Options
Common Question: Why isn't it already in a holder? Well...
renomedphys
Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a question commonly bandied about by buyers.
Variations abound.
As I find myself trying to decide whether or not to crack out a couple of newps for my 7070, or whether or not to just submit the whole bunch (over 50 coins in all worth holdering), positing the inevitable sale brings this question to mind.
So, pliers in hand one more time, the debate continues. This time over a recently purchased AU graded Barber half, and an EF graded CC 20-center, both perfect coins for my 7070 set.
But but but, isn't the end game to get these things all holdered and sold? Why would I crack them out just to force myself (or my heirs) to get them reholdered one day just to make them salable?
A recent trip down to my local B&M relaxed my fears a little. I was discussing whether or not to get my type set holdered and the dealer asks me what's the point. I tell him that I'm selling a few, and think that they need to be holdered to be salable. While he agrees with me in principle, he asks me what's for sale. I point out a few items, he inspect them, and then proceeds to offer me about what I would expect to make from them after holdering. Eyebrows go up, I weigh the possibilities, and then decide to take him up on his offer.
So I offer a few answers to my initial question, and ask you to do the same:
1. Because raw coins are more fun to own (provided you know what you've got).
2. Not everyone with coins even knows what grading is. Actually, very few of us do.
3. Because I cracked it out (because see #1).
4. Nice coins sell for nice money regardless.
#4 above obviously has a lot of wiggle room. I mean, if you are a dealer and someone brings you a gem proof large cent, your inclination would be to offer fair money, but money that will limit your exposure. So you look it up, figure it's at worst a 64BN, but greysheet doesn't give values for BN above 63, which is around $4k, so you offer $3k. Well then you get it graded, and it comes back a 66+BN. Then you sell it for $50K at auction. Cha-ching! There are lots of cases analogous to this. But for the vast majority of coins out there, coins worth say less than $1000 in the best of circumstances, the range of perceived value is much much smaller. I mean, selling a problem free EF bust half raw to an honest dealer isn't going to leave a lot of money on the table, under most circumstances.
I imagine that lots of us here, especially in the non-kool-aid crowd, wrestle with this issue more than we'd like to. What are your thoughts?
Variations abound.
As I find myself trying to decide whether or not to crack out a couple of newps for my 7070, or whether or not to just submit the whole bunch (over 50 coins in all worth holdering), positing the inevitable sale brings this question to mind.
So, pliers in hand one more time, the debate continues. This time over a recently purchased AU graded Barber half, and an EF graded CC 20-center, both perfect coins for my 7070 set.
But but but, isn't the end game to get these things all holdered and sold? Why would I crack them out just to force myself (or my heirs) to get them reholdered one day just to make them salable?
A recent trip down to my local B&M relaxed my fears a little. I was discussing whether or not to get my type set holdered and the dealer asks me what's the point. I tell him that I'm selling a few, and think that they need to be holdered to be salable. While he agrees with me in principle, he asks me what's for sale. I point out a few items, he inspect them, and then proceeds to offer me about what I would expect to make from them after holdering. Eyebrows go up, I weigh the possibilities, and then decide to take him up on his offer.
So I offer a few answers to my initial question, and ask you to do the same:
1. Because raw coins are more fun to own (provided you know what you've got).
2. Not everyone with coins even knows what grading is. Actually, very few of us do.
3. Because I cracked it out (because see #1).
4. Nice coins sell for nice money regardless.
#4 above obviously has a lot of wiggle room. I mean, if you are a dealer and someone brings you a gem proof large cent, your inclination would be to offer fair money, but money that will limit your exposure. So you look it up, figure it's at worst a 64BN, but greysheet doesn't give values for BN above 63, which is around $4k, so you offer $3k. Well then you get it graded, and it comes back a 66+BN. Then you sell it for $50K at auction. Cha-ching! There are lots of cases analogous to this. But for the vast majority of coins out there, coins worth say less than $1000 in the best of circumstances, the range of perceived value is much much smaller. I mean, selling a problem free EF bust half raw to an honest dealer isn't going to leave a lot of money on the table, under most circumstances.
I imagine that lots of us here, especially in the non-kool-aid crowd, wrestle with this issue more than we'd like to. What are your thoughts?
0
Comments
<< <i>What are your thoughts? >>
Selling to dealers while simple usually leaves a lot of money in the dealers pocket.
<< <i>
<< <i>What are your thoughts? >>
Selling to dealers while simple usually leaves a lot of money in the dealers pocket.
Maybe, maybe not. As a dealer you have to leave some wiggle room with the grade if you are buying a raw coin that needs to stabbed because no one can predict the grade the graders will give a coin exactly. If you the a coin might grade MS-65, you can not pay MS-65 money because the grade is not sure thing. You also have to deduct for postage and grading fees. That is why a collector is best off getting the coin graded before he goes to sell it.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Where do they think the nice coins in slabs come from?
They didn't just spontaneously birth protective plastic shells and appear on the market.
Just a ruse by some dealers to try to buy stuff on the cheap. Perhaps they don't trust their own opinions enough to pay good money for a good coin. Maybe they doubt their own grading and authentification skills.
90% of my coins are not in holders because I bought them before holders became popular and I prefer them that way.
