What killed the local card show?
DCanfield
Posts: 548 ✭
I was thinking back 20 years ago to the monthly card shows hosted by Ed Keetz at the Polish Community Center in Albany, NY. 110 tables with about 90 dealers selling everything from vintage cards to modern, old wax to the latest issue, supplies, memorabilia, and probably an autograph guest to boot! From 9 AM to 3 PM the crowds were huge. Fast forward 20 years and look at today's shows around the country. First, you're lucky if you even have a show and if you do, it's probably nothing to write home about.
So what killed the shows. Too high production runs of cards? Too many different products? Too many subsets/inserts/chrome platinum gizmos? Speculators rather than collectors? Price of product not allowing some collectors the ability to collect it? Professional sports leagues requiring too many $$ from manufacturers leading to overproduction and high prices in order to turn a profit? Unknowledgeable or greedy dealers driving off collectors? Fraud (like fake autographs or doctored cards)?
Is it my age that makes me say I sure miss the good old days?
I'm interested to hear your opinions.
So what killed the shows. Too high production runs of cards? Too many different products? Too many subsets/inserts/chrome platinum gizmos? Speculators rather than collectors? Price of product not allowing some collectors the ability to collect it? Professional sports leagues requiring too many $$ from manufacturers leading to overproduction and high prices in order to turn a profit? Unknowledgeable or greedy dealers driving off collectors? Fraud (like fake autographs or doctored cards)?
Is it my age that makes me say I sure miss the good old days?
I'm interested to hear your opinions.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!' Mark Frost
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Comments
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
#2 Overproduction.
#3 1994 baseball strike has to play a role somewhere in all of this.
IMF
The internet has put the items we desire at our fingertips. The quest is much easier. In that respect I must agree with the comments made. I think I miss the camaraderie and talking hobby that was present 20+ years ago. I certainly miss the players that I got to spend some time with during those autograph sessions. I know getting to meet some of the CU board members at this years National reminded me of those days gone by.
Thanks everyone for the comments!
Doug
<< <i>All of the things you mentioned and Ebay. >>
yep, most local shows I went to back in the day were a bunch of small time dealers with rip off prices, no way they could continue to sell with ebay as an option.
<< <i>Doug ... I have to think that the Internet in general and ebay more specifically is the biggest reason. When I got back into collecting at the age of ~25 (1983 or so), the only place you could get stuff was at the Saturday/Sunday shows and some local card shops. Man, I do miss those days of going from show to show (sometimes 2 or 3) on a Saturday or Sunday and putting together my '67 baseball set card by card! >>
As George Kell would tell Al Kaline on the Tiger Telecasts "Doug Youre sooo Ryte!!!
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>If you are worried about that, then you really should stop being cheap, join VCP and a nice sniping program like bidnip. >>
I'm too concerned right now with getting a booger off my GAI slab.
<< <i>My local card show. Dealer had a Jim Brown rookie, that was gonna be a PSA 1, no question about it. I asked him how much - he stated '$500', but I can work with you. At that price, we were too far off. Any price I offered was gonna be an insult to him, and there was no denying what the card was going to grade. That scenario give you a good idea what has ruined the local card show. >>
You see the same thing on ebay with Buy it Nows. There is good and bad all over.
<< <i>I'm too concerned right now with getting a booger off my GAI slab. >>
Then I suggest you sell it on Ebay for 99 cents and then complain that someone dinged your shipping stars because you shipped it in a PWE.
<< <i>Killed implies that they no longer exist. Negatively affected is a better sentiment. But it's the internet. That is the only answer. >>
That's the point, most of them don't exist any more including the one I referenced. 110 tables, 90 dealers and poof, gone! Those few that remain have probably been "negatively affected".
Paul.
Later, Paul.
Once upon a time, the local card show dealers only had to compete with like 5-10 other dealers. Now everyone is a dealer with the advance on eBay and the like, and bloated prices for VG Joe Montana rookies don't fly.
Yes, there were always people who wanted too much for their cards, but there is now too...ON the internet.
I've used this example before, but in my line of business, we sell the same thing that online people do, but we sell it for less. The problem is, people are too lazy sometimes to get up off their butt and drive 2 miles to my store to see that they can save 10-20% or more for the same item, plus save on shipping in some cases. They would prefer to sit at home and buy the merchandise while drinking the slimfast and eating the large pepperoni pizza.
Problem is, nothing will change, in fact, it will only get worse in terms of local card shows. I havent been to a show in 5 years and the internet is the main reason and yes, I love my pizza, but in the end, unless there is something rare that you cannot find on the internet, shows are going to be gone pretty soon as will a lot of businesses. The worse problem is that when people buy on the internet instead of locally, they lose part of the money from their community and then in a round-a-bout way, have to pay more in taxes.
I can understand buying an item for $20 online, that it would cost $50 locally, but what about the $10 online item that costs $10.25 locally?
