How would you have reacted?
piecesofme
Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
This is an honest to god deal I thought I had locked in today. There is no embellishment whatsoever.
You should know two key things I guess, I am not a dealer, but have been known to do significant deals locally and am known amongst the coin community in the area very well, possibly just as well as b&m's. Secondly, the b&m dealer that walked in and I can't stand each for our own reasons.
How would you have reacted to this conversation?
I am at one of my local b&m guys that I done business with for about 5 years and have spent ten of thousands of $'s with and I am in the process of looking thru over 150 raw lower grade Morgans when the owner of another local b&m walks in. He proceeds over to where I'm at and is peering over my shoulder.
I say: You can look at them if I don't buy them, I was here first this time bud...the owner of the b&m I'm in agrees with that by nodding his head to both of us.
After about another 3 minutes, I am done looking and call over the owner of the b&m he says: You can have them for $X/coin but you have to buy them all.
I say within a matter of 2 seconds: I'll take them.
The b&m dealer that walked in says: I will do .50 more per coin.
I say: Wait a minute, did you not hear me just say I would take them?
The owner of the b&m says: I did not accept your offer though.
I say: BS! You just said that I can have them for $X/coin, but I have to take them all and I said I would do that.
The owner of the b&m says: But you just heard (the other b&m dealer that walked in) say he'd do .50 more/coin. Can you match that?
I say: Hell no, reminding him again of him saying that I could have them for $x if I took them all.
The owner of the b&m says: I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to go with the highest bid.
I say: When did we say we were bidding? You made an offer and I accepted it?
The owner of the b&m says: I'm sorry Rich. Match it and you can have it, after all, you were here first.
I say: It's already mine because I agreed to your offer before (the other dealer that walked in) chimed in, which it is no damn business of his to begin with.
The dealer that walked in says: My offer stands.
I say: What offer? On what? You haven't even looked at these other than lurching over my shoulder for a minute and you're just gonna say you're outbidding me after I accepted (the b&m dealers) offer? Who the he11 do you think you are?
(There was absolutely no one else in the store, so it wasn't like I was creating a disturbance. It was originally just the 2 of us until the other b&m guy walked in.)
The owner of the b&m says: I've got a better offer, if can you match it, it's yours?
I say: What kind of (censored) scheme are you guys trying to work on me, all for (roughly) $75?
The b&m owner and the one that walked in confirms by saying: What do you want to do?
I say: Nothing with you ever again! You just lost a good customer! Have fun trying to scam someone else. I can't believe you're letting our business relationship be sold out over $75. Go buy your buddy dinner with it.
Nothing else was said by anyone as i walked out the door for the last time.
So the question I pose tho you all here, would you have handled this any differently given the EXACT circumstances? Perhaps some of you have been in similar situations and I'm curious to hear how you handled it.
You should know two key things I guess, I am not a dealer, but have been known to do significant deals locally and am known amongst the coin community in the area very well, possibly just as well as b&m's. Secondly, the b&m dealer that walked in and I can't stand each for our own reasons.
How would you have reacted to this conversation?
I am at one of my local b&m guys that I done business with for about 5 years and have spent ten of thousands of $'s with and I am in the process of looking thru over 150 raw lower grade Morgans when the owner of another local b&m walks in. He proceeds over to where I'm at and is peering over my shoulder.
I say: You can look at them if I don't buy them, I was here first this time bud...the owner of the b&m I'm in agrees with that by nodding his head to both of us.
After about another 3 minutes, I am done looking and call over the owner of the b&m he says: You can have them for $X/coin but you have to buy them all.
I say within a matter of 2 seconds: I'll take them.
The b&m dealer that walked in says: I will do .50 more per coin.
I say: Wait a minute, did you not hear me just say I would take them?
The owner of the b&m says: I did not accept your offer though.
I say: BS! You just said that I can have them for $X/coin, but I have to take them all and I said I would do that.
The owner of the b&m says: But you just heard (the other b&m dealer that walked in) say he'd do .50 more/coin. Can you match that?
I say: Hell no, reminding him again of him saying that I could have them for $x if I took them all.
The owner of the b&m says: I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to go with the highest bid.
I say: When did we say we were bidding? You made an offer and I accepted it?
The owner of the b&m says: I'm sorry Rich. Match it and you can have it, after all, you were here first.
I say: It's already mine because I agreed to your offer before (the other dealer that walked in) chimed in, which it is no damn business of his to begin with.
The dealer that walked in says: My offer stands.
I say: What offer? On what? You haven't even looked at these other than lurching over my shoulder for a minute and you're just gonna say you're outbidding me after I accepted (the b&m dealers) offer? Who the he11 do you think you are?
(There was absolutely no one else in the store, so it wasn't like I was creating a disturbance. It was originally just the 2 of us until the other b&m guy walked in.)
The owner of the b&m says: I've got a better offer, if can you match it, it's yours?
I say: What kind of (censored) scheme are you guys trying to work on me, all for (roughly) $75?
The b&m owner and the one that walked in confirms by saying: What do you want to do?
