So, what drives these poor national decisions?
tneig
Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
We have many good threads on QE, debt, national spending, Ben, the Fed, and on so many policy decisions.
What drives these finance and policy decisions? Is there no one making correct decisions?
Are they taking their best shot, driven by many factors, on something not easily managed?
Do they have adjendas that are not in the nations best interest?
Are they factors driving the finance decisions always influenced by the biggest stakeholders in every nation?
Is hindsight evalution biased?
What were some correct policy decisions?
Did not our debt grow the last decades via a mix of both parties in office?
Basically has any nation overcome its grow cycle and monetary or fiat system issues? I can't think
of any nation that is not influnced by big players that affect national decisions, as this is not new.
What about a comparison to older nations and how they have lasted, say Great Britain?
What drives these finance and policy decisions? Is there no one making correct decisions?
Are they taking their best shot, driven by many factors, on something not easily managed?
Do they have adjendas that are not in the nations best interest?
Are they factors driving the finance decisions always influenced by the biggest stakeholders in every nation?
Is hindsight evalution biased?
What were some correct policy decisions?
Did not our debt grow the last decades via a mix of both parties in office?
Basically has any nation overcome its grow cycle and monetary or fiat system issues? I can't think
of any nation that is not influnced by big players that affect national decisions, as this is not new.
What about a comparison to older nations and how they have lasted, say Great Britain?
COA
0
Comments
<< <i>What drives these finance and policy decisions? >>
greed and corruption. Each bad move requires a follow-up bad move to keep the game going.
"The primary purpose of QE3 is actually to do nothing more than to help mega-banks climb our ot a hole. Buying mortgage bonds gives a new gift of cash to banks, helps bank balance sheets directly and indirectly, and is done at the expense of the rest of us. It also helps fund continued deficit spending by government."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Do they have adjendas that are not in the nations best interest? >>
Yes, wherever there is power and money, humans will opt for their own interests first.
Cheers, RickO
Current actions probably won't be unraveled for decades ,however there is a lot out there about the early days .
If you search for information about the time around the first world war things like this pop up.
the more things change......
He might have been appointed by Bush originally, but bush gave us Roberts of supreme court infamy also. Bush was clearly no conservative.
As a former speaker of the house once said" you need to see what's in it (him) before you know.
Oh, thats not quite what she was talking about.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The media plays a large role. Most of the talking heads and their writers likely couldn't pass a high school math test. Same for half the Congress people and Senators, half would likely flunk a high school math test. The current chief wants to eliminate teaching to the test, in part, so that another generation will believe any BS the media droids spin out for them. Then you have 90% of the working media (newspapers and TV) that actively supports one party. This moves the national zeitgeist to be more about their chosen narrative than anything else. If there were a Bush in the Whitehouse there would be non-stop stories about failed policies in Afghanistan, Egypt, $4 gasoline, starving seniors forced by a mean President to try to live on 0.5% interest rates from their CDs, while food and fuel prices have doubled due to incredibly bad financial policies. Instead, we get legions of reporters looking for the smallest flaws in the other candidate and half the country is still willing to listen the BS shoveled out by the media. The current President has yet to propose any realistic budget in this three years. His last budget was voted down 98-0 in the Senate, a Senate where his own party still holds a solid majority. Does that bother the lefties or the press? No, they choose to look for flaws in a realistic Ryan budget, when their own guy might as well have drawn cartoons and handed them in as a budget.
Meanwhile a tiny group with advanced math degrees and computer algorithms have taken over much of Wall Street, making products so complicated than only other PhD level people that specialize in their exotics able to fully understand them. Regulators are so far behind the curve it isn't funny, and that is if the regulators were honest instead of bought and paid for lobbyists. As regulators try to regulate, the financial wizards continue to move towards more exotic, more difficult to understand financial products. Corruption is a problem. The current President had and still has huge campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs executives and paid them back 10000x over with the bailout packages and the appointment of a Goldman alum to Secretary of Treasury (Geithner). Despite over $100 billion for the AIG bailout, other huge chunks for Fannie and Freddie, and sweetheart loans to hundreds of high level politicians by Countrywide, no one has gone to jail. That is strong evidence to me that the presidency was in large part bought and paid for by corrupt Wall Street money. The worst part are all the rubes, that think the President is for the little guy, when he is more a 1-percenter than just about any President ever. He vacations at billionaire resorts, traveling with a entourage that would put any royalty to shame. He plays golf with celebrities and bigshots, spends time fundraising with the Hollywood private jet crowd, and has policies that help the Wall Street crooks and punishes the savers. Poverty is up, food stamps are up, gas prices are up, food prices are up. Debts and deficits are up to the point where the event horizon may be approaching, meaning a point where the debt is so large that interest payments will threaten to consume the rest of the economy. Real employment is down, incomes are down, net worth is down. People suffer, but the media ignores all that, because they have to get their guy back in.
