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The Silver Eagle vs. Maple Leaf argument simplified

piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
This is what you get with an ASE:
1 oz of .999 Silver, probably the better design of the two and it's worth $1 here in the US if Silver goes to $0 where a Dollar is worth less than in Canada.

This is what you get with a Maple leaf:
1 oz of .9999 Silver (purer), a cool reverse proof design, it's worth $5 in Canada. So if silver goes to $0 and you're close enough to Canada to do the trip (or even mailing them to someone there) you get $5 where the Dollar has more value.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.

Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.

Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me, but thinking of the 2 in these terms, I side on the Maple Leaf side of the debate on what is better to acquire.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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Comments

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yet the reality is that dealers ask for and typically receive a higher premium above spot for ASE image
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  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    That's what is puzzling to me Barndog.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Supply & demand - nuff said.
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,500 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That's what is puzzling to me Barndog. >>



    some people just ask a one dollar premium and still can't sell the things image
    JR Newsletter Online Edition
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    I actually got $1.40 over today for a roll and was so happy about I almost peed my pants. image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many of your points have 'silver going to $0'.

    I must admit, I have never thought of this in my whole life.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,020 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Many of your points have 'silver going to $0'.

    I must admit, I have never thought of this in my whole life. >>


    the economy is improving - last week he had it going below $30. image

    Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL

  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    If silver falls to $5 or lower, it's not like people who bought at $30+ will be trading in their Maples for face value. Most will just hold onto them. So, it's pretty much a moot point.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    image
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,020 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>


    apologies, forgot you take everything serious.

    Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>



    Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    image cheers~ MJimage
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭✭
    Didn't Canada de-monetize some bullion items in the past due to a drop in spot price? If I rcall correctly, the face value was greater than the underlying metal value. Olypmic coins or commens, maybe?
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>


    apologies, forgot you take everything serious. >>



    OK, that was a record of some sort, that only took 10 posts to unhinge the quickly unhinged.....


    "Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ"

    MJ, where do you get those rapid fire lines? This is like a CU comedy skit. Thank you all for the Pre-Veterans Day PM relief.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>Didn't Canada de-monetize some bullion items in the past due to a drop in spot price? If I rcall correctly, the face value was greater than the underlying metal value. Olypmic coins or commens, maybe? >>



    Correct! The Olympics were de-monetized.
    Also, banks in Canada are not supposed to accept NLTC, I read that you need to get them in contact with the RCM if you want to cash your silver at face value. I think DoubleEagle59 mention it in another thread.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • KonaheadKonahead Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Some of you guys are really jerks, ya know. can't even consider something for a civil discussion. I'm done. Good night. >>



    Sleep well. You can always come back for more in the morning. MJ >>





    imageimage
    PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.

    Fred, Las Vegas, NV
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are 34.5 million Canadians.

    There are 311.5 million Americans.

    The US dollar is used as the official currency in at least three other countries in addition to the US possessions. It's pegged to the currencies of 25 other countries, and is used unofficially as a hard currency in at least 10 other countries--probably many more.

    I'd wager at least a couple of billion people on the planet know and trust the US dollar and would recognize its value. That is a very powerful reason to opt for the eagle over the maple.

    Within the last 10 years, the Canadian dollar was "worth" as little as $.60 in US dollars. That's another.

    FWIW, if you're interested in protection against deflation in the value of silver there is probably no better tool than 40% silver halves. With a face value of $.50 each and only .14792 ounces of silver per coin, your ounce of silver would have a face value of $3.34 an ounce. That's in US dollars, with the same if not better recognition that eagles offer.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Canadian Banks are amongst the safest in world. The US Banks, not so much

    The Canadian dollar is apt to continue to outperform the dollar for a long time. If the US Stock market crashes then dollar will outperform loonie. Outside of that, doubtful

    The Canadians have a much better handle on their debt then their US brethren. Much better

    The Cando is a proxie to oil and pm's. The US dollar is a proxie to debt.

    Canadian chicks rock. So do the red. white and blue.

