Why is it that we use words like scam, manipulation or conspiracy to describe things we dont underst
cohodk
Posts: 19,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is it emotionally driven? Is it a product of our egos?
Excuses are tools of the ignorant
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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May be that folks are being fed a pc/sunlight diet that doesn't jive with the known information makes them become suspicious and voice these suspicions and it just builds from there.
May be that in this age of misinformation and "for public consumption" type of media we are presented with makes people question the message a little more than in a previous age of more honest communications.
May be that the folks making money from advertising on sites that create conspiracy and generate traffic need to get hits so it stands to reason that the conspiracy theorists and debunkers "fact checkers for the fact checkers" are just trying to make a living.
May be that most of the folks that push the conspiracy or scam or manipulation rants really aren't the brighter bulbs and need attention hence emotionally driven or may be that the conspiracists need digital love too hence ego driven.
May be there really are conspiracies, scams, and manipulations and folks are just offering them for consideration.
Could be a lot of things but they aren't going to go away.
manipulation doesn't have to be a bad thing as long as you understand it and trade accordingly. if you look at the definition of conspiracy you will find that it is very much in the realm of possibility, especially from financial leaders and power brokers. as for scam - that's an ebay seller adjective, and yes they do exist.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I knew it would happen.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I find reading charts to be very enlightening. Look at 100 random charts. On many you will see pointy tops and bottoms. These represent 180 degree turns in sentiment. What causes this? How can something look so good one day and so terrible the next. Oftentimes trend changes occur in a matter of hours. An idea can take years to come to fruition, yet just hours to change course.
mhammerman, there is no "mis"information. It is just information. It is up to the individual to determine whether the info is accurate.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Look at 100 random charts. On many you will see pointy tops and bottoms. These represent 180 degree turns in sentiment. What causes this? >>
anticipation, in many cases, of good news or bad news. Many traders try to be the first out of the gate. at the risk of being wrong, they enjoy greater rewards if they are right.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Agree 100%, it is up to the user to determine the value of that information.
mis-information occurs all the time. And yes, the user of any information should make best effort to determine its validity before making any (especially financial) decisions based on that information.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I don't necessarily think that the use of those words indicates a lack of understanding.
Is it emotionally driven? Is it a product of our egos?
I don't necessarily think that the use of those words indicates an emotionally driven or ego-driven response.
Look at 100 random charts. On many you will see pointy tops and bottoms. These represent 180 degree turns in sentiment. What causes this?
Sinclair is pretty good at explaining this type of thing. He calls it "management of perception economics". The Fed & CNBC do this all the time. Their statements are geared towards managing perceptions as much as actually managing macroeconomic policy. Having grown up in the TV Generation, I am familiar with the fact that not everything you see on TV is true, or real - that much has been obvious to me for at least 50 years.
So, what does cause the changes in sentiment, when the fundamentals haven't really changed? I just explained it. Each time the sentiment changes, one might say that the bubble of "willingness to suspend disbelief" has popped in response to a new dosage of MOPE. Just remember, most of the time it isn't even real.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>If information is false then it is mis-information. There are concentrated efforts to issue mis-information in order to steer public sentiment. Take a look at the attacks by both political parties, press releases by the Japanese nuclear plant operator, statements by BP Gulf Oil spill representatives, etc. One strategy of mis-information is to cloud and confuse a particular issue.
mis-information occurs all the time. And yes, the user of any information should make best effort to determine its validity before making any (especially financial) decisions based on that information. >>
absolutes DO exist, truth:lies. True conspiracy (otherwise there would not be the concept, eh?) vs. Paranoia.
And they play a very important role in PM and all markets to answer the OP. It's as much logical as it is psycho-logical-- the way the 'market' functions; trying to be the one ahead of the market's logical and psychological reactions.... ah, there's the rub.
So prices are determined by sentiment or fundamentals?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
value is determined by fundamentals
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Surely you know the answer to that question!
I knew it would happen.
I'm probably as guilty as anyone when it comes to using the words scam, manipulation or conspiracy when refering to PMs trading, the financial system, etc.
