The Silver Eagle vs. Maple Leaf argument simplified

piecesofme · November 11, 2012 9:37AM

This is what you get with an ASE:
1 oz of .999 Silver, probably the better design of the two and it's worth $1 here in the US if Silver goes to $0 where a Dollar is worth less than in Canada.

This is what you get with a Maple leaf:
1 oz of .9999 Silver (purer), a cool reverse proof design, it's worth $5 in Canada. So if silver goes to $0 and you're close enough to Canada to do the trip (or even mailing them to someone there) you get $5 where the Dollar has more value.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.

Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me, but thinking of the 2 in these terms, I side on the Maple Leaf side of the debate on what is better to acquire.

Barndog · November 11, 2012 9:40AM

yet the reality is that dealers ask for and typically receive a higher premium above spot for ASE

piecesofme · November 11, 2012 9:41AM

That's what is puzzling to me Barndog.

gsa1fan · November 11, 2012 9:43AM

Supply & demand - nuff said.

Barndog · November 11, 2012 9:44AM

<< That's what is puzzling to me Barndog. >>

some people just ask a one dollar premium and still can't sell the things

piecesofme · November 11, 2012 9:46AM

I actually got $1.40 over today for a roll and was so happy about I almost peed my pants.

DoubleEagle59 · November 11, 2012 9:50AM

Many of your points have 'silver going to $0'.

I must admit, I have never thought of this in my whole life.

derryb · November 11, 2012 9:54AM

<< Many of your points have 'silver going to $0'.

I must admit, I have never thought of this in my whole life. >>

the economy is improving - last week he had it going below $30.

secondrepublic · November 11, 2012 10:01AM

If silver falls to $5 or lower, it's not like people who bought at $30+ will be trading in their Maples for face value. Most will just hold onto them. So, it's pretty much a moot point.

piecesofme · November 11, 2012 10:29AM

Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night.

gsa1fan · November 11, 2012 10:34AM

derryb · November 11, 2012 10:36AM

<< Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>

apologies, forgot you take everything serious.

Justacommeman · November 11, 2012 10:46AM

<< Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>

Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ

gsa1fan · November 11, 2012 10:48AM

cheers~ MJ

Wingsrule · November 11, 2012 11:08AM

Didn't Canada de-monetize some bullion items in the past due to a drop in spot price? If I rcall correctly, the face value was greater than the underlying metal value. Olypmic coins or commens, maybe?

MilesWaits · November 11, 2012 11:24AM

<< 

<< Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>

apologies, forgot you take everything serious. >>

OK, that was a record of some sort, that only took 10 posts to unhinge the quickly unhinged.....

"Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ"

MJ, where do you get those rapid fire lines? This is like a CU comedy skit. Thank you all for the Pre-Veterans Day PM relief.

nibanny · November 11, 2012 11:27AM

<< Didn't Canada de-monetize some bullion items in the past due to a drop in spot price? If I rcall correctly, the face value was greater than the underlying metal value. Olypmic coins or commens, maybe? >>

Correct! The Olympics were de-monetized.
Also, banks in Canada are not supposed to accept NLTC, I read that you need to get them in contact with the RCM if you want to cash your silver at face value. I think DoubleEagle59 mention it in another thread.

Konahead · November 11, 2012 11:31AM

<< 

<< Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>

Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ >>

Weiss · November 11, 2012 12:25PM

There are 34.5 million Canadians.

There are 311.5 million Americans.

The US dollar is used as the official currency in at least three other countries in addition to the US possessions. It's pegged to the currencies of 25 other countries, and is used unofficially as a hard currency in at least 10 other countries--probably many more.

I'd wager at least a couple of billion people on the planet know and trust the US dollar and would recognize its value. That is a very powerful reason to opt for the eagle over the maple.

Within the last 10 years, the Canadian dollar was "worth" as little as $.60 in US dollars. That's another.

FWIW, if you're interested in protection against deflation in the value of silver there is probably no better tool than 40% silver halves. With a face value of $.50 each and only .14792 ounces of silver per coin, your ounce of silver would have a face value of $3.34 an ounce. That's in US dollars, with the same if not better recognition that eagles offer.

