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If all a collector ever sees is "dreck" does "dreck" start to look good?
291fifth
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Many collectors never attend a major show or auction. As a result they probably seldom see really top quality coins.
Do these collectors form their standards based on the "dreck" they see at local shows or in online auctions?
Your thoughts ...
Do these collectors form their standards based on the "dreck" they see at local shows or in online auctions?
Your thoughts ...
All glory is fleeting.
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RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Compared to what the really high flyer guys, like Boiler and TDN collect, my collection is mostly "dreck." By in large I am a Choice EF to MS-64 level collector. Everyone has their level.
That being said, without these newbie collectors devouring the dreck, there wouldn't be a market for the high-end stuff!
<< <i>Yes, a lot of them do. If you never look at anything but the mostly low grade stuff that shows up on the Internet and local shows, you think that the best of the stuff is "really nice."
Compared to what the really high flyer guys, like Boiler and TDN collect, my collection is mostly "dreck." By in large I am a Choice EF to MS-64 level collector. Everyone has their level. >>
Choice EF to MS-64 isn't "dreck".
"Dreck" is low end material which often has problems. When slabbed, the problem is often that it has been overgraded. When I attend a local Sunday bourse this is about all I ever see aside from the seemingly endless piles of common Morgans.
For the most part, I've weened myself away from the urge to buy dreck 'just to buy something' at the smaller shows.
I frequently leave with nothing. I did make an exception last Sunday, when a dealer had a 1795 large cent with G/VG detail on both sides,
no damage, light brown and smooth but for a tad of verdigris around the portrait. For $85, I will be buy dreck like this.
The internet helps a little, but also provides false lessons, as high-end photographs often become a proxy for high-end coins.
<< <i>I agree with the premise of the thread. In order to know what a high-end coin looks like, you have to see high-end coins...in person.
The internet helps a little, but also provides false lessons, as high-end photographs often become a proxy for high-end coins. >>
Interesting topic for a thread and excellent points raised.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>I attend small and large shows.
For the most part, I've weened myself away from the urge to buy dreck 'just to buy something' at the smaller shows.
I frequently leave with nothing. I did make an exception last Sunday, when a dealer had a 1795 large cent with G/VG detail on both sides,
no damage, light brown and smooth but for a tad of verdigris around the portrait. For $85, I will be buy dreck like this. >>
ANY half way decent 1795 cent is definitely "rare" at today's run of the mill shows. You really have to go to the annual EAC convention to see much of that material these days. $85 hardly buys you a blank planchet at those days.
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree with the premise of the thread. In order to know what a high-end coin looks like, you have to see high-end coins...in person.
The internet helps a little, but also provides false lessons, as high-end photographs often become a proxy for high-end coins. >>
Interesting topic for a thread and excellent points raised. >>
Let's call it "The Anaconda Effect".
Surely there are coins other than "dreck" at local shows and online auctions. At least I'd like to think so, as I have many I've purchased that way. If one takes the advice of who I believe to be the person who established "dreck" as a numismatic term, there are good coins and bad coins at every price point. Going to the bottom extreme, a beginning collector going through a handful of pocket change can be shown how to select one coin that is the nicest or decide that none are that nice. This selectivity can and must be scaled up as their budget increases. Once their budget exceeds the coins that are routinely availble through lesser channels, they will either have to explore other options for acquiring their coins or lower their standards from those that they learned on less expensive coins, and say that while "dreck" doesn't necessarily look good, it looks good enough.
<< <i>The internet helps a little, but also provides false lessons, as high-end photographs often become a proxy for high-end coins. >>
I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. A high-end photograph of dreck can l give the impression that the coin is something special just by virtue of the photograph being good. Depending on the skill and intent of the photographer, a photo can be taken of dreck that makes the coin look less drecky than it is. A photograph is a static view of a coin that cannot convey all the information about a coin that is availalble when the coin is viewed in hand. The "false lesson" is that a high-end photograph is always a suitable substitute for seeing the coin in hand, and this would lead to the viewer to draw the conclusion that the coins depicted are possibly something more than what they are. The flip-side of this, however, is that a high-end photograph of a high-end coin (at any price point) can be truly stunning and raise the standards of the buyer for when he does look at a coin in hand. Who hasn't gone to the CRO or Legend websites and said, "I want a collection that looks like that!"? I try to pick the coins for my annual calendar such that a viewer would feel the same way, and true to the fact that there's good stuff at every price point, those I choose aren't just the most valuable coins I've seen.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
Choice EF to MS-64 isn't (always) "dreck".
>>
The grade alone does not really tell the whole story either, imo.
I agree . In some cases, you are still dealing with coins that are in the
NICE home price range AND for many coins, thats all the better things get and many coins
would be ultra uncommon in these or any grades.
Dreck approachs the depths of scheisse. Coins which are FUBAR at some more sophisticated levels. UGH -- (D to F)
Schlock is off-the-rack, so-so at best. EH -- (C-to-C+)
B- to B+ = acceptable to a lot of people. sometimes DAMN, JUST MISSES -
A - Whatever the technical grade, that's a nice effen coin!! YUM to OMG = OhMyG-d
Anything a step higher looks good. And if the step higher is just a hair above the rest, that's enough for discriminatiuon will begin. There are always outliers, even in dreck
I have seen, as an example, well matched sets of Morgans in VF/XF. The vast majority are under $100 and not really rare. But an attractive, original, well matched set can be a joy to behold. The cost is not the issue. The quality is.
