Michigan Show - Day 1 (Day 2 update addded)

Wingsrule

Today was the first day of the annual Michigan State Numismatic Society (MSNS) show in the Detroit area. Starting off mostly overcast and gray, the sun peaked out just as I pulled into the parking lot at the Macomb Community College Sports & Expo center. This is the first year in its new location given the uncertainty of the Hyatt in Dearborn, and I think everybody was anxious to see how it turned out.

My first impression – impressive! The area seemed much more open than the Hyatt, and lighting (given that it is a sports arena) was considerably brighter. The only downfall was negotiating the ‘speed bumps’ in the aisles covering all the electrical cords running to the tables.

Showed up at 9 and got an early bird badge, just because. Wandered up and down a few of the aisles and ran into Todd and MJ at Todd’s booth. After the normal pleasantries, continued making my way around and did pick up a few trinkets that probably would have been gobbled up prior to the regular opening at 10:00.

Speaking of 10:00 – did anyone notice the jump in silver and gold at about 10:02? I know the reason – I sold some silver at Silvertowne’s table about 5 minutes before that spike!

I noticed a constant stream of people around the tables and business appeared to be good. The only oddity was a general lack of lines at Silvertowne’s table. In past shows, you usually had to wait several people deep to get service.

Appeared to be quite a bit of generic gold offered but not much silver at all. There were a few bargains to be found if you looked hard enough.

Completed a very smooth deal with segoja (as usual) while listening to MadMarty in the background just talking about food. Spotted a few others in passing, but mostly while they had their heads buried in dealer cases.

All in all, it was worth the longer drive, and I may make another trip there tomorrow depending on the weather.

Now it’s time to go update the picks for the week!

derryb

A coin show report with a PM perspective. Thanks!

ricko

Good report, thanks. I was wondering about the spike in silver, thanks for clearing that up.....
Cheers, RickO

Justacommeman

Tacking onto Wingrule's Report.

Mark, it was great to see you as alway. You are da man.

ASE's @ about $3.50+ over spot

Libertad rolls @ $720.00 for 1982's and 1983's. Dave Navarro had one 2012 roll @ $3.50 over spot

While there was a lot of generic gold there was no larger format gold bars. I was looking for Fortuna's or odd sized gold bars. Zip.

The cheapest American Gold eagles I saw was +$75 over spot

WR, Silvertowne got a little busier after you left. I think part of the issue was everyone was so used to their location at the Hyatt. There they were the Northern Star in the corner. At this show they were in the middle of the vast oasis.

The one guy that had very collectable Engelhard odd sized bars (4/7oz etc) was so high on prices that it bordered on the obscene.

I actually caught a break this morning as most of my buys were before 9:15 as I had dealer credentials and was able to hit the bourse at 8:00. Therefore I got in before the price spike.......... not that it matters a lot in the grand scheme of things.

This thread needs some pics. My show buys......................MJ

I bought @23.8 FV (most dealers were closer to 26X). In retrospect I should have bought all they had. It really was a great price and I dropped the ball ( actually 23.8X face was Apmex's BUY price this a.m.).



A stack of 10 oz Engelhard's. Average price paid was $353.00. Just a touch over $1.50 spot at time of purchase.



I have a weakness for these 5 ozers. Paid too much at $200 but I was happy with the buy prices of everything else so I justified the buy because I'm weak.



Hoffman and Hoffman bar. Paid a fair premium I thought.



If anything collectable comes in a box I'm a sucker for them. This is a 5.55 oz Handy and Harman .999 bar with nice patina.

MilesWaits

Thanks for the reports, people!

And great pics of some mighty fine silver, MJ. Damn nice patina and a box!

Miles

Wingsrule

Looks like you did well, MJ.

OPA

It's refreshing to see a show report in the PM Forum. Thanks, WR & MJ for sharing it.

piecesofme

The one guy that had very collectable Engelhard odd sized bars (4/7oz etc) was so high on prices that it bordered on the obscene.

If you give me 2 guesses, I think I can get it right who he was.

$200 for the old pour bullhorn 5 oz Eng. and you think that's too much??? Damn MJ, i'll give you $240 right now. Oh, that's right, my money is no good with you. darn it.

Thanks for the reports guys. I was considering making the very long drive but being it's over a holiday weekend the thought of my wife killing me when I got back was not what I wanted to look forward to. Besides, there's a smaller much more local one I'm headed off to right now today.

