<< <i>If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*
Exactly, I agree. That’s why at that point I would want the most face value between the 2 coins. Thank you for helping me make my point.
Also, some have brought in other Metals and how they would be better, that’s fine but that is not what we are talking about. We are specifically talking about ASE vs. Maple. Thanks for staying on topic. >>
the key word is value & how u define it... the true "value" in/of silver in the coin is not based upon the designated fiat/government assigned dollar "value", the value is in the silver...
the designated or minted govt value is meaningless, proven in the old days when silver went down to .29 an oz, and i think currently when the canadian banks would not give $20 fiat canadian paper for the minted $20 canadian silver coin...which is approx 1/4 oz silver and less valuable than $20...
I'll still take $5 redeemed over $1 redeemed any day of the week and twice on paydays. The key word in my title of this thread is "simplified". You guys are reading things into it that may or may not happen. As it stands TODAY, it's $5 vs. $1. I'll take $5 please, thank you CA for your generosity.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Silver is silver. I think in a SHTF scenario, people will be smart enough to realize that. Regardless of any number stamped into the silver.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>Silver is silver. I think in a SHTF scenario, people will be smart enough to realize that. Regardless of any number stamped into the silver.
>>
Exactly. In a SHTF, it would make no difference whether it's Cook Islands $20 1 oz, a Canadian $5 1 oz or a 1 oz silver round. If lucky, they might be worth bullion or worthless.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i> Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.
Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.
Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me... >>
Because no one who stacks silver believes it's value will go to zero. There is a much better chance the dollars will go to zero value than the silver. Personally (and I assume at least some others as well) prefer ASEs because they are backed by the US Govt. This means they are backed by the Secret Service against counterfeiting. I do not think it is coincidence that while ASEs are the most recognizable and widely produced bullion coin, I have still not seen any fakes. However I have seen several examples of faked maples in the last 2 years.
EDIT to add: And dont forget the milk spotting issues on CMLs! A lot of collectors stay away from them purely because of that. Taking that into account in addition to what I said above and what a previous commenter said about Canadian population around 30 mil and US population over 300 mil, that provides enough demand difference to justify the increased premium for ASEs. In your last post you pointed out that this thread is about a simplified argument based purely on a face value comparison, but the question you posed is why the premiums on ASEs are higher than CMLs. The answer to that question is all of the reasons that are not included in the simplified face value comparison.
Collectors pay premium over melt for "coolness" which is a combination of appearance (beauty or novelty of design, condition, patina), age/historical significance, and converging collector interest (items with Coca Cola, guns, old west, or other crossover interest, Mickey Mouse or other popular culture characters, images of women, eagles, dragons, other wildlife or fantasy images, for example) and rarity of the item versus the aggregate demand. All these together make up a perceived market value at a specific time or place, which may vary and provide arbitrage or mark-up activity for those traders who can move the product to a higher value venue at a profit.
Silver eagles are nice looking but ordinary. The older maples with younger Queen E look better than the new ones, Imo. Brittanias, Philharmonics, Pandas, etc. Collect em all, some of them come with genuine certificates of authenticity, in various sizes. Some items have face value novelty, ASEs are dollars, but the five ounce "coins" are quarter dollars. The maples are fivers.
The only scenario I can see that would cause the price of silver to be less than five U.S. dollars is if the dollar is revalued so that one new dollar = 10 or more old dollars.
Under that circumstance, the $5 Maple Leaf would be worth more than the $1 Silver Eagle, but (here's the catch) only if Canada revalued its dollar in the same ratio as the U.S. revaluation, and only if the Canadian dollar remained at near-parity with the U.S. dollar.
Otherwise, the "better" coin would depend on how much the U.S. and Canadian dollars are worth, relative to each other.
In a revaluation scenario, U.S. or Canadian base metal coins would be the likely winners. Such coins would likely be revalued as "new" dollars (or fractions thereof), since they are not that big a factor in the overall money supply. The alternative would be to call in, demonetize and replace all the circulating coinage, a messy process at best.
Comments
<< <i>If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*
Exactly, I agree. That’s why at that point I would want the most face value between the 2 coins. Thank you for helping me make my point.
Also, some have brought in other Metals and how they would be better, that’s fine but that is not what we are talking about. We are specifically talking about ASE vs. Maple. Thanks for staying on topic. >>
the key word is value & how u define it... the true "value" in/of silver in the coin is not based upon the designated fiat/government assigned dollar "value",
the value is in the silver...
the designated or minted govt value is meaningless, proven in the old days when silver went down to .29 an oz, and i think currently when the canadian banks would not give $20 fiat canadian paper for the minted $20 canadian silver coin...which is approx 1/4 oz silver and less valuable than $20...
so i guess its real simple...
The key word in my title of this thread is "simplified". You guys are reading things into it that may or may not happen.
As it stands TODAY, it's $5 vs. $1. I'll take $5 please, thank you CA for your generosity.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>Silver is silver. I think in a SHTF scenario, people will be smart enough to realize that. Regardless of any number stamped into the silver.
Exactly. In a SHTF, it would make no difference whether it's Cook Islands $20 1 oz, a Canadian $5 1 oz or a 1 oz silver round. If lucky, they might be worth bullion or worthless.
<< <i>
Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.
Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.
Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me... >>
Because no one who stacks silver believes it's value will go to zero. There is a much better chance the dollars will go to zero value than the silver. Personally (and I assume at least some others as well) prefer ASEs because they are backed by the US Govt. This means they are backed by the Secret Service against counterfeiting. I do not think it is coincidence that while ASEs are the most recognizable and widely produced bullion coin, I have still not seen any fakes. However I have seen several examples of faked maples in the last 2 years.
EDIT to add: And dont forget the milk spotting issues on CMLs! A lot of collectors stay away from them purely because of that. Taking that into account in addition to what I said above and what a previous commenter said about Canadian population around 30 mil and US population over 300 mil, that provides enough demand difference to justify the increased premium for ASEs. In your last post you pointed out that this thread is about a simplified argument based purely on a face value comparison, but the question you posed is why the premiums on ASEs are higher than CMLs. The answer to that question is all of the reasons that are not included in the simplified face value comparison.
Silver eagles are nice looking but ordinary. The older maples with younger Queen E look better than the new ones, Imo. Brittanias, Philharmonics, Pandas, etc. Collect em all, some of them come with genuine certificates of authenticity, in various sizes. Some items have face value novelty, ASEs are dollars, but the five ounce "coins" are quarter dollars. The maples are fivers.
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Under that circumstance, the $5 Maple Leaf would be worth more than the $1 Silver Eagle, but (here's the catch) only if Canada revalued its dollar in the same ratio as the U.S. revaluation, and only if the Canadian dollar remained at near-parity with the U.S. dollar.
Otherwise, the "better" coin would depend on how much the U.S. and Canadian dollars are worth, relative to each other.
In a revaluation scenario, U.S. or Canadian base metal coins would be the likely winners. Such coins would likely be revalued as "new" dollars (or fractions thereof), since they are not that big a factor in the overall money supply. The alternative would be to call in, demonetize and replace all the circulating coinage, a messy process at best.
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