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Non-Delivery Fraud?
tneig
Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
Noticing how many articles appear on this for coins/PMs, regarding the seller taking the money and not delivering. This could be any seller from an individual to a formal dealer (whatever that criteria is I'm not sure of). Seeing articles weekly about the seller taking the money and not delivering. Or delivering partial and stringing the buyer on. etc.. Seems more blantent...
Perhaps the fraud is no bigger in this arena than other areas of investing. I mean you could lose your money in so many other ways as easy. Ya got to be careful on all fronts.
The PM/coin world sure has lots of traps to be watchful of.
Perhaps the fraud is no bigger in this arena than other areas of investing. I mean you could lose your money in so many other ways as easy. Ya got to be careful on all fronts.
The PM/coin world sure has lots of traps to be watchful of.
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However, I've had 100% success on the BST too. Established people who have been around a while and have done lots of transactions are pretty much always fine.
<< <i>Yes... best is to walk into a trusted dealer/B&M and walk out with the PMs.
However, I've had 100% success on the BST too. Established people who have been around a while and have done lots of transactions are pretty much always fine. >>
Unfortunately, in most sour scenarios, the seller had an established track record even on the BST forum. Never pay anyone via PayPal gift, regardless of their prior record...you are not protected.
Nor does the seller if they accept regular PP from a member with an established track record. I think at some point one has to have some faith that an established member is not going to suddenly turn scammer.
An established seller has more than likely already divulged alot of their personal contact info. out there in the process of doing transactions over a period of time.
One thing I don't like here though is CU is not very helpful, or encouraging may be a better word, when trying to find out the contact info. when one has been burned on a deal. Maybe it's a liability thing?
Bottom line is be thorough...get contact info. before sending funds no matter how you pay for them, or if you're the seller, ask for a mailing address or even the phone number and full name of the person you're embarking on doing a deal with. Ask for references no matter what side of the deal you're on.
Another thing is don't believe everything if only 1 person on a bad deal is giving details. There's always 2 sides and it may end up being a very simple misunderstanding.
Secondrepubllic has is right - the best and safest way is a face-to-face. Outside of that, it's a crap shoot. The vast majority of the time, you have really good odds in your favor. Out of all the transaction I have done on the boards here, there is only one single member that I will never deal with again.
There are a number of well-known and respected members here, with hundreds or even thousands of successful transactions, who had things go against them outside of these boards, and several people here still bear losses because of it.
Why would CU want to get involved? The TOS that we all signed up for state it's not their issue, and you BST here at your own risk. I'm paraphrasing from memory because I haven't read them in awhile, but I would think that message would remain relatively unchanged.
Agree with OPA on the gift thing - how can you claim you never recieved merchandise if you were giving a gift? Absolutely zero recourse. At least with a regular paypal, you always have the ability to challenge the transaction as the facts may indicate; never received item, SNAD, etc.
But around 2010, I started noticing more fakes, scams, non performing sellers and postal thieves being talked about. I began to consider the removal of the liquidity that gave me the confidence to take purchase risks. I've scaled back and rarely ever buy something to "flip" online anymore.
I think scammers here are the infinitesimal minority, but since we can't legally call anyone out it had the unintended consequence of increasing the shenanigans.
Postal thieves are a HUGE part of the problem. Those peoples jobs are now at stake, so they are more willing to risk their pension to make ends meet. They feel burned after all their years of service, and rather than placing blame where it belongs, with their Union, they take a box every now & then to get back at the system.
If you don't think it happens, you are ignorant to the fact that it is, and on a lot more often ocassion.