    As for the Maple Leaf vs the Eagle I don't think it much matters

    Waiting for the cohodk rebuttal

    MJ

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    I wonder how much of the economic fate of Canada is tied to the US being the world biggest economy...

    besides its cold...I would think that Brazil might make a better bet long term, better weather and the women ...well...at the very least , much better dancers.
    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭✭
    Stack em both for maximum enlightenment.

    Loves me some shiny!
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭
    It's all about recognition and what's tied to whom.
    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    It's all about recognition and what's tied to whom

    If someone doesn't know what a Maple Leaf is, they probably shouldn't be purchasing any form of silver imo.

    Glad to see this is getting some civil discussion , as it was intended to, without cheap shots being flung just because of who the idea to discuss it was from. image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭
    One has to realize that (at least in my geographic area) 1 in 10 people don't really know or care about precious metals or what form that might be the best to buy with the best premium when selling. That 1 person may or may not have a favorite government minted silver round but if they are from the US it's probably gonna be a Silver Eagle just going on purpose or lack of knowledge of purity/face value. Here comes the supply and demand issue. More people buying Eagles than Maples, therefore a bigger premium is attached regardless of the purity and face value. Plus, I think they're more recognizable to the common silver buyer in the US.

    Not everyone outside of this forum keeps up with precious metal forms, fashions, and trends like we do.


    Edited to Add: "If someone doesn't know what a Maple Leaf is, they probably shouldn't be purchasing any form of silver imo."

    I agree.
    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • vibr0nicvibr0nic Posts: 614 ✭✭✭
    $0 per ounce implies that either a) silver has become utterly worthless or b) the dollar is of infinite value.

    Is that really what you mean, pieces? Such hypotheticals are rather unrealistic, are they not?

    I like large size currency and silver dollars.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would rather have the Maple Leaf. Silver is silver. Why pay a premium. If TSHTF, you will never recoup that premium.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    I would rather have the Maple Leaf. Silver is silver. Why pay a premium. If TSHTF, you will never recoup that premium.

    Which is my point. If the s does htf, you'll have more at face value with a Maple than with an Eagle.

    $0 per ounce implies that either a) silver has become utterly worthless or b) the dollar is of infinite value

    If you know anyone old enough that lived thru the Great Depression, ask them if they thought what happened could've before it did. image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    until silver trades for less than $5, it doesn't matter if the one oz. coin says $1 or $5. The worse the economy becomes and the more the currency is destroyed the higher the dollar price for an oz. of silver. Looking just at dollar destruction since 1964 a 1964 Kennedy half has not been and will not ever be worth less than fifty cents.

    Until silver can be made from cheeze, $1 and $5 and even fifty cent denominations are irrelevant. In a SHTF scenario previously paid premiums will be peanuts not even worth calculating.



    << <i>If you know anyone old enough that lived thru the Great Depression, ask them if they thought what happened could've before it did. >>


    and also ask them if they heeded the warnings and prepared themselves.

    Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL

  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭
    While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

    I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
    Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

    The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If silver goes to $0 then the 5 ounce pucks will come into play since they are valued at a quarter. Gunna need some awfully big cash registers. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    You see, we're discussing this in a civil manner now. Isn't this nice image
    That's all it was, something to talk about as things have gotten a little stale here lately imho.
    I actually heard this debate going on at a local coin show yesterday and wanted to pitch the idea here to see what discussion it would bring.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is what you get with an ASE:
    1 oz of .999 Silver, probably the better design of the two and it's worth $1 here in the US if Silver goes to $0 where a Dollar is worth less than in Canada.

    This is what you get with a Maple leaf:
    1 oz of .9999 Silver (purer), a cool reverse proof design, it's worth $5 in Canada. So if silver goes to $0 and you're close enough to Canada to do the trip (or even mailing them to someone there) you get $5 where the Dollar has more value.

    Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of ASE's, you have $20.

    Silver goes to $0 and you have a roll of Maples, you have $125.