Justacommeman · November 11, 2012 12:50PM

The Canadian Banks are amongst the safest in world. The US Banks, not so much

The Canadian dollar is apt to continue to outperform the dollar for a long time. If the US Stock market crashes then dollar will outperform loonie. Outside of that, doubtful

The Canadians have a much better handle on their debt then their US brethren. Much better

The Cando is a proxie to oil and pm's. The US dollar is a proxie to debt.

Canadian chicks rock. So do the red. white and blue.

As for the Maple Leaf vs the Eagle I don't think it much matters

Waiting for the cohodk rebuttal

MJ

calleocho · November 11, 2012 2:23PM

I wonder how much of the economic fate of Canada is tied to the US being the world biggest economy...

besides its cold...I would think that Brazil might make a better bet long term, better weather and the women ...well...at the very least , much better dancers.

carew4me · November 11, 2012 11:30PM

Stack em both for maximum enlightenment.

guitarwes · November 11, 2012 11:38PM

It's all about recognition and what's tied to whom.

piecesofme · November 12, 2012 12:41AM

It's all about recognition and what's tied to whom

If someone doesn't know what a Maple Leaf is, they probably shouldn't be purchasing any form of silver imo.

Glad to see this is getting some civil discussion , as it was intended to, without cheap shots being flung just because of who the idea to discuss it was from.

guitarwes · November 12, 2012 12:59AM

One has to realize that (at least in my geographic area) 1 in 10 people don't really know or care about precious metals or what form that might be the best to buy with the best premium when selling. That 1 person may or may not have a favorite government minted silver round but if they are from the US it's probably gonna be a Silver Eagle just going on purpose or lack of knowledge of purity/face value. Here comes the supply and demand issue. More people buying Eagles than Maples, therefore a bigger premium is attached regardless of the purity and face value. Plus, I think they're more recognizable to the common silver buyer in the US.

Not everyone outside of this forum keeps up with precious metal forms, fashions, and trends like we do.

Edited to Add: "If someone doesn't know what a Maple Leaf is, they probably shouldn't be purchasing any form of silver imo."

I agree.

vibr0nic · November 12, 2012 3:34AM

$0 per ounce implies that either a) silver has become utterly worthless or b) the dollar is of infinite value.

Is that really what you mean, pieces? Such hypotheticals are rather unrealistic, are they not?

cohodk · November 12, 2012 6:14AM

I would rather have the Maple Leaf. Silver is silver. Why pay a premium. If TSHTF, you will never recoup that premium.

piecesofme · November 12, 2012 7:44AM

I would rather have the Maple Leaf. Silver is silver. Why pay a premium. If TSHTF, you will never recoup that premium.

Which is my point. If the s does htf, you'll have more at face value with a Maple than with an Eagle.

$0 per ounce implies that either a) silver has become utterly worthless or b) the dollar is of infinite value

If you know anyone old enough that lived thru the Great Depression, ask them if they thought what happened could've before it did.

derryb · November 12, 2012 8:05AM

until silver trades for less than $5, it doesn't matter if the one oz. coin says $1 or $5. The worse the economy becomes and the more the currency is destroyed the higher the dollar price for an oz. of silver. Looking just at dollar destruction since 1964 a 1964 Kennedy half has not been and will not ever be worth less than fifty cents.

Until silver can be made from cheeze, $1 and $5 and even fifty cent denominations are irrelevant. In a SHTF scenario previously paid premiums will be peanuts not even worth calculating.

<< If you know anyone old enough that lived thru the Great Depression, ask them if they thought what happened could've before it did. >>

and also ask them if they heeded the warnings and prepared themselves.

nibanny · November 12, 2012 8:33AM

While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins.

Justacommeman · November 12, 2012 8:41AM

If silver goes to $0 then the 5 ounce pucks will come into play since they are valued at a quarter. Gunna need some awfully big cash registers. MJ

piecesofme · November 12, 2012 8:44AM

You see, we're discussing this in a civil manner now. Isn't this nice

That's all it was, something to talk about as things have gotten a little stale here lately imho.
I actually heard this debate going on at a local coin show yesterday and wanted to pitch the idea here to see what discussion it would bring.

57loaded · November 12, 2012 8:45AM

<< This is what you get with an ASE:
1 oz of .999 Silver, probably the better design of the two and it's worth $1 here in the US if Silver goes to $0 where a Dollar is worth less than in Canada.