You can build a drecky set of really expensive over-graded crap pretty easy. Go to any show with a checkbook and a blindfold.
merse
If people are happy collecting what they like and they're not getting ripped off, who cares what they collect? My entire collection is probably "nice" to the majority of collectors, but drecky to those who live in the stratosphere. Like Mowgli said, the problem is when people think they have something special and it works out differently at sale time.
<< <i>To me, grounded in Yiddish, knowing a bit about the rag trade, I find myself making these discriminations, which I've stated before.
Dreck is a synonym for scheisse. Coins which are FUBAR at some more sophisticated levels. UGH -- (D to F)
Schlock is off-the-racK is off-the-rack, so so at best. EH -- (C-to-C+)
B- to B+ = acceptable to a lot of people. sometimes DAMN, JUST MISSES -
A - Whatever the technical grade, that's a nice effen coin!! YUM to OMG = OhMyG-d
CJ is very astute, as usual. Is it true that only a schmuck will buy schlock, but a schlemiel gravitates toward dreck?
Oy vey!
schlock
gut
Mazel tov!
Much easier to remember than A-B-C.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Empty Nest Collection
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
Eric
<< <i>thirsty man will drink almost anything. >>
+1
a good question to ask for sure.
.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
By the way, can someone please give some examples of what they think dreck is, and not the definition. For instance is a 1865 liberty seated silver dollar in original VF condition dreck,how about a more common really nice EF-45 1861 quarter? How about a common date MS-63 $5 lib. gold coin? How about a ugly scratched scarce 1846 dime? Is dreck different things to different people? Does it have to be rare, high grade and choice, and in high demand not to be dreck?
but hey, it was just as fun looking / grade em...as anything else
and , when you sell your dreck, you have fewer coins............
as a collector, its a process..................
And you see enough stickers to break his price code....
DRECKMASTR
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree with the premise of the thread. In order to know what a high-end coin looks like, you have to see high-end coins...in person.
The internet helps a little, but also provides false lessons, as high-end photographs often become a proxy for high-end coins. >>
Interesting topic for a thread and excellent points raised. >>
Let's call it "The Anaconda Effect".
i was going for the dreckholm syndrome
<< <i>Is an otherwise problem free coin that is optimistically graded (barely made it) in an MS65 slab considered dreck? Does this same coin become choice PQ if it's in an MS63 slab? >>
What if the MS64 coin in the MS65 holder is priced as an MS63? is it dreck? What about the same MS64 coin in an MS63 holder but priced as an MS65? dreck?
so much "depends" and everything is relative. I don't even like the word dreck
edited to add: I do think perception gets distorted by viewing registry sets, high end dealer inventories, and postings on this forum, and conclusions drawn that if it's not some spectacular wonder coin, then it's not worth owning. By definition, not every coin (nor all of anything else, for that matter) can be "above average"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I don't think the discussion of dreck can be isolated from either "grade", as PerryHall points out, or from "price" either...
<< <i>Is an otherwise problem free coin that is optimistically graded (barely made it) in an MS65 slab considered dreck? Does this same coin become choice PQ if it's in an MS63 slab? >>
What if the MS64 coin in the MS65 holder is priced as an MS63? is it dreck? What about the same MS64 coin in an MS63 holder but priced as an MS65? dreck?
so much "depends" and everything is relative. I don't even like the word dreck >>
Too many unquantifiable aspects that makes a coin so-called "dreck" and even so, it depends on the person viewing it. Just because the bottom feeders don't collect "high-end" coins doesn't mean that they are poor numismatists, they just collect what they enjoy. No shame in that. Then again, defining "high-end" is an entirely different beast which presents the same pitfalls as when defining a collector and coins as "dreck."
<< <i>.... Is it true that only a schmuck will buy schlock, but a schlemiel gravitates toward dreck? >>
The qualities of the schmuck, which often closely approximate those of a putz, are often comingled in the psyche of many individuals with those of a schlemiel. Both schlemiel and schmuck gravitatate financially towards dreck even as their aspirations lean schlockward.
It's the schlomozzel who ends up with the scheisse.
BTW. I want to applaud your facility with transliteration.
<< <i>i was going for the dreckholm syndrome >>
This is good stuff!
Coin Rarities Online
I've seen MS 63-64 coins that I'd MUCH rather own than some MS 65-66+ ones.
That being said, sometimes one loses patience and the adrenaline begins to flow, when we see a scarce coin and we consider filling a slot---this even happens to experts. It is a feeling that must be curbed.
And, yes, novices DO see the coin world differently than someone with a more 'seasoned' eye.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
<< <i>
<< <i>.... Is it true that only a schmuck will buy schlock, but a schlemiel gravitates toward dreck? >>
The qualities of the schmuck, which often closely approximate those of a putz, are often comingled in the psyche of many individuals with those of a schlemiel. Both schlemiel and schmuck gravitatate financially towards dreck even as their aspirations lean schlockward.
It's the schlomozzel who ends up with the scheisse.
BTW. I want to applaud your facility with transliteration. >>
Hi Col.Jessop!
You've made me think of many things (including Laverne and Shirley FWIW).
If you make a good profit selling off your own dreck (in my case early acquisitions bought at a good $), properly described and priced, is it...actually dreck?
Eric
What is the difference between dreck and dross?
<< <i>What is the difference between dreck and dross? >>
The last three letters?
<< <i>One man's dreck is another man's dreck. >>
I agree!
-Dan
<< <i>Ranking coin quality for the grade:
Oy vey!
schlock
gut
Mazel tov!
Much easier to remember than A-B-C.
Good idea.
I go with
to je govno
Is this coin going to bite me if I pick it up?
Average for the grade
Nice
Otimo
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It's not just with coins. The same can be said about the ladies. Case in point...
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"