I've argue these same points at other venues and all I get is "crickets."
The leader of the senate is even worse than he is.
Wake up America before you lose all your freedoms!
<< <i>Wake up America before you lose all your freedoms! >>
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Rearden heard Bertram Scudder, outside the group, say to a girl who made some sound of indignation,
"Don't let him disturb you. You know, money is the root of all evil – and he's the typical product of money."
Rearden did not think that Francisco could have heard it, but he saw Francisco turning to them with a gravely courteous smile.
"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?
"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor – your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?
"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions – and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.
"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made – before it can be looted or mooched – made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.
"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except by the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders.
Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss – the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery – that you must offer them values, not wounds – that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. And when men live by trade – with reason, not force, as their final arbiter – it is the best product that wins, the best performance, then man of best judgment and highest ability – and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality – the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.
"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants; money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth – the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve that mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Money is your means of survival. The verdict which you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is the loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money – and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.
"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another – their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.
"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride, or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich – will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt – and of his life, as he deserves.
"Then you will see the rise of the double standard – the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money – the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law – men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims – then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.
"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world?' You are.
"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood – money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves – slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer. Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers – as industrialists.
"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money – and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being – the self-made man – the American industrialist.
"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose – because it contains all the others – the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money'. No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity – to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted, or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.
"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide – as, I think, he will.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns – or dollars. Take your choice – there is no other – and your time is running out."
I knew it would happen.
"We the people" allow our politicians to be bought and sold by those with money, you can't blame anyone else when we continue to elect crooks. The far right has no workable answers either so lets not just try to blame the dem's. Basically they say trillions for defense, and not one nickel for people in need, that just won't fly over the short or long term.
So to protect yourself all you can do is try to figure out what the Benanke is going to do next. And it will be whatever is best for the JP Morgue and the Goldman Sack, then invest accordingly.
And most importantly - DON'T FIGHT THE FED!
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<< <i>Do they have adjendas that are not in the nations best interest? >>
I think their agendas start out with that they must get elected to do anything.
It's tough to get elected if they make the right decisions because most of the right decisions are painful for some group.
<< <i>The current President has yet to propose any realistic budget in this three years. >>
Hell, Obama can't even recite the amount of the Federal Deficit (from Sept 2012):
http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/09/obama-doesnt-remember-the-national-debt-figure/
Everyone in this country needs to know the debt figure, period. The fact that our head cheese does not, implies some serious issues. We need to plant a gigantic debt clock in the Oval Office. I mean a big one, with 6 foot tall LED numbers flashing like crazy. And with every new $500,000,000 of debt, a very loud alarm should go off across the White House premises. That way none of them would get any sleep as the alarm would go off every 4hrs. Wake up!!!!!!
We could also probably afford to install a duplicate debt clock in the Senate (half of them are asleep there anyways if you ever watch CSPAN).
BTW, your response was spot on and if I could grade it, an A+. -AuAgPt
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<< <i>The current President has yet to propose any realistic budget in this three years. >>
Hell, Obama can't even recite the amount of the Federal Deficit (from Sept 2012):
http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/09/obama-doesnt-remember-the-national-debt-figure/
Everyone in this country needs to know the debt figure, period. The fact that our head cheese does not, implies some serious issues. We need to plant a gigantic debt clock in the Oval Office. I mean a big one, with 6 foot tall LED numbers flashing like crazy. And with every new $500,000,000 of debt, a very loud alarm should go off across the White House premises. That way none of them would get any sleep as the alarm would go off every 4hrs. Wake up!!!!!!
We could also probably afford to install a duplicate debt clock in the Senate (half of them are asleep there anyways if you ever watch CSPAN).
BTW, your response was spot on and if I could grade it, an A+. -AuAgPt >>
Right on, comrade. Ask yourself, would you let Dear Leader manage your 401K? Would you let him manage your home security? Would you let him manage your utility company? Would you let him manage your auto? Would you let him manage your insurance? Finally, would you let him manage your home budget?
