced so many Dempseys to the hobby. This time, I hope you can keep them for as long as you want. -Alan
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
These daily threads of potential shilling sure make for a depressing state of the hobby. As someone who just stepped back in after more then a decade absence I sure do miss the old days of spending a afternoon at the hobby shop with friends not knowing any better on most things and just happy with busting a few packs of 90-91 UD Hockey or 96-97 Zenith Hockey hoping for a Jeremy Roenick or Sergei Federov. Seems we've lost the fun part of collecting.
Comments
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I do not consider him to be an all time great but everyone knows who he is and is drawn to him and for a period of time he absolutely captured the attention of America....and those are the reasons why I think he is a good investment. >>
I think Tyson is universally considered a top 20 heavyweight, and some put him in the top 10. I guess "all time great" is subjective, but to me, he fits the bill.
<< <i>
<< <i>I do not consider him to be an all time great but everyone knows who he is and is drawn to him and for a period of time he absolutely captured the attention of America....and those are the reasons why I think he is a good investment. >>
I think Tyson is universally considered a top 20 heavyweight, and some put him in the top 10. I guess "all time great" is subjective, but to me, he fits the bill. >>
Just curious, but what are you basing this on?
edit to add - Tyson's generally considered a top 50 of all time, and certainly a top 20 in terms of a boxer in his prime, career potential, and (as noted above) cultural cache. this card's price is certainly due as much to the last element as the first two. he just flamed out too quickly to be considered a lock top-20 all-time as a boxer.
In theory someone could have signed up for EBAY and chose to only bid on this one card in the last few hours of the auction.
I was watching it live and when it started to pop with the zero feedback bidder and the pattern of bids unfortunately the first thing I thought of was Mike.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
In the big picture there are just not enough of these to go around.
Mike hopefully this turns out to be a completed transaction because that would be one hell of a return on investment.
Jeff
Jeff
I have one PSA 8 and a few raw copies.
<< <i>Based on this Ali rookies should trade at 10 k or higher. >>
The Ali is a pop 2 at PSA 9 and pop zero PSA 10. If a pop 1 PSA 10 ever gets graded, it might hit 25k+, to be honest. There's a few bigtime Ali collectors with deep pockets who know how rare it would ever be to get it a pop 2. That said, I think that this card is high on price and cut short on the bottom. will be interesting to see if it sells.
But I don't think that the discussion hurts the value at all actually - the debate adds interest, and hardcore collectors will get all of them anyway. It certainly hasn't hurt the value of the 52 mantle or 86 jordan, neither of which are the 'true rookie card'.
Personally, I don't know if there will ever be enough Lampos surfacing to give it the critical mass needed to make it 'the' rookie to own, and the 1960 date for the hemmets is a big draw, as is the fact that high-grade copies actually exist for purchasing. As of now, the market likes it as the rookie.
With this Tyson, I think we're looking at one legit bidder that put in a gotta-have-it bid and two nonlegit bidders that bid it up all week.
I'm a big proponent of "collect what you like" but this ending price seems so far from a realistic value for this card that I wouldn't be surprised if it does more harm than good.
Am I correct?
<< <i>If you pay for a Probstein auction I believe you get automatic feedback.
Am I correct? >>
yes, I believe that's the case
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I had another guy with zero feedback win and pay for the jeter rc last night and he paid real-time ....
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>the guy with zero feedback hasn't paid yet, needless to say, I'm holding off paying the consignor until this one plays out...
I had another guy with zero feedback win and pay for the jeter rc last night and he paid real-time .... >>
In this case the consignor gets the card returned to him ???
