Do 19th century US coin dies exist in private hands?

Twinturbo

I just read about the carson city mint hoard of cancelled dies

I was wondering if any 19th century US mint dies exist in private hands? Or any sales posted?

Do these dies have issues such as dirt or rust if theyre still intact?

Are they cancelled or un cancelled like the 1996 olympics? Or are they ground off like the state quarter dies sold today? Is it possible that some are uncancelled?

Sorry for all the questions, I found the topic interesting but little information was found.

STONE

Many dies still exist. Several have been recovered from a landfill and restruck blank planchets

CaptHenway

There are many such dies. I once held in my hands a Seated Liberty Dollar reverse die with an S mint mark.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>There are many such dies. I once held in my hands a Seated Liberty Dollar reverse die with an S mint mark. >>

If you paired it with an obverse die of a date from the same series that was never made and struck some, would they be counterfeits or fantasy strikes?

BustHalfBrian

I know someone on this site has a obv/rev pair of CC-marked dies, although the denomination of coin that the die struck has slipped my mind. Maybe he'll come across this thread.

MrEureka

I've seen a fair number of US coin dies, but none is good enough to strike deceptive "restrikes". They're all either substantially rusted, cancelled or defaced in some other way.

Zoins

How often are these dies offered for sale and how much do they go for?

Coinosaurus

Once you have a die in hand, the temptation to use it is great

Zoins

<< <i>Once you have a die in hand, the temptation to use it is great >>



Any plans for the Gobrecht?

mkman123

Doesn't Dan Carr own the actual press they used back then?

Zoins

<< <i>Doesn't Dan Carr own the actual press they used back then? >>



Dan's press is a late 20th century press, not a 19th century press. Dan's press was built in 1986 and used at the Denver Mint from 1986 to 2001. You can read more about Dan's press on the Moonlight Mint website.

DaveWcoins

Not to derail this thread, but there is at least one Chinese coin factory that has purchased surplus coin presses that were once used at US mints. Not sure of the vintage of these presses.

Dentuck

In appendix A of the first Red Book Professional Edition,
titled "Counterfeit Coins in Today's Market---Modern Chinese
Counterfeit Coins: A Classification System," Dr. Gregory V. DuBay
discusses one of the major producers of modern Chinese
counterfeits, the owner and operator of an established
factory in Fujian Province.

"Mr. L---'s coin presses were at one time in operation at a
U.S. mint, and in the early 1900s were sent to the mint in
Shanghai, China. In the mid-1950s the presses and
ancillary equipment, being obsolete for China's modern
coining needs, were sold off as scrap and ended up in
the counterfeiter's shops of Fujian. In short, Mr. L---'s
counterfeit coins are struck on original U.S. Mint coin
presses and at the identical strike and pressures as the
original coins."

BillJones

I once saw the obverse die for an 1807 half dollar. It tought me what a die break looks like. The die was several inches tall, and the break ran from the die face down through the body of the die.

As others have said many dies still exist, but they are not a great shape.

Three dies still exist that were used to strike Civil War tokens. In the late 1930s, the Central States numismatic organization used them to strike a piece that was issued in conjunction with their convention. Here is the piece.



And is an example of the token. This gold filled piece was made for 19th century collectors.

Zoins

Great post Bill. It's nice to see the comparison of the original and newer strikes. The die break is a nice touch.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Lots of US coin dies exist in private hands.

Most are too messed up to produce anything deceptive.

I remember an 1878 Morgan obverse die that Bob Campbell had several years ago that had some modest pitting but still plenty of mint "bloom." That one could have probably made a nice restrike, if you were ballsy enough to try it.