I say: Nothing with you ever again! You just lost a good customer! Have fun trying to scam someone else. I can't believe you're letting our business relationship be sold out over $75. Go buy your buddy dinner with it.
Nothing else was said by anyone as i walked out the door for the last time.
So the question I pose tho you all here, would you have handled this any differently given the EXACT circumstances? Perhaps some of you have been in similar situations and I'm curious to hear how you handled it.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The dealer that walked in is scum of the Earth. The kind of dealer that doesn't let old ladies know what their deceased husband had when they bring it to him to sell.
The dealer whose store I was in is actually a nice guy, given me deals, as I have to him. This is why I was so taken by surprise at his actions. He really showed some poor judgement today and has lost one of his best volume customers.
I'm sure the second dealer didn't buy them either
I was so upset, I had to sit in the car for 4-5 minutes before driving. I know that might sound silly, but that's how upset I was. They probably thought I was going to come back in and give them he11 again LOL...but I was just cooling off. I know better than to get behind the wheel in busy traffic already being steamed.
I never saw the dealer that walked in leave, so I guess I'll never know if he actually purchased, although I agree with you derryb...they were trying to run me.
I may have been born on a Tuesday...but it wasn't yesterday.
P.S.
Thank you all for allowing me to vent a little.
Based on the description of the store owner, maybe a visit in a week or two once you're fully cooled off, would be in order. Let him know your thoughts regarding the deal and tell him you have no problem taking your business elsewhere if that is how he is going to deal with you.
I have a feeling the owner of the store will be eager to make it up to you and then treat you correctly in the future in similar situations.
I would have done the same thing.
<< <i>you handled it perfectly, the dealer that walked in was shilling the price up for a fellow dealer. I'm sure the second dealer didn't buy them either. >>
Excellent point and I agree. The other dealer hadn't even examined the coins when he made his offer so he could have been trying to help a fellow dealer. I bet the dealer still has them and is still trying to sell them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
it's not hard to find junky Morgans. Had it been a coin i really wanted for my collection (these are hard to find nowadays) , I'd have handled it quite a bit more like you did, probably.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I would walk out, never deal with the dealer again and make sure other potential buyers were suitably informed.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
In hind sight,
You could have counter bid, and said you'd take them, and even invoked another bid round and bid higher.
Then not accept the deal, and walked out. Hah.
But seriously, you found out how the guy does business and how he regards your business. That is worth a lot.
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I have contacted 6 other b&m dealers I've been dealing with for years locally via email. 5 have replied saying that even they are shocked knowing the guy personally. 1 has even said that he is going to voice his feelings to him via phone tomorrow.
It's nice to know I have some (dealer) friends around here and they are backing me up.
You know it's one thing if I'm just some guy that walked into a new store, unfamiliar to me, and I get singled out to try and do this scam they obviously did...but we've got history, good history. That's why I am still upset about it. I almost feel like I've lost a friend over a few bucks that he was trying to squeeze out of me. Which is fine, go ahead and make a few extra bucks off of me...I'm technically not a dealer, I understand that. It's just the way it happened is what has left me with such a bitter taste. Unreal!
I'm sure some of you can relate having been in similar circumstances. Damn man...a deal is a deal whether it's with someone new or a longtime business relationship.
Once an offer is made and the other person accepts it, that's a deal. It's not brain surgery. I just still can't believe that he was willing to throw all of our good business, that has gone both ways, out the window for what amounted to about $75...even if the other dealer didn't actually buy it.
That very well could be the case, as I admit that I cannot stand him, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
Be he is not the person I am upset with. It's the guy that I've done good business with that I am upset with for following thru...even if it was a joke to get me going.
Trust me, we are/were good enough friends that he would not have let me walk out of the store if it was all a "let's get Rich riled up" scheme.
He would've said, get back in here you a-hole...we're just having some fun with you. That didn't happen, and there was enough time for it to happen by the time I walked out.
Just kidding... there have been discussions on this forum before how one is never to interfere when a dealer is making an offer or negotiating with someone with coins to sell, even when a low ball offer is made. That is also why it is so surprising that this shop owner did something very similar. I would have walked out also and would not return for a long time, if ever. There are plenty of good deals to be made elsewhere
<< <i>Hey, turn the tables on the shop owner.... if he sets up in a local coin show, the next time you see him making an offer to someone for a collection/coins... jump in and offer more!
Just kidding... there have been discussions on this forum before how one is never to interfere when a dealer is making an offer or negotiating with someone with coins to sell, even when a low ball offer is made. That is also why it is so surprising that this shop owner did something very similar. I would have walked out also and would not return for a long time, if ever. There are plenty of good deals to be made elsewhere >>
This
Plus...... I would take the "just kidding" part out. You should start clipping his deals. Stand out front and tell every person going in that you will give them 20% more than the coin dealer.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I knew it would happen.
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As far as revenge or retaliation though, nah ... that kind of bad karma will run it's course without you, and you'll be better off where you stand now ... having just walked away.
