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Original Surfaces Are Great, But Post-Mint Damage Can Be Cool, Too

TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
Who is E. E. McD. and how and where did he/she die on March 11, 1847?

Most folks who read any quantity of my posts or who go to my website have no doubt been beaten over the head with the mantra of “original surfaces” this and “original surfaces” that, over and over. Similarly, many might be numb to reading “it’s likely been dipped…” or “the surfaces have clearly been altered” or even the favorite of some “the coin has been boinked”. However, sometimes the right coin comes along and just has to be incorporated into the collection even if it might not make sense on some levels. Such is the case with a piece being shared at this time.

It’s fair to say that I like Reeded Edge half dollars. It’s fair to say that I adore Reeded Edge half dollars. Heck, it might even be fair to say that Reeded Edge half dollars are my favorite US series. This quirky, short-lived series sits nestled between two enormous, highly popular and widely collected half dollar runs that constitute the Capped Bust and Seated Liberty series. The Reeded Edge half dollars are also coins that I carefully inspect when going to shows, visiting shops or examining collections. There are many scarce die marriages; two low mintage issues and a seemingly endless array of die cracks to find. Then, there is this coin.

Obviously, at one point the coin had a hole in it that has since been filled by a non-silver metal. It also has exquisite engraving that states “E. E. McD.” directly in front of the portrait and “1847 Died March 11th” directly behind the portrait. Aside from the engraving and repaired hole, the surfaces are not original. I’d imagine the coin was dipped once or twice, especially if it was worn on a necklace as suggested by the repaired hole, and has since retoned. Truly, if the engraving was on a coin from another series or if this were simply a Reeded Edge half dollar with surface issues then it is highly unlikely I would have purchase the coin. However, the coin is what it is and here we are with a modified 1838 Reeded Edge half dollar GR-14 (formerly JR-7) die marriage.

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Link to 90 degree rotated obverse image.

I’ve spent quite a bit of time looking at this coin and also lots of time using Google to find out who might be referenced on the coin. Thus far, there are no interesting leads, but a number of cool items popped up. These include-

* A list of soldiers and civilians killed in the Siege of Veracruz from March 9 through March 29, 1847, which was the first large-scale amphibious assault by US forces.

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* The history of the Donner Party along with a listing of individual survivors and casualties. Most have probably read about the Donner Party, but if you haven’t then you should take some time to read about what these folks endured on their trip westward and how so many of the members of the party died en route.

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* On March 11, 1847 John Chapman died in Allen County, IN. Today he is better known as Johnny Appleseed. Of course, I do not know if he was always so happy as the 1972 postcard, below, suggests.

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At the time of purchase, I was told that the coin was found in circulation in the early 1950s and was placed into its former collection at that time. The collection was from a collector who lived in ID. Thus far, I believe I am not any closer to finding out the details behind this coin than I was before the piece entered my collection. An interesting thing to wonder, which may or may not be accurate, is the level of wear on the coin. The coin is dated 1838 and has an engraving date of 1847. If we assume that the engraving was not done before March 11, 1847 then we might have some evidence as to how much circulation wear coins of this era gathered once minted. Certainly, this is not a perfect system, but it might be an interesting observation.
Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

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Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    great post and information with a couple whimsical comedic comments image

    i'd say more but i'm not feeling witty as of now being dog tired n all

    thanks for posting!
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭


    You may be able to find some information on ancestry.com


    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>You may be able to find some information on ancestry.com >>



    I got an account there and did not find anything. Searched on death date 3/11/1847, there are about 300 US records, nothing close on the name.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting thread! image
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oops. Double post.
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>You may be able to find some information on ancestry.com >>



    I got an account there and did not find anything. Searched on death date 3/11/1847, there are about 300 US records, nothing close on the name. >>



    Try a few days either way.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭
    Cool coin and a post as only Tom could provide image Thanks for all the info and neat pictures.
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love seeing coins like these posted !
    I am equally interested in the ways old coins were used and sometimes abused as I am in those that were some how preserved in pristeen condition...perhaps a bit more interested in the abused ones as time goes on...thanks Tom !
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A very interesting piece.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    Elizabeth McDonald. Died March 11, 1847,

    image

    She was born Elizabeth Kurtz in 1819 and

    Married John R. McDonald in 1838 (The year of this coin)

    Her mother's mother's name was Elizabeth. Her father's mother's name was Eva.

    Elizabeth Eva McDonald.
  • It may be possible 1838 was the year of birth.
    "A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes"--Hugh Downs
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "The coin is dated 1838 and has an engraving date of 1847. If we assume that the engraving was not done before March 11, 1847 then we might have some evidence as to how much circulation wear coins of this era gathered once minted. Certainly, this is not a perfect system, but it might be an interesting observation."


    Except for the fact that you said the coin was pulled from circulation in 1950 which means the wear could have developed way after 1847.
    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many individuals eschew surface graffiti, PMD or excessive wear (although some value wear).... however, as in this case, often the 'additives' contribute to what I like to term, the 'character' of a coin. Coins with character are a great collector focus - as, of course, are the pristine examples. Collecting is a hobby and as such, it's many facets allow for the varied interests of this species we term human. Cheers, RickO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The engraving on this piece is a number of steps above "surface graffiti." I view graffiti as some scratches someone does with nail or pin. A skilled artisan engraved this, and it is probable that the intent was to make a piece that could be worn by someone who was morning the loss of a loved one.

    Here is something similar although it is in the form of a Civil War dog tag. This Civil War soldier survived the war and lived to a ripe old age. He could not have worn this piece during the war because it is too well preserved. The assumption is that he gave it to his wife or sweetheart, "Mary," as he was going off to war as a way for her to stay in touch with him while he was gone.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Elizabeth McDonald. Died March 11, 1847,


    She was born Elizabeth Kurtz in 1819 and

    Married John R. McDonald in 1838 (The year of this coin)

    Her mother's mother's name was Elizabeth. Her father's mother's name was Eva.

    Elizabeth Eva McDonald. >>



    Wow, pretty strong, can't be too many people with initials EEMD passing on March 11, 1847. If the grave marker is for the person memorialized by the inscription on the coin, that's pretty amazing.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Elizabeth McDonald. Died March 11, 1847,


    She was born Elizabeth Kurtz in 1819 and

    Married John R. McDonald in 1838 (The year of this coin)

    Her mother's mother's name was Elizabeth. Her father's mother's name was Eva.

    Elizabeth Eva McDonald. >>



    Wow, pretty strong, can't be too many people with initials EEMD passing on March 11, 1847. If the grave marker is for the person memorialized by the inscription on the coin, that's pretty amazing. >>



    To me the year of the coin corresponding with the marriage year ices it. No way to ever prove it, but I don't think you will ever find anything closer.
  • I often hear it said " if coins could only talk" . I think this one has.
  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice work finding that information. Really cool.
    Larry

  • That's a fascinating coin, particularly when combined with the research. It's further evidence that a coin's post-minting journey can be just as interesting as its core role as "history you can hold in your hands." In my opinion, the appeal of this piece's engraved tribute easily trumps the loss of originality and other condition issues.
    "Clamorous for Coin"
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow cool piece
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting indeed!
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭
    Neat post, Thanks for sharing...
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can I ask where the gravestone is. Figured you got it offline and didn't just happen to have that pic. image

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