This is what you get with a Maple leaf:
1 oz of .9999 Silver (purer), a cool reverse proof design, it's worth $5 in Canada. So if silver goes to $0 and you're close enough to Canada to do the trip (or even mailing them to someone there) you get $5 where the Dollar has more value.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.

Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me, but thinking of the 2 in these terms, I side on the Maple Leaf side of the debate on what is better to acquire. >>

If you are saying SHTF. Do you want Maple Leafs or ASE, I think it's a no brainer for the Great White North silver. Premium over spot (if there still is a paper market) would vanish or at least be insignificant, IMHO.

Me agree

derryb · November 12, 2012 9:32AM

don't forget that known counterfeit silver Maples are out there.

SHTF? Fractional silver (90%) will be king.

DoubleEagle59 · November 12, 2012 9:57AM

<< While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins. >>

To quote you from above...."Bringing up the face value topic may make sense".

Are you guys really considering this?

Listen....just think OUNCES, not face value when you buy gold or silver.

nibanny · November 12, 2012 10:09AM

<< 

<< While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins. >>

To quote you from above...."Bringing up the face value topic may make sense".

Are you guys really considering this?

Listen....just think OUNCES, not face value when you buy gold or silver. >>

You are correct, I do not care about the face value, just said in this topic it may make sense.

nibanny · November 12, 2012 10:11AM

<< don't forget that known counterfeit silver Maples are out there.

SHTF? Fractional silver (90%) will be king. >>

IMHO, gold will be the king. (in the US probably after bullets)

Wingsrule · November 12, 2012 10:18AM

Canada changed the rules with the stroke of a pen before, why would it be different this time as silver headed to $0?

piecesofme · November 12, 2012 10:30AM

Canada changed the rules with the stroke of a pen before, why would it be different this time as silver headed to $0?

Just the way the CME raises margin requirements every time silver gets on a run.

DrBuster · November 12, 2012 10:56AM

The appropriate brass to silver round ratio is........?

roadrunner · November 12, 2012 11:58AM

The counterfeit gold and silver maple leafs have terrible inner leaf detail. If you see it one time you'll never be fooled again. They aren't even close.

But here's something new for the 2013 gold maple that will deter the counterfeiters. I don't know if this is available on the silver maples.
That's a huge plus imo on the 24k gold maple vs 22k AGE/24k gold buff discussion.

Lasered security feature on 2013 gold maples .....why didn't they just laser in an "omega"......

nibanny · November 12, 2012 12:06PM

Thanks for bringing the news here, RR.
I think it is a cool feature and confirm the innovative path taken by the RCM.

JohnnyCache · November 12, 2012 12:08PM

The lower the price of silver, the more people will be stacking lead.
Lead with a brass casing that is.

Overdate · November 12, 2012 6:11PM

If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*

*(Seller to pay shipping)

piecesofme · November 12, 2012 10:10PM

That's some great info. roadrunner, Thanks for sharing. The only thing is I bet there'll be a nice premium added onto the coin now for having that feature.
Too bad they couldn't show a close-up of it.

nibanny · November 12, 2012 11:52PM

<< That's some great info. roadrunner, Thanks for sharing. The only thing is I bet there'll be a nice premium added onto the coin now for having that feature.
Too bad they couldn't show a close-up of it. >>

No extra premium since it will be the new standard.
You can see the close-up on the Apmex website.

nibanny · November 13, 2012 12:04AM

piecesofme · November 13, 2012 12:54AM

If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*

Exactly, I agree. That’s why at that point I would want the most face value between the 2 coins. Thank you for helping me make my point.

Also, some have brought in other Metals and how they would be better, that’s fine but that is not what we are talking about. We are specifically talking about ASE vs. Maple. Thanks for staying on topic.

richardshipp · November 13, 2012 5:24AM

poor lead... gets no respect

derryb · November 13, 2012 5:27AM

appears the argument is no longer simplifed.

coindeuce · November 24, 2012 2:03PM

If silver ever crashed to $0 as a result of TSHTF, you can count on CANADA/USA having closed borders, or at the very least severe restrictions on cross border travel. If I was a resident/citizen of Canada, the Maple would be O.K., but up there guns/ammo and dried goods would be far more practical than ounces of silver marked $5. Maybe those pieces of silver marked $5 would be good for barter with the aboriginals for dried fish and caribou.

The Silver Eagle vs. Maple Leaf argument simplified

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