Do you keep track of consignors that get non-paying bidders ?
thanks
yes, or we do a second chance offer if they consignor wants, we only do this after this first buyer declines
Do you keep track of consignors that get non-paying bidders ?
yes, because I typically cash flow everyone before I'm paid in full...
this one I noticed cause of the thread , so I'm gonna withhold payment...
normally, I would have paid him today
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>The number of boxing cards that would go over $10k right now in an auction is pretty low. Off the top of my head, the only cards I think would have a shot (without shills) are any '48 Leaf Graziano, the E125 Jack Johnson, that's probably it. Maybe a Kopec Jack Johnson but even that might be a stretch right now. Not to mention that the Hemmetts Cassius Clay is handcut and readily available so it's just a matter of time before the pop report grows.. >>
I'd pay 10k for a pop 1 PSA 10 Hemmets ali right now in a second if you had one, but more to flip than to hold. That will be a massive card. although the pop report will grow, it's a tougher card than many think, due to scuffs and that printer spot.
Agree on the leaf graziano, a ultra high grade 87 A&G sullivan or nice 1887 N174 Fitzsimmons might get there too, if it ever surfaces.
(edit for spelling errors)
if its an established consignor, then I pay them right away and deal with it afterwards...
if its a new consignor, I review the data and if it looks normal, I pay right away,
if the sales look super high , then I wait to pay,
I've only had to wait 3 times in the last six months, and all 3 paid eventually...one was a RG3 rookie that sold like crazy and they buyer never left feedback
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>Rick, what do you do in a case where you pay the consignor the next day and the winner never pays you?
if its an established consignor, then I pay them right away and deal with it afterwards...
if its a new consignor, I review the data and if it looks normal, I pay right away,
if the sales look super high , then I wait to pay,
I've only had to wait 3 times in the last six months, and all 3 paid eventually...one was a RG3 rookie that sold like crazy and they buyer never left feedback >>
I can vouch for this, he is super quick on paying cosignors.
A PSA 8 N28 Sullivan sold for $3400 at the height of boxing card prices in 2007, another one sold for much less in 2009. A PSA 7 N174 Gypsy Queen Sullivan sold for $3000 last year. Of the boxing cards known to exist, I think there's 2 or 3 that would eclipse $10k. If we expand that to all cards known to exist and in the highest theoretical grade I'm not sure that would enlarge the list at $10k, nevermind at $25k. The number of collectors that would be bidding on a boxing card at $25k would be small and I don't believe they'd care that a 1960 Hemmetts Clay has been graded a 10 instead of an 8.
<< <i>I was talking about cards that actually exist, not theoretical cards.
A PSA 8 N28 Sullivan sold for $3400 at the height of boxing card prices in 2007, another one sold for much less in 2009. A PSA 7 N174 Gypsy Queen Sullivan sold for $3000 last year. Of the boxing cards known to exist, I think there's 2 or 3 that would eclipse $10k. If we expand that to all cards known to exist and in the highest theoretical grade I'm not sure that would enlarge the list at $10k, nevermind at $25k. The number of collectors that would be bidding on a boxing card at $25k would be small and I don't believe they'd care that a 1960 Hemmetts Clay has been graded a 10 instead of an 8. >>
THIS is verbatim how I feel; specifically the last bit about the number of collectors willing to fork over $25k for ANY boxing card, let alone the Hemmetts Clay. The Hemmetts Clay just isn't that desirable. Back when I was actively collecting boxing cards, the Clay/Ali card I wanted to add most was the Lampo. Second would be a (I believe it was called) Devito version of the Lampo card (RC, correct me if I am wrong). The few guys I know with silly money to spend on boxing cards have either stopped collecting altogether, or are still hunting for obscure South American issues. The registry is a mighty powerful drug, but not so powerful as to make someone shell out $25k for a Hemmetts Clay. (Of course, this is only my opinion and I have definitley been wrong before.)
Edited to add: now, if it was a panama al brown card, then we could talk five figures
This sale most likely won't go through at this price but I think it will certainly sell in the $2,500 range and that is still a strong number. It may go higher but that is a number that could happen for sure if brokered right.
This is another platinum rookie card from the non major sports area that is a must own.
Most will never pick up collecting lots of boxing cards but an Iron Mike Rookie Card is awesome.
When people come to my condo they think the wrestling cards are cool because of my excitement and the nostalgia but the Mike Tyson Panini grabs people.