Tend to use them for actions that are factual and obvious. It's the product of seeing the same old thing for the past 10 yrs. I guess I use those words because:
1. $1.1 QUAD in otc derivatives is clearly a scam (and manipulation) of the largest order ever known to mankind. But...it's not the only scam. Just the most obvious.
2. The gold market has been clearly manipulated since the London Gold Pool started in 1962. There's no shortage of documents running around that references
managing gold prices to further national policies. It's easy to call a duck a duck. Who doesn't think one bank being short 19 yrs of world silver production via otc silver derivatives
is not manipulation of the highest order bordering on fraud and illegality? Quack...quack.
I try to use the word "conspiracy" quite sparingly. In any case scam or manipulation gets the point across without crossing over into the "c" word that can invoke lawsuits
and get you on the public enemy list.
I would agree one can trade successfully knowing that these scams and manipulations are in progress. Knowing when manipulations are likely is usually a help. The next "manipulation" downward in gold and silver prices will start around the 18th to 19th as we get the usual back to back OE weeks/TNote auction week/end of month beatdown. Count on it. Or should I say count on the manipulation.
<< <i>prices are determined by fear and greed
value is determined by fundamentals >>
Great quote!
<< <i>Look at 100 random charts. On many you will see pointy tops and bottoms. These represent 180 degree turns in sentiment. >>
I think it's because humans can react like other creatures.
Look at how a school of fish or a flock of birds or herd all react together.
As modern humans we take our turn based on something, maybe what we hear on tv or see on a chart and the result is 180 turn in sentiment. The manipulation can be the way and timing of how that info is presented.
<< <i>Is it emotionally driven? Is it a product of our egos? >>
Generally, yes. Folks harboring conspiracy fantasies often have delusions of grandeur based upon their belief that they know some "secret" specifically that everyone else "doesn't see", and sometimes also claim to be able to know the future in a way that ordinary humans do not.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it emotionally driven? Is it a product of our egos? >>
Generally, yes. Folks harboring conspiracy fantasies often have delusions of grandeur based upon their belief that they know some "secret" specifically that everyone else "doesn't see", and sometimes also claim to be able to know the future in a way that ordinary humans do not. >>
Or one can stop being willfully ignorant to reality, and just study the globalists' own words in books, white papers, and on video, where they fully explain most of what they intend to do to this world we live in.
<< <i>Why is it that we use words like scam, manipulation or conspiracy to describe things we dont understand? >>
Whenever I use these words I tend to be describing something that I perfectly understand.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Others will emulate someone more obscure, third-rate sports figures for example.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>The only word I have to describe what I could never understand is "woman". >>
Paraprosdokian: "Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy."
<< <i>Sometimes the victim of paranoid delusions and persecution complexes claims to be like, or adopts the visage of, Socrates, Galileo, or Newton, for example.
Others will emulate someone more obscure, third-rate sports figures for example. >>
And others will be boot licking, white shoe boy types, who falsely think "it can't happen here, this is America".
<< <i>
And others will be boot licking, white shoe boy types, who falsely think "it can't happen here, this is America". >>
Witness the subject's fixation, apropos of nothing, on footwear; This type of non-sequitur is sometimes paired with a statement alluding the the subject's omniscience, as here.
edit: fascinating
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>
And others will be boot licking, white shoe boy types, who falsely think "it can't happen here, this is America". >>
Witness the subject's fixation, apropos of nothing, on footwear; This type of non-sequitur is sometimes paired with a statement alluding the the subject's omniscience, as here.
edit: fascinating
Actually white shoes are the latest rage. Stan is the Man
Mark.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
And others will be boot licking, white shoe boy types, who falsely think "it can't happen here, this is America". >>
Look whos wearing the boots!!! LMAO!!
BTW---Mark, you missed a few weeks ago we already planned to crash Stans paranoia party when "it" happens. We saved you a pitchfork.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
And others will be boot licking, white shoe boy types, who falsely think "it can't happen here, this is America". >>
Look whos wearing the boots!!! LMAO!!
BTW---Mark, you missed a few weeks ago we already planned to crash Stans paranoia party when "it" happens. We saved you a pitchfork. >>
Does jmski52, derryb, roadrunner, and the rest of the fellas who fail to be blind to reality get pitchforked too?