Wingsrule

Day 2 seemed very slow. There was a steady stream of people coming in, but I was there for about 2 hours and never had to wait to get to a table. Even less silver and gold for sale today, although everyone I spoke to said it had been a good (or very good) show for them.

Barndog

I haven't seen a poured Engelhard locally for months!

piecesofme

Day 2 seemed very slow. There was a steady stream of people coming in, but I was there for about 2 hours and never had to wait to get to a table. Even less silver and gold for sale today, although everyone I spoke to said it had been a good (or very good) show for them

I don't know, just seems kind of silly to have a show of any size over an extended holiday weekend, esp. the most travled one there is. jmho

The local show I went to was a morgue. They opened at 9 AM, we got there about Noon and we were the only "customers" in the place, no joking.
It's typically about a 20 dealer show and only 9 were there. Talked to everyone of them and every one was dissapointed calling it pretty much a waste of their time.
What really sucked is I had the place to myself and there wasn't anything I was even interested in lol. Didn't even buy a single thing and I didn't even offer the few things I was going to try and sell.

Justacommeman

<< <i>Day 2 seemed very slow. There was a steady stream of people coming in, but I was there for about 2 hours and never had to wait to get to a table. Even less silver and gold for sale today, although everyone I spoke to said it had been a good (or very good) show for them

I don't know, just seems kind of silly to have a show of any size over an extended holiday weekend, esp. the most travled one there is. jmho

The local show I went to was a morgue. They opened at 9 AM, we got there about Noon and we were the only "customers" in the place, no joking.
It's typically about a 20 dealer show and only 9 were there. Talked to everyone of them and every one was dissapointed calling it pretty much a waste of their time.
What really sucked is I had the place to myself and there wasn't anything I was even interested in lol. Didn't even buy a single thing and I didn't even offer the few things I was going to try and sell. >>



This show is always every Friday through Sunday after Thanksgiving. It's a tradition and the crowds come out in full force on Friday and usually Saturday morning. Since the Michigan-Ohio State game is also always held at noon the Saturday after Thanksgiving the crowd starts thinning out at 11-11:30 am. This year you also had a new venue to add to the mix. I'm sure lots of folks went to the old location which is nowhere near the new venue. Sunday has always been a non event.

The timing of this show has always been a P.I.T.A for out of state dealers but for some it's a huge revenue generator so they bite the bullet. In my opinion it's always been a top heavy PM show as opposed to numismatic coins. At least from my perspective.

MJ

piecesofme

Got it MJ, helps to see it in a better perspective, thanks for the experienced take on it.
I've never been, but wanted to this year. But it's just too far for me. I'd have to have a lost weekend to justify it, and if i'm gonna have one of them, it's not going to be Detroit lol.

Justacommeman

<< <i>Got it MJ, helps to see it in a better perspective, thanks for the experienced take on it.
I've never been, but wanted to this year. But it's just too far for me. I'd have to have a lost weekend to justify it, and if i'm gonna have one of them, it's not going to be Detroit lol. >>



You should try to come to one not that I need the competition for PM related stuff. Wingsrule is already a thorn in my side.

MJ

Wingsrule

Awwww!

piecesofme

MJ...please turn on your messages to accept my messages, seriously all bs aside. I have a question I want to ask you privately about the guy selling 4 & 7 oz Engs.
Post here when/if you've done so. thanx

Justacommeman

<< <i>MJ...please turn on your messages to accept my messages, seriously all bs aside. I have a question I want to ask you privately about the guy selling 4 & 7 oz Engs.
Post here when/if you've done so. thanx >>



I really don't know these guys although I see them at the two Michigan Shows. The prices are marked so high that I don't waste my time. They seem to have the same bars every show. I think Mark may be the better choice to ask about them. MJ

OnlyGoldIsMoney

MJ, you did well with the Engelhard 5 oz at $200 along with the 10 oz poured bars at $1.50 over.

At the Baltimore show this month I spoke to a Michigan PM dealer who owns some 4 oz and 7 oz Engelhards. Its probably a different dealer than the one you referenced. The one I am thinking of never offers 4 oz or 7 oz bars for sale but was prepared to purchase 4 oz Engelhards for $1,500.

Justacommeman

<< <i>MJ, you did well with the Engelhard 5 oz at $200 along with the 10 oz poured bars at $1.50 over.