It is an awesome card and it is going to stay an expensive card.
I have said it many times but the supply is too low relative to the potential size of the market. There are going to be some shocking selling prices of these going forward I still believe.
I purchased four others right away from the other sites but they were not really strong examples either.
The spike we created told me that this card was very sensitive to increased bidding activity and could move much higher.
I took one look at the sticker once I had it in hand and new this was going to get hot just like the Hogan and Flair.
Once they started showing up from the seller in Cyprus I pounced and bought quite a few.
<< <i>This is another platinum rookie card from the non major sports area that is a must own. >>
I like the Panini Tyson card. I think it will be a popular card among modern boxing collectors as we see the younger generation that started to collect and follow sports in the 80s branch out to boxing cards. It also helps that there really isn't much in the form of modern boxing cards to get excited about and compete with it. Tyson certainly had and still has a certain charm to him that many people are drawn to. Is it a "must own?" I suppose if you collect Tyson it is. But 90% of my collection is boxing cards and the only reason I own one is because I picked a beater up cheap. But if you collect Tyson and have the funds, I say go for whatever it is you like. If you really want to own a PSA 10 Panini Tyson then, by all means, pay as much as you're comfortable paying to get one. But to speculate on it and invest in it for purely monetary gain is a fool's errand.
I've learned a lot since I start collecting boxing cards and I still have a world of knowledge yet to obtain. But one thing I'm certain of is that speculating on what will and will not become a hobby darling in the future is a losing proposition. I'd even go so far as to say that speculating on items that are condition-scarce is a losing proposition. Look at the more common UK issues from the 1930s. The pop reports have done nothing but inflate as prices got stronger and now they've plateaued. So much of a PSA 10's value comes from the registry and, for boxing cards, that's almost exclusively for player registry sets. There are 3 Mike Tyson player registry sets right now. Compare that to many other boxers on the registry and he's at or near the bottom in popularity.
<< <i>I have said it many times but the supply is too low relative to the potential size of the market. There are going to be some shocking selling prices of these going forward I still believe. >>
Another thing I've learned is that it takes years and years to even remotely be able to gauge a foreign issue's supply once the cards start selling. To look at the pop report now on a modern foreign issue and believe that it represents an accurate depiction of the supply out there globally is a mistake, in my opinion. I've seen pop reports explode for issues as far back as the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s for foreign issues. Some markets become saturated, some hold up and haven't moved (I'm still kicking myself for selling the only known copy of the 1921 RyJ white border Dempsey and one of only two known copies of both the La Morena Dempsey and the Bigott Dempsey). So while it may turn out that this Panini Tyson is somewhat difficult, the odds are that it will turn out to be not as hard as we might think.
Not to mention that there are undoubtedly still more Tyson issues form the 1980s that have yet to be discovered. Boxing card collectors seem to be a different animal than the four major sports card collectors. The line drawn for "rookie cards" is often blurred, at best. Most (or, at least, many of the ones I know) don't really care as much about what is or what is not technically a fighter's "rookie card." They're much more concerned with rarity and that almost always occurs years, if not decades, after that first issue is released.
I love the excitement on display here for boxing cards, I hope it grows ten fold. But to suggest to others that this card (or any card, for that matter) is going to continue to climb in price at astronomical rates is just irresponsible. I hope it does, I think it would be great for the boxing card aspect of the hobby. And because I really like boxing cards and talking about boxing cards I thought I would share some stuff in a gesture of good faith because I really truly don't want this to turn into something negative. Collect what you like and what makes you happy and you'll never go wrong.
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On the Tyson - while we'll surely see more 80s releases from around the globe, I doubt that we'll see anything popping up from before 1986 - in early 1985, he was an 18 year old kid who hadn't yet had his first fight. The Panini is, and imho will always be, his true RC.
To me the Mike Tyson is not even so much a boxing card but a card of a sport icon. One of the things that I think is driving his popularity is the appearance in so many modern sets and anyone buying those certainly could be interested in owning his rookie card.