P.S. Yeah, the boots are great. It's the skirt you are wearing with them that doesn't go so well.
And dont ever insult jmski, roadrunner, derryb, et al, like that again. You are far, far, far away from their company.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
And dont ever insult jmski, roadrunner, derryb, et al, like that again. You are far, far, far away from their company. >>
Oh, of course. Yeah, they never discuss some of the same issues. You, sir, IMO, are trying to kiss up to those guys, while continuing to grind the axe with me. That's ok. I'm not worried about it.
You're the same guy who scours over the Plenty Of Fish dating website, and finds a male on there using the same STM user name as I use on here, and sends me PMs asking if it's me. Really, who does that type of bizarre stalker like stuff? Why were you even on that site to begin with?
If you have a message, then perhaps present it without all the aforementioned terms and you may actually be perceived as having conscious thought.
I was looking for you on that website Stan. I knew you would be there. You see, im one of them. And reluctantly Ive taken on their assignment of monitoring your activities. Now dont worry, I wont leak out the other websites you visit and belong to. I know you will eventually out yourself, like you did on POF. They are watching you Stan.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Stan, they never mention anything about new world order, social conditioning, bought and paid for media, boot licking, white shoes wearing boys, God, Jesus, the 10 commandments, or any other jibberish.
If you have a message, then perhaps present it without all the aforementioned terms and you may actually be perceived as having conscious thought.
I was looking for you on that website Stan. I knew you would be there. You see, im one of them. And reluctantly Ive taken on their assignment of monitoring your activities. Now dont worry, I wont leak out the other websites you visit and belong to. I know you will eventually out yourself, like you did on POF. They are watching you Stan. >>
There's just one problem with your accusations, and that problem is you are lying and making up ignorance while using distractions as all good straw men do to avoid debating the facts.
A manipulation is when it's shaped into something different than it is. Structured to look like a dollar, but it's just a dime.
Conspiracy is what precedes the scam or manipulation.
That's easy enough to understand.
Beyond that , this thread is a conspiracy to manipulate my mind into thinking too deep. You scammers
How unfair.
<< <i>
BTW---Mark, you missed a few weeks ago we already planned to crash Stans paranoia party when "it" happens. We saved you a pitchfork. >>
Does jmski52, derryb, roadrunner, and the rest of the fellas who fail to be blind to reality get pitchforked too? >>
I call jmski52, derryb and roadrunner friends and we have had many off campus discussions that I've enjoyed. While we don't see eye to eye on everything we do have a lot of common ground. Heck, I disagree with cohodk more then I do these fellas. Stan, you strike me insane or someone who is on the there way there. It's not your out of the box thinking that worries me, its your out of your mind thinking that makes
me feel you have serious issues. I hope you get some help. I really do
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
BTW---Mark, you missed a few weeks ago we already planned to crash Stans paranoia party when "it" happens. We saved you a pitchfork. >>
Does jmski52, derryb, roadrunner, and the rest of the fellas who fail to be blind to reality get pitchforked too? >>
I call jmski52, derryb and roadrunner friends and we have had many off campus discussions that I've enjoyed. While we don't see eye to eye on everything we do have a lot of common ground. Heck, I disagree with cohodk more then I do these fellas. Stan, you strike me insane or someone who is on the there way there. It's not your out of the box thinking that worries me, its your out of your mind thinking that makes
me feel you have serious issues. I hope you get some help. I really do
Mark >>
Yep, I appreciate the phony concern, but it's not needed. Save it..
Let me say this. You may not understand everything I discuss on here. Some of it may sound crazy because we do live in a crazy world. But, in due time, it will make sense as it comes to pass.
All one has to do is research what your world leaders are calling for. Once you do that, you just might begin to understand things a bit better. All I have done for the most part is repeat what they have said their desired goals and agenda for this world are. Their words can be easily found in video taped interviews, books they have written, or in white papers they have written. There is no reason to continue to claim I have "issues" if you are too lazy to do the research on what is really at the bottom of the rabbit hole.