At the Baltimore show this month I spoke to a Michigan PM dealer who owns some 4 oz and 7 oz Engelhards. Its probably a different dealer than the one you referenced. The one I am thinking of never offers 4 oz or 7 oz bars for sale but was prepared to purchase 4 oz Engelhards for $1,500. >>



Yes different. I'm guessing you may have spoke to Dave Narravo (Hawaiian shirt). Dave has a small stash of 4 and 7 ozers in his personal collection. I spoke to him about selling me his dupes but all of them are different varieties. Being a collector at heart he won't sell any of them because of that. Yes he pays up.

He did sell me my 5 oz Engelhard gold bar as it was a dupe. Dave is an awesome part time dealer but a collector at heart and has the passion.

I like Dave a lot.

MJ

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>

<< <i>MJ, you did well with the Engelhard 5 oz at $200 along with the 10 oz poured bars at $1.50 over.

At the Baltimore show this month I spoke to a Michigan PM dealer who owns some 4 oz and 7 oz Engelhards. Its probably a different dealer than the one you referenced. The one I am thinking of never offers 4 oz or 7 oz bars for sale but was prepared to purchase 4 oz Engelhards for $1,500. >>



Yes different. I'm guessing you may have spoke to Dave Narravo (Hawaiian shirt). Dave has a small stash of 4 and 7 ozers in his personal collection. I spoke to him about selling me his dupes but all of them are different varieties. Being a collector at heart he won't sell any of them because of that. Yes he pays up.

He did sell me my 5 oz Engelhard gold bar as it was a dupe. Dave is an awesome part time dealer but a collector at heart and has the passion.

I like Dave a lot.

MJ >>




Indeed, it was Dave Narravo. At shows I enjoy chatting with Dave and his colleague Steve about old poured bars. Dave is notably fair with his pricing.

piecesofme

My guess would not have been Dave Navarro (never met him).
The guy i'm thinking of has reddish/orange/grayish hair and hasn' returned 1 of my calls that I tried to set him up with a potential seller. I know his name and number, but I guess he wasn't as serious of a player as I thought he said he was when I bought a 25 oz Eng from his at the C.S. show a couple months ago.
He had some absolutely INCREDIBLE bars at that show, but I havent heard BOO from him since.

He "lurks". I don't know if that means he is banned from here or just doesn't want to get into the drama part of being a member here lol, I didn't ask.

Wingsrule

I will second (and third) the above commments about Dave. Top notch. Pricing is very fair on both the buy and sell side.

1970SilverArt

<< <i>Day 2 seemed very slow. There was a steady stream of people coming in, but I was there for about 2 hours and never had to wait to get to a table. Even less silver and gold for sale today, although everyone I spoke to said it had been a good (or very good) show for them

I don't know, just seems kind of silly to have a show of any size over an extended holiday weekend, esp. the most travled one there is. jmho

The local show I went to was a morgue. They opened at 9 AM, we got there about Noon and we were the only "customers" in the place, no joking.
It's typically about a 20 dealer show and only 9 were there. Talked to everyone of them and every one was dissapointed calling it pretty much a waste of their time.
What really sucked is I had the place to myself and there wasn't anything I was even interested in lol. Didn't even buy a single thing and I didn't even offer the few things I was going to try and sell. >>



Do not feel too bad about that because I also was very disappointed as a silver art bar collector. Yesterday I went to 2 coin shows. Both of the coin shows had less than 20 tables. I call those small coin shows with a table count of 20 or less a "hit or miss" coin show since there is a greater probability that I will not find what I am looking for (a miss) vs. the probability that I will find what I am looking for (a hit). Yesterday those 2 coin shows qualified as "hit or miss" coin shows and, in my case, those 2 show were a "miss" since I did not find any silver art bars that I was interested in adding to my collection. I struck out on both of those coin shows yesterday. This was very disappointing to me but I cannot win them all. I will just try harder at the next coin show that I go to.

1970SilverArt

Thank you for the coin show report MJ and Wingsrule. I like reading coin show reports from other posters in different parts of the U.S.

Wingsrule

1970SA - you set the standard, we're just trying to keep the streak going.

1970SilverArt

<< <i>1970SA - you set the standard, we're just trying to keep the streak going. >>



Thanks for the compliment. I actually did my very first coin show report on another forum before I joined here. At that time that I did my first ever coin show report, I thought that it was a good idea to do one since I see a lot of different prices on PM's during the 2 to 3 hours that I spend at a large coin show looking for silver art bars. I do the best that I can and I try to paint a picture of the kind of premiums that are being charged at some medium and large coin shows in a certain region of the U.S. I do not do many coin show reports and when I do a report, I concentrate on the large coin shows that I go to because there are many more dealers competing for customers and I get a better feel for what the true premiums that the dealers are currently charging.