He also believes a Man should Marry a Woman, wow imagine that. Talk about something that would kill your economy within 20 years. He also believes in a Strong America not a weak kneed apologist that bows to every Islam sheik he meets. One who will stand with our ally Israel and doesn't believe in inviting known terrorist antagonizers into the WhiteHouse.
Romney also believes in appointing conservative supreme court judges, not confirmed anti constitutionalists like hussein did. He is also a Christian, not a Christian that will after shortly being elected demand that Nasa start a huge outreach program to the Islam/Muslim world and share our space technology with.
I really enjoyed hearing Romney come out right after the attacks on our ambassador and speak resolutely with American conviction and resolve. It was a sure change from the slobbering idiots we have currently in charge who immeadiately ensured the film producer was scooped up, and then create their own advertising saying obama didn't have a thing to do with it. Sheesh he is responsible, him and h. clinton for everthing that has gone wrong over there due to their appeasement policy and their aggression towards Israel.
I'm not a Christian, and I don't give a minutes thought about what gay people do, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or the economic health of the country. What a women decides to do about an unwanted pregancy is none of my business, and I don't think my personal beliefs should be forced on others. But according to the new republican party that makes me as evil as Saddam Hussien, maybe I'm even the devil hiding in a middle aged, balding, slightly overweight, suburban caucasian costume.
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we are all in big trouble with the way Roberts is now voting. It will completely do away with the constitution in my lifetime and I am 73 now.
The biggest problem today is with the young adults having kids and not teaching them the correct way to do things and then they get into
school and have teachers that don't know how to teach thanks to the unions that will give them all they want without holding them
accountable for what they teach. Unions were good in their time but their time has now passed, now all they do is corrupt our
society.
<< <i>So you can see a lot of the problems in the posts here. It's supposed to be about economics but doesn't turn out to be.
I'm not a Christian, and I don't give a minutes thought about what gay people do, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or the economic health of the country. What a women decides to do about an unwanted pregancy is none of my business, and I don't think my personal beliefs should be forced on others. But according to the new republican party that makes me as evil as Saddam Hussien, maybe I'm even the devil hiding in a middle aged, balding, slightly overweight, suburban caucasian costume. >>
In the 1930's, many Germans felt the same way---"I'm not Jewish and what the government does to the Jews is none of my business."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>So you can see a lot of the problems in the posts here. It's supposed to be about economics but doesn't turn out to be.
I'm not a Christian, and I don't give a minutes thought about what gay people do, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or the economic health of the country. What a women decides to do about an unwanted pregancy is none of my business, and I don't think my personal beliefs should be forced on others. But according to the new republican party that makes me as evil as Saddam Hussien, maybe I'm even the devil hiding in a middle aged, balding, slightly overweight, suburban caucasian costume. >>
In the 1930's, many Germans felt the same way---"I'm not Jewish and what the government does to the Jews is none of my business." >>
Sounded like he was saying "live and let live."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Probably the reason why mastercard is trading at $450 a share. Truely their name says it all. Master.
You are right on with your assessment of the current joke we have for a foreign policy. If we get another left winger on the supreme court
we are all in big trouble with the way Roberts is now voting. It will completely do away with the constitution in my lifetime and I am 73 now.
The biggest problem today is with the young adults having kids and not teaching them the correct way to do things and then they get into
school and have teachers that don't know how to teach thanks to the unions that will give them all they want without holding them
accountable for what they teach. Unions were good in their time but their time has now passed, now all they do is corrupt our
society.
Roberts voted in favor of the the healthcare law only to save the integrity of the Supreme Court. If he voted against it, he knew the Supreme court would be voting along party lines only. He knew politics needs to stay out of the Supreme Court, though he did blunder on the Citizens United Decision.
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<< <i>So you can see a lot of the problems in the posts here. It's supposed to be about economics but doesn't turn out to be.
I'm not a Christian, and I don't give a minutes thought about what gay people do, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or the economic health of the country. What a women decides to do about an unwanted pregancy is none of my business, and I don't think my personal beliefs should be forced on others. But according to the new republican party that makes me as evil as Saddam Hussien, maybe I'm even the devil hiding in a middle aged, balding, slightly overweight, suburban caucasian costume. >>
A country's disentigrating Economy, and a county's decent into Moral decay is connected at the hip. If you bury your head in the sand regarding the one you will surely get the other.
History is our teacher and it is extremely clear.