There are eye popping prices for some of the modern trading cards that are short prints and tons of people say wow I would spend that 10k on a vintage Mantle or something that feels like a more safe long term investment. It doesn't stop the cards from selling for high prices.
I like to monitor the number of watchers for popular cards on EBAY and the Tyson Panini has seen a huge increase in those tracking it. Obviously watchers are not always buyers but today's watchers may be tomorrow's buyers and to me it shows there is an increase in interest.
My expectation is not for the niche boxing card collectors to chase this card but the typical card collector that likes to own what they think are cool cards and this may turnout to be their only boxing card.
Reggie, I hadn't seen the Tattoo Orbit Dempsey before. Thanks for posting that!
You guys are right. Collect whatever makes you happy. I've found an odd sense of comfort collecting soccer cards now. It took a long time for me to find a comfortable place in this hobby (one I could equally afford AND enjoy). To stay on topic in this thread, while I am not sure if the Panini Tyson sale price is legit, there's no doubt that it is THE tyson card to own, at least at this point. He has his fans (as both boxer and cultural icon). I doubt there will ever be another like him.
<< <i>I am not an expert on boxing cards what so ever and know very little about the older cards.
To me the Mike Tyson is not even so much a boxing card but a card of a sport icon. One of the things that I think is driving his popularity is the appearance in so many modern sets and anyone buying those certainly could be interested in owning his rookie card.
There are eye popping prices for some of the modern trading cards that are short prints and tons of people say wow I would spend that 10k on a vintage Mantle or something that feels like a more safe long term investment. It doesn't stop the cards from selling for high prices.
I like to monitor the number of watchers for popular cards on EBAY and the Tyson Panini has seen a huge increase in those tracking it. Obviously watchers are not always buyers but today's watchers may be tomorrow's buyers and to me it shows there is an increase in interest. >>
I agree with all of this. I'm not discouraged by the high price, I think it's great that there's a modern boxing card selling for four figures. I just hope the people that are spending that coin are doing so out of collecting and not investing.
<< <i>My expectation is not for the niche boxing card collectors to chase this card but the typical card collector that likes to own what they think are cool cards and this may turnout to be their only boxing card. >>
My concern would be that the "niche boxing card collector" is actually the base that drives up demand and prices on an item over the long term. If what you describe is a group of people that aren't boxing card collectors but just want to have a Tyson rookie in their collection than I think you're describing a small population of people that aren't going to be passionate about it. Either way, I think we've probably spent way too much time on the monetary value of the card (my own fault as well). It is a cool card and I like that there's a variation on the back. How difficult is the '87 compared to the '86?
Alan, the Tattoo Orbit is a cool story. As you know, new foreign issues surface a handful of times a year from the 1920s-1930s, but the R308 is an American set with baseball subjects. It's hard to believe that there would be an American issue (especially one from 1933) that has baseball cards in it that was not completely checklisted but it turns out that was the case when a seller in Florida discovered a group of cards from the set and there turned out to be Dempsey in it (as well as a Primo Carnera, and we knew about the Max Baer) promoting their film The Prizefighter and the Lady. I never thought I'd see an uncatalogued Dempsey from America, pretty happy about it.
The second year Tyson is much easier to find and there are quite a few in mint condition.
There are three variations of it and I do want to add the other two to my collection at some point.
I have yet to see a PSA 10 come for sale but last I checked there were four in the pop report.
It is a cool looking card and shows off what a beast Tyson was.
Tyson 153
I find it very strange that someone would sign up for EBAY and only bid on one card and then not pay for it.
These daily threads of potential shilling sure make for a depressing state of the hobby. As someone who just stepped back in after more then a decade absence I sure do miss the old days of spending a afternoon at the hobby shop with friends not knowing any better on most things and just happy with busting a few packs of 90-91 UD Hockey or 96-97 Zenith Hockey hoping for a Jeremy Roenick or Sergei Federov. Seems we've lost the fun part of collecting.