I believe we should also note the widespread acceptance of, and preference for, graded cards greatly boosting internet selling. If raw cards were still the norm, then card shows may have maintained much of their appeal.
<< <i>My local card show. Dealer had a Jim Brown rookie, that was gonna be a PSA 1, no question about it. I asked him how much - he stated '$500', but I can work with you. At that price, we were too far off. Any price I offered was gonna be an insult to him, and there was no denying what the card was going to grade. That scenario give you a good idea what has ruined the local card show. >>
That did it for me. When I look back at least half of the stuff that I bought raw at shows from the ages of 10 to 16 was either badly misscut or poorly centered.
Luckily my local card shop guy sold me some nice stuff when I was a kid.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
The top twp reasons I would pick for the death of the card shows are: the internet and over-production. Of course Pete Rose has to take some blame...
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
When I was a kind in the 80's I tried to get every single card made of my favorite players. As you all know, eventually card manufacturers flooded the market with products rendering most of the cards worthless. Later they came up with the idea of parallels, and 1/1's trying to create some imaginary value. My goal was no longer possible and I could tell that I was being played for a fool. When they started chopping up alleged "game worn" jerseys into little pieces I'd had enough and quit collecting.
Years later I discovered psacard.com. They had a lot of options for collecting sets like rookie sets and basic sets. Having something sane and attainable to shoot for got me back in the mood to collect. Collecting graded cards has it's ups and downs too but it's something I really enjoy.
Bernie Kosar collector
Around 1988-1993 I used to go to all the local card shows on Long Island/NYC and Northern NJ. There used to be a somewhat regular monthly show on Long Island at Temple Beth El on Jeruselem Ave. in Massapequa. Every dealer was 300lb.+ and were always slurping up their super-sized bacon, egg and cheese on bagels with ketchup along with a huge Hershey's chocolate milk with the grease all over their faces and fat fingers. I bought some top-loaders and went out to make a phone call at a pay phone on the street. (pre-cell phone days!) The top-loaders were in a brown lunch-sized paper bag. When I came back in, I was walking in the main corridor when this lady walks up to me with a scowl and without a word, rips the bag out of my hand, yelling at me how dare I bring in a non-kosher sandwich into her holy temple. Upon her tearing the bag open to find packs of 25 count clear plastic Top-Loaders, she handed it back to me, her nose up, never apologizing. I was like 20 then so I wasn't as quick witted or as much of a smart ass as I am now to rebut her with a good tongue lashing! I was humiliated and never went back to that show again.
Fast forward to this year. I went to my first show in almost 20 years at the greater Philly Convention Center in Oaks, PA. I was looking to buy Card Saver I's for PSA submissions. There was only one dealer there specializing in cases, pocket sheets, bat tubes, etc. He only had Ultra-Pro where on the box it says you can use for "grading submissions". It didn't specify a grading company. I politely asked if these would be acceptable to PSA because PSA states to use a Card Saver I. He screams at me "SAME THING!!!!!". I asked, "Are you sure PSA will accept them?", He screams back "ULTRA PRO AND CARD SAVERS ARE MADE BY THE SAME F'N COMPANY IN CHINA!!!!!!!" I turned around and left. I'll continue to buy them online.
To me, horrible service and rudeness killed the local card show.
I went to a different shop the other day that happened to be at a mall we were at, and while they had some great prices on new wax, the fat bastage that was working never once said hi or got off his butt to assist my son and I. So while my son was asking to buy some football/hockey cards, I had to tell him we would wait until the next day because we aren't going to provide any business to someone who can't even acknowledge that we were there.
As to the obese dealers of 15 years ago............this is very sad..........but very true. The rudeness, pricing and grading of their EX cards as NM was really junky.
As to card shops with horrible customer service....this is sad.........but also very true. Most of the owners know they have a bunch of junk VG-EX cards that they know will not sell so in turn they don't even want to bend over to get the cards out of the glass cases for their customers. I hate to see the big glass cases that require a serious stretch and bend/reach to get to the cards........and the owner is about 70 years old or 375 LBS.
If dealers/collectors wanted to get together and do shows they could. They are just choosing to not do it.
Mickey71
In all the area shows I've gone to, I've only encountered two dealers that dealt in quality, vintage goods and knew how to negotiate.
Not to mention, a lot of the guys I see selling look as if they are barely able to take care of themselves. They don't seem passionate about anything, they're unpleasant to deal with, and they just don't exude the love of the hobby.
I too was disgusted by the sight of these obese middle-aged men at card shows who barely made an effort to acknowlege me. (they always seemed to be gorging themselves on nachos or hotdogs). I never understood how guys could set up at a show to meet and greet the public and sell their stuff and yet have such horrible customer service and people skills.
Dave
As a collector I'm thankfull for the internet because it allows me to get full market value when I choose to sell a card. I have access to millions of potential customers and I don't have to sell my cards to local dealers for peniies on the dollar.
Bernie Kosar collector