Bob
<< <i>Renomedphy, what happens if you pass? Your family could take it to a coin dealer and get cheated. Your cracked out cc 20 center lets say was a PCGS AU50, the dealer could tell your spouse, that its low grade, possible vf and then lowball her and basically steal your entire collection. >>
If I pass, my wife has instructions to get any raw coin pre-1940 in a holder, then to sell them on Heritage as she needs money.
And for what it's worth, the core of my collection remains in holders, as IMHO they are just too delicate to own raw.
<< <i>Where do they think the nice coins in slabs come from?
They didn't just spontaneously birth protective plastic shells and appear on the market. >>
Amen!
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>I buy coins. I do not by plastic. I have bought coins that came in plastic. I do not send in coins for plastification as I only buy coins. >>
As an error collector you have more leeway when it comes to avoiding certified coins than the rest of us. Many times the item speaks for itself and hairsplitting grades are not as important.
I will warn you of this however. An unnamed collector / numismatic author brought a "rare" error item to the most recent Early American Coppers convention. It was a 1796 half cent that he was sure had been struck on a cut down 1796 large cent with the undertype showing. Such items are not unheard of in the world of early copper. The first U.S. mint did take large cents that were too poor to be issued as cents, cut them down and over struck the remaining planchet as a half cent.
This piece was not one of those. It was in fact a Chinese counterfeit. The owner thought he had something that was worth several hundred thousand dollars was prepared to sell it as such. We noted very quickly that the half cent details did not match up with the 1796 With Pole variety, and that the coin was bogus. But if you are one of those people with more money than knowledge with some larceny in your heart, you could have been scammed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The EAC guys do it all the time I'm told, bust 'em out of the sarcophagus
I wouldn't worry about cracking the coins out. Think of how many regrades get sent in raw every day.
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>The EAC guys do it all the time I'm told, bust 'em out of the sarcophagus
The grading services love those guys. Virtually every crack out will eventually be sent back in to be regraded.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The EAC guys do it all the time I'm told, bust 'em out of the sarcophagus
The grading services love those guys. Virtually every crack out will eventually be sent back in to be regraded. >>
But they'll be resubmitted a lot less frequently then the slab-happy folks. Not sure how that would make the slabbers happy.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Yes, it's important to have a nice coin in the holder, but having the holder is equally as important in the coin market these days.
(Of course, if the coin is cheap (under $25), then it doesn't matter that much, but almost all coins over this amount should be graded if they are rare coins).
Time and time again, I see big coins being sold raw and in *most* cases, it never ends well for the buyer.
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
<< <i>In a nutshell: it ain't the 70's anymore -- hasn't been since '86/'87. >>
Actually, not since 1980.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The EAC guys do it all the time I'm told, bust 'em out of the sarcophagus
The grading services love those guys. Virtually every crack out will eventually be sent back in to be regraded. >>
But they'll be resubmitted a lot less frequently then the slab-happy folks. Not sure how that would make the slabbers happy. >>
The people who like slabs tend to keep them in slabs while people who don't like slabs crack them out. The grading services like them because when people crack out coins, the grading companies can eventually collect multiple slabbing fees for most of these same coins which puts more money in the grading company's pocket which makes them happy. I thought it was rather obvious.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They base their pitch on THEIR descriptions.
Which they convince people is unassailable.
Unless it gets sent in again.
<< <i>The EAC guys spend their energy convincing everyone that they know lots more about copper than any goldurn grading company.
They base their pitch on THEIR descriptions.
Which they convince people is unassailable.
Unless it gets sent in again.
Actually, the EAC guys do know more.
Your problem with this is?
BTW, not an EAC member or early copper specialist. But members have borrrowed my "Jaws of Life" so their coins can breathe again.
<< <i>But members have borrrowed my "Jaws of Life" so their coins can breathe again. >>
Don't you mean "so they can touch their coins and brush them with their camel hair brushes"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Your problem with this is?"
So there.
CJ, I'll nominate you for the 'official EAC spokesperson' (or at least mascot)!
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>IMO, downright foolish not to have a coin of importance in a respected TPG holder. To do otherwise invites damage to the piece (slidemarks), possible larceny when looking to sell, innocent mistakes (I'd rather fumble a slab onto a hard floor than a raw coin), etc. In a nutshell: it ain't the 70's anymore -- hasn't been since '86/'87. >>
Should note, I did say "coins of importance" and that threshold will vary of course depending on the person. :-) I don't really care for the thought of any coin in my collection, worth $500 or over, to not be in a slab. Anything under that, I guess I don't mind in a slab or raw, just depends on how I want to house it. And though the idea of accidentally dropping a coin and causing damage is mighty annoying, I suppose if it were to happen, I'd be glad it was a $25 piece vs $250.
CJ, I'll nominate you for the 'official EAC spokesperson' (or at least mascot)!
You have clearly not seen a recent picture
<< <i>The EAC guys spend their energy convincing everyone that they know lots more about copper than any goldurn grading company.
They base their pitch on THEIR descriptions.
Which they convince people is unassailable.
Unless it gets sent in again.
This is pretty funny.
EAC 6024
<< <i>So there.
CJ, I'll nominate you for the 'official EAC spokesperson' (or at least mascot)!
You have clearly not seen a recent picture
I have.
That's why I added 'mascot'.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]