    Why the premium isn't significantly more for Maple Leafs is puzzling to me, but thinking of the 2 in these terms, I side on the Maple Leaf side of the debate on what is better to acquire. >>



    If you are saying SHTF. Do you want Maple Leafs or ASE, I think it's a no brainer for the Great White North silver. Premium over spot (if there still is a paper market) would vanish or at least be insignificant, IMHO.

    Me agree

    image

  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    don't forget that known counterfeit silver Maples are out there.

    SHTF? Fractional silver (90%) will be king.

    Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

    I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
    Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

    The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins. >>



    To quote you from above...."Bringing up the face value topic may make sense".

    Are you guys really considering this?

    Listen....just think OUNCES, not face value when you buy gold or silver.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>While silver won't probably go to 0, it was $4-ish not long time ago, so bringing up the face value topic may make sense. Though, I doubt we will see Ag below $20 again and I also doubt that any government will allow us to cash any bullion for face value.

    I prefer the finish of the Maples but I like better the design of the ASE, which have more demand worldwide as well (I see them mentioned often in the italian forum I follow).
    Having said that, my favorites are the Philharmonics, their smooth edge is amazing!

    The only problem are the milk spots, that's why I don't stack silver coins. >>



    To quote you from above...."Bringing up the face value topic may make sense".

    Are you guys really considering this?

    Listen....just think OUNCES, not face value when you buy gold or silver. >>



    You are correct, I do not care about the face value, just said in this topic it may make sense.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>don't forget that known counterfeit silver Maples are out there.

    SHTF? Fractional silver (90%) will be king. >>



    IMHO, gold will be the king. (in the US probably after bullets)
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭✭
    Canada changed the rules with the stroke of a pen before, why would it be different this time as silver headed to $0?
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Canada changed the rules with the stroke of a pen before, why would it be different this time as silver headed to $0?

    Just the way the CME raises margin requirements every time silver gets on a run.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The appropriate brass to silver round ratio is........?
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The counterfeit gold and silver maple leafs have terrible inner leaf detail. If you see it one time you'll never be fooled again. They aren't even close.

    But here's something new for the 2013 gold maple that will deter the counterfeiters. I don't know if this is available on the silver maples.
    That's a huge plus imo on the 24k gold maple vs 22k AGE/24k gold buff discussion.

    Lasered security feature on 2013 gold maples .....why didn't they just laser in an "omega"...... image
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭
    Thanks for bringing the news here, RR.
    I think it is a cool feature and confirm the innovative path taken by the RCM.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The lower the price of silver, the more people will be stacking lead.
    Lead with a brass casing that is.

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  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*

    *(Seller to pay shipping) image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    That's some great info. roadrunner, Thanks for sharing. The only thing is I bet there'll be a nice premium added onto the coin now for having that feature.
    Too bad they couldn't show a close-up of it.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>That's some great info. roadrunner, Thanks for sharing. The only thing is I bet there'll be a nice premium added onto the coin now for having that feature.
    Too bad they couldn't show a close-up of it. >>



    No extra premium since it will be the new standard.
    You can see the close-up on the Apmex website.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭
    image
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    If silver goes to $0 I am willing to buy an unlimited number of silver rounds at full spot!*

    Exactly, I agree. That’s why at that point I would want the most face value between the 2 coins. Thank you for helping me make my point. image

    Also, some have brought in other Metals and how they would be better, that’s fine but that is not what we are talking about. We are specifically talking about ASE vs. Maple. Thanks for staying on topic.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    poor lead... gets no respect image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    appears the argument is no longer simplifed.

    Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If silver ever crashed to $0 as a result of TSHTF, you can count on CANADA/USA having closed borders, or at the very least severe restrictions on cross border travel. If I was a resident/citizen of Canada, the Maple would be O.K., but up there guns/ammo and dried goods would be far more practical than ounces of silver marked $5. Maybe those pieces of silver marked $5 would be good for barter with the aboriginals for dried fish and caribou.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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