<< <i>Roberts voted in favor of the the healthcare law only to save the integrity of the Supreme Court. If he voted against it, he knew the Supreme court would be voting along party lines only. He knew politics needs to stay out of the Supreme Court, though he did blunder on the Citizens United Decision. >>
Are you serious, do you really believe that? This man had to do a special end run on behalf of Obama to accept the "Tax" question which the administration argued it was not.
This man Roberts is a complete sell out to his Country, the Constitution and to the idea of maintaining the integrity of the Supreme Court. With him as Chief justice this Court is nearing the likeness of the infamous California's 9th. Crediblity was completely lost with Hussein's last two appointments and Bush's appointment of waffleman no backbone Roberts was the pre-emptive strike to help aid and to appease the progessives.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So you can see a lot of the problems in the posts here. It's supposed to be about economics but doesn't turn out to be.
I'm not a Christian, and I don't give a minutes thought about what gay people do, it has absolutely no bearing on my life or the economic health of the country. What a women decides to do about an unwanted pregancy is none of my business, and I don't think my personal beliefs should be forced on others. But according to the new republican party that makes me as evil as Saddam Hussien, maybe I'm even the devil hiding in a middle aged, balding, slightly overweight, suburban caucasian costume. >>
In the 1930's, many Germans felt the same way---"I'm not Jewish and what the government does to the Jews is none of my business." >>
Sounded like he was saying "live and let live." If so, I agree with him. Political parties should concern themselves with providing the best services at the best price, not telling people how they should live. Unfortunately, the dominate religion here and its beliefs are force fed to the population just like it is done in other parts of the world by zealots with different beliefs. >>
And the left don't have thier religion? they try to force feed us filth daily? its called the religion of SELF. Worshiping the Creature more than the Creator. The self destructive nature thatl the left stands for will eventually tear this country apart just like it has done through out all of history.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
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<< <i>PMs are about economics. Once should not mix ones metals with one's religion or one's politics, at least not here. >>
PMs=religion=politics. Neither can exist without the other. History has proven so.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>PMs are about economics. Once should not mix ones metals with one's religion or one's politics, at least not here. >>
PMs=religion=politics. Neither can exist without the other. History has proven so. >>
co-existence does not equal co-dependency.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>You need to remeber that the Bernanke is just an academic and a government employee, he's never held a real job with actual economic output so his decisions are colored by his lack of real world experience. >>
Dr Ray Stantz: Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've *worked* in the private sector. They expect *results*.
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And how many millions of Americans could tell you the names of every member of the Kardashian family but wouldn't have a clue about the amount of the national debt?
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
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<< <i>PMs are about economics. Once should not mix ones metals with one's religion or one's politics, at least not here. >>
PMs=religion=politics. Neither can exist without the other. History has proven so. >>
co-existence does not equal co-dependency. >>
Thats the equivalent of saying that I can still breathe with no oxygen. It exists but I don't depend on it.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PMs are about economics. Once should not mix ones metals with one's religion or one's politics, at least not here. >>
PMs=religion=politics. Neither can exist without the other. History has proven so. >>
co-existence does not equal co-dependency. >>
Thats the equivalent of saying that I can still breathe with no oxygen. It exists but I don't depend on it. >>
No, that's the equivalent of saying just because two things co-exist does not automatically mean they are dependent on one another. Note how you can breathe without maple syrup.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Progress depends upon the actions of skeptical men
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>It's very difficult to use logical arguments with the faithful, because faith by definition involves believing in the absence or in spite of logic, and requires accepting unknowable and unprovable "facts" about the past and/or future.
Progress depends upon the actions of skeptical men >>
that's YOUR definition of 'faith' (pitting 'faith vs. reason/logic' fallacy), and yet, you didn't arrive at that definition by empiric, scientific, material experimentation did you?--and just like the 'aerobics denying oxygen while breathing oxygen' example above, you presupposed a world of abstract, immaterial laws of logic to communicate your own 'faith' that your own worldview cannot even begin to account for. Now, I 'm not saying you can't count; I'm saying you can't account for 'counting' by the worldview you typed out above, and you presupposed the very thing you deny in order to do so. The moment you begin to use 'logic', you invoke the inductive principle, which makes materialistic worldviews immeidately parasitic and hypocritical. I feel like a pure rationalist! compared to the true 'blind faith x 10' it takes to make a statement like you do above.