You're a good guy Rich, and I'm sure the good karma will follow your way.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Of course I'm kidding. It's stupid what some people will do to gain a measly $75 and lose a long standing customer.
What would you have done had there been an 1889-CC among the bunch?
Would you then have ponied up the additional $75.?
peacockcoins
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I started my favorite specialty while still at Heritage 20+ years ago ( my how time flies eh? ) and it was ruff ruff ruff then. Now, not so much. But before Heritage I also spent 10 years floating around and went from being a pretty large metals guy in new germany ( 15,000+ oz's of silver a DAY in the heyday ) working on a couple percent to owning 2 coins shops in belmar and bricktown nj to being broke on my azz having to look for a dang job ( it's how I landed at blanchard and then heritage over 20 years ago ) My opinion based on experience would be to find a nitche so you don't have to waste time over ".50 cents a coin".
Unless of course that kind of experience is fun and/or if you feel like you're improving year after year with what you are doing, then you're already set. It's always good to sit with pen and paper and figure out where you've been, where you are, where you want to go etc.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Would you then have ponied up the additional $75.?>>>
I did not see an '89 CC in the bunch, and if I did, I would've brought it to his attention. This actually has happened 2 times when I was looking thru a Lot of what he was selling that he had not had a chance to rummage thru. No '89 CC's, but other key dates, and I put them off to the side and when I was done looking I let him know and made an offer. It was done to let him know I appreciated him letting me look thru a Lot before he even did and that I could be trusted. Both times he cut me a sweet deal on the key date.
Like I said earlier, our "deals" have gone both ways. I've given him plenty too.
I'm going to call him today and give him a chance to explain himself. I would hope that he would do the same for me if I had lost my mind and made a poor decision the way he did. I'll update later today.
<< <i><<<What would you have done had there been an 1889-CC among the bunch?
Would you then have ponied up the additional $75.?>>>
I did not see an '89 CC in the bunch, and if I did, I would've brought it to his attention. This actually has happened 2 times when I was looking thru a Lot of what he was selling that he had not had a chance to rummage thru. No '89 CC's, but other key dates, and I put them off to the side and when I was done looking I let him know and made an offer. It was done to let him know I appreciated him letting me look thru a Lot before he even did and that I could be trusted. Both times he cut me a sweet deal on the key date.
Like I said earlier, our "deals" have gone both ways. I've given him plenty too.
I'm going to call him today and give him a chance to explain himself. I would hope that he would do the same for me if I had lost my mind and made a poor decision the way he did. I'll update later today. >>
Seems like the kind of guy who will tell you what you want to hear today. I wouldn't darken his door ever again, he showed his true colors IMHO.
One of the rules is that if Party A makes an offer and Party B accepts the offer, there is a contract.
Now, there can be exceptions in the case of obvious error, say if a secretary types ten cents per item instead of ten dollars per item, put an accepted offer is a contract.
As scams go, that doesn't sound like a very good one, though. Good scams are when the scamee doesn't know he is being fleeced by the scammer. This scam was like trying to kill an ant on the sidewalk with a twenty pound sledgehammer and broke all the concrete in the process.
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
This behavior is totally unethical, I have never even thought of chiming in on a transaction in a coin store or at a show because it shows no class.
My question to the dealer would be how would he react if a customer came in to his store and towards the end of a transaction you offered $75 more on a similiar dollar amount?
walk
out of the store 4 ever.
For $75, you found out his true nature.
I think, a valuable piece of information.
Get rid of him and never go back...end of story.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
He still has the tractor.
Long story short, He justified his actions by again saying that (in his mind) he didn't accept my offer when I said I will take them...after he made his offer.
I'm done with him. What a shame it is to see someone I've dealt with for some time and respected, basically (apparently) not want my business anymore.
<< <i>I agree with the others here ... and with you. It sucks, but all the better to know now, and I would have done much the same.
As far as revenge or retaliation though, nah ... that kind of bad karma will run it's course without you, and you'll be better off where you stand now ... having just walked away.
You're a good guy Rich, and I'm sure the good karma will follow your way. >>
BUT . . . Let everyone you know who also deals with him exactly what kind if a$$hole chisler he really is.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
You may want to place an ad in the same venue he uses, saying you pay 50¢ more
per coin than any other dealer in this magazine, newspaper or whatever. A one time
ad might get you some business and certainly tell the dealer where you stand with him.
From now on, all is fair in love and war and Coins!
bob
<< <i>Did you call him back yet today?
Long story short, He justified his actions by again saying that (in his mind) he didn't accept my offer when I said I will take them...after he made his offer.
I'm done with him. What a shame it is to see someone I've dealt with for some time and respected, basically (apparently) not want my business anymore. >>
He couldn't have accepted your offer because you didn't make him an offer. He made the offer to you which YOU accepted. CASE CLOSED, END OF DISCUSSION.
Would I ever go into the shop again? I don't know... depends on material that the owner gets, and the deals that I was able to do in the past. But if I did return, I know I would never be able to trust this person, and would deal with accordingly.