Bahnsen and Tabash debate the principle of induction
forgive my pitiable apologetic skills in condensing such important principles, but if you the read the above all the way through, i hope you will see more clearly the 'faith vs. reason' fallacy-- in fact , the guns get turned right around you, my friend.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I agree with Baley. >>
I agree with you
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Pride
Greed
Lack of research, or knowledge of history
Countries that are not one nation under God
"dependency = greed"
I knew it would happen.
da Emperor, he got no clothes.
hypocrites.
and Derry nailed it too. injecting faith into investments is just about the surest way to become penniless as quickly as possible.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Since the logical thing to do during 1775-1789 was to create a republic that was different from all others to date, and that republic was salvaged (logical thing to do) from the ashes of the civil war with the help of an detrmined president (which cleansed us from another evil), it is apparent that the current man is not of the same republic preserving nature, therefore the most logical thing that must be done for the sake of logic alone is to dump him. Just as logic overwhelmingly prescribed the dumping of King George and Slavery, logic now demands the dumping of Hussein.
If there are some that want to beleive their Great great great......... grandfather was a monkey or a tad pole then thats their right under our republic, But let us all logically agree that the republic must be preserved and must choose one that will most likely move to strengthen and preserve that republic. If we don't, God Please Help Us.
P.S. Spock would most logically Vote the Romney ticket
I'd have to say that past economic performance in the US has been largely due to individual initiative and incentives provided within the republic framework provided by the Constitution, (which in fact was created by God-fearing Christians who lived in a time that had a completely different ethos than what we now have). I do believe that there is such a link.
Further, I'd posit that our current government has very little respect and/or understanding of those benefits or how they came about. At this time, it seems to be all about gaming the system. That being the case, my solution would be to revert, as much as possible - back to those original ideas and that founding ethos. Whether you think that religion played a part or not, the facts are clear that the original intent was not to provide a free ride, and certainly not to make people or businesses beholden to the government.
In the wealthiest country ever to exist on Earth, there's simply no excuse for not being able to make it, if you aren't congenitally screwed up - and if you simply "work". I don't subscribe to the list of politically-correct excuses being forced down our throats for the past 50 years.
"Don't it always seem to go...
that you don't know what you've got t'ill it's gone" Joni Mitchell
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>my solution would be to revert, as much as possible - back to those original ideas and that founding ethos. Whether you think that religion played a part or not, the facts are clear that the original intent was not to provide a free ride, and certainly not to make people or businesses beholden to the government.
In the wealthiest country ever to exist on Earth, there's simply no excuse for not being able to make it, if you aren't congenitally screwed up - and if you simply "work". I don't subscribe to the list of politically-correct excuses being forced down our throats for the past 50 years. >>
+1
<< <i>So, what drives these poor national decisions?
I'd have to say that past economic performance in the US has been largely due to individual initiative and incentives provided within the republic framework provided by the Constitution, (which in fact was created by God-fearing Christians who lived in a time that had a completely different ethos than what we now have). I do believe that there is such a link.
Further, I'd posit that our current government has very little respect and/or understanding of those benefits or how they came about. At this time, it seems to be all about gaming the system. That being the case, my solution would be to revert, as much as possible - back to those original ideas and that founding ethos. Whether you think that religion played a part or not, the facts are clear that the original intent was not to provide a free ride, and certainly not to make people or businesses beholden to the government.
In the wealthiest country ever to exist on Earth, there's simply no excuse for not being able to make it, if you aren't congenitally screwed up - and if you simply "work". I don't subscribe to the list of politically-correct excuses being forced down our throats for the past 50 years. >>
Amen !
<< <i>The logical thing to do is Vote for Romney thus dumping Obama.
Since the logical thing to do during 1775-1789 was to create a republic that was different from all others to date, and that republic was salvaged (logical thing to do) from the ashes of the civil war with the help of an detrmined president (which cleansed us from another evil), it is apparent that the current man is not of the same republic preserving nature, therefore the most logical thing that must be done for the sake of logic alone is to dump him. Just as logic overwhelmingly prescribed the dumping of King George and Slavery, logic now demands the dumping of Hussein.
If there are some that want to beleive their Great great great......... grandfather was a monkey or a tad pole then thats their right under our republic, But let us all logically agree that the republic must be preserved and must choose one that will most likely move to strengthen and preserve that republic. If we don't, God Please Help Us.
P.S. Spock would most logically Vote the Romney ticket
Demographics most likely will prove that whomever is President next will be a failure.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear