ebaybuyer, I agree with you. And I have a great eye for detail. And its very true. I have learned more from using Google to look up information, more than any other source. If I want to know it. I will find it.. Its a shame that some people want to bash. But hey, its what makes use all different... Along with a million other things. I do have a book called "COUNTERFEIT MIS-STRUCK and UNOFFICIAL U.S. COINS" by Don Taxay. But its an old publication, dated 1975. It was my step dads. So I imagine that in the past 37 years, There are much more informative books available.
the taxay book is a good read, but you want to learn as much as you can about the early lincoln mintmark style, and placement, it may be a good idea to consider getting the lincolns slabbed, or study hard and educate yourself,
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>never did i say that "a casual glance" is all that is needed to tell the real ones from the fakes. what i said was that the chinese fakes all have very similar charcteristics... to my eyes they all look the same, i did not say they all look identical and all have the same date or all are indian cents or anything else, to ME they all look similar. i dont know if i can make that any more clear than i have, perhaps i could have it translated into every known language so i wont be misunderstood, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, and i have stated mine, no one should rely on a photo (ebay or otherwise) as a definite means of authentication. i can tell a chinese fake from a real coin by certain characteristics, i did not say that EVERYONE can tell a fake from a good one, if i had, then i could see where there would be so much room for disagreement, >>
Granted, you did not use the language "a casual glance", although that is what I inferred from your posts.
Tell us, how many examples of Chinese counterfeits have you inspected in-hand? Do you think that experience lets you characterize "all" Chinese fakes as having "very similar characteristics"? What "certain characteristics" have you found?
Getting past that, and since you don't seem to believe the experienced collectors who disagree with you, perhaps you should ask Kevin Flynn or Rick Snow (both members of this forum) if "all the Chinese fakes look similar" or if anyone can "tell a Chinese fake from a real coin by certain characteristics". Please do update this thread with the results of those conversations.
Frankly, I believe that you believe what you are saying -- and for many Chinese counterfeits your observations (e.g. they have a similar look) are very true -- however, you seem to lack exposure to the good fakes that aren't easily identified.
Remember, pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Take care...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Since you are now a coin dealer specializing in wheats and IHCs, having purchased over 80k wheats and 4k IHCs, it makes some sense to be able to tell the more obvious counterfeits yourself. This way you can cut down on the expense of TPG authentication when you don't want to be buried in the coin (expenses are more than market value). Study the coins you have and some of the more obvious diagnostics will become apparent. If you are unsure, you can post photos here as mentioned for an active and often educational discussion. For higher value coins which have a higher probability of being counterfeited, expert authentication may make sense. PCGS is a great TPG and ideal for high value coins. For coins where you are more price sensitive, check the prices for the other 3 major TPGs (approved by eBay) starting with ATS. While all TPGs have made mistakes, the advantage of using a top TPG, is that they will stand by their authentication and provide a guarantee if a coin turns out to be counterfeit. You can also work with expert dealers and collectors, though you may not get the same type of guarantee, grading and encapsulation a TPG provides. Even so, it may still be worthwhile to form a close working relationship with one or more of the well known small cent dealers, of which two were mentioned, to help mentor you in this area of numismatics. Best of luck.
Here is an item on E-Bay. 290746150337 It looks a lot like the date on the 1872 IH I have. I am hoping some of you will look it up and give your opinion. Thank you Ron
<< <i>Here is an item on E-Bay. 290746150337 It looks a lot like the date on the 1872 IH I have. I am hoping some of you will look it up and give your opinion. Thank you Ron >>
Ron, that 77 indian is an obvious fake!
Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!
<< <i>Tdec1000, You are the one that started this thread. So you should know first hand weather I posted that the coins were the real thing or not! >>
Yes I did, but if I had any doubts as a seller that the coins were not legitimate I wouldn't sell them on ebay period. I knew those two coins were fake the first time I saw them. I like the discussion (forums) as much as the next guy and I like to help educate folks. I ran across your listings because I am always on the lookout for nice indians and you do have a few nice ones listed but those two stuck out like a sore thumb.
Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!
This is getting very SERIOUS!!! I am going to contact the authorities soon.. I need to know certain things.. Anyone who feels they can help out here. PLEASE CALL ME>>> I may know exactly where the fakes are coming from!!!
So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers. Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!!
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers. Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
People are already doing something. The eBay Community Coin Watch group helps review and remove auctions of counterfeit coins. Often times, coins are brought up on these CU forums to discuss a coin before possible reporting to the eBay Community Coin Watch group which then pulls the auctions. The group is at least 8 years old.
Additionally, PCGS and others are working on a new bill in Congress, HR 5977. Please see this post from Don Willis, President, CU on requesting support for HR 5977 to help stop counterfeits.
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers. Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
We are serious, too.
But we haven't been sold any fakes (that we know of) so we can't make the calls.
you have to make the calls.
Oh, and if they came off eBay, you can call eBay, too.
Tell me, what calls would you make.. Because I play hardball. And go straight to the top.. E-bay has no clue what a fake is... Have you talked to them?
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers. Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
the doer part is removing your listings until you can authenticate the coins you are selling.
what do you suggest we do about them?
we have no power with removing your listings, we don't own the coins, there really is quite little we can do from our end . >>
rbrown1956 is a different seller than this one on here who is the subject of hte OP.
we can report the seller rbrown1956 to eBay, is this someone CrayZap is going to report, too? If it is, maybe some coordinated action would work better.
<< <i>Tell me, what calls would you make.. Because I play hardball. And go straight to the top.. E-bay has no clue what a fake is... Have you talked to them? >>
Don't you have a "Top Rated Seller" phone number to call?
No, they wouldn't know a fake if it clunked like lead or stuck to a magnet.
IF, and that is an important and BIG IF, you purchased the fakes that were removed off someone else on eBay, I'd call and let them know who they were purchased from.
I'd keep calling in until you talked with a clueful eBay rep. or ask to speak with a supervisor right away.
. if you want to get the blood pumping in ur mind before detecting counterfeits, i recommend watching a 13 year old fischer take on grandmaster byrne in a game of chess
im going to respond to mikeinfla because i was asked to.... if you read my prior responses in this thread, you will see what characteristics i am referring to... im glad you mentioned examining them in hand, not sure if you are aware of this, but the chinese counterfeits are not of the proper weight, because they are not of the proper alloy, some may be of 90% silver and 10% copper but they cannot (and have not) duplicated the trace elements that EXIST in genuine coins of any given time period. not sure if you are aware of the FACT that there also exists documentation of reed counts that are year and mint specific for most all series, are the chinese aware of this ? obviously not. they arent even aware of what mints where in operation in what time frames or what coins were being minted in a given time frame, as EVIDENCED by the 1840 "CC" seated dollars, the 1865 washington "dollar" coins that show up frequently, rather than bashing someone perhaps you could take the time to learn something
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
furthermore, when you "infer" something from my post, i would appreciate if you do not post your inferences as if they were my words.
i do not feel that i MUST agree with anyone... i believe i have the right to disagree with anyone and i have the right to form my opinion regardless if ANYONE here agrees with it or not. and again your inference of "anyone can tell a chinese fake from a real coin are your words, my words were that I (that means me) can tell MOST chinese fakes from certain charcteristics. if you want to disagree with me or if you somehow know what im thinking, please lets just agree to disagree, im not the type of person to back off when i am bashed by people who seemingly dont have anything educational to add to a post, they just want to dispense redicule.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
Comments
I do have a book called "COUNTERFEIT MIS-STRUCK and UNOFFICIAL U.S. COINS" by Don Taxay. But its an old publication, dated 1975. It was my step dads. So I imagine that in the past 37 years, There are much more informative books available.
<< <i>never did i say that "a casual glance" is all that is needed to tell the real ones from the fakes. what i said was that the chinese fakes all have very similar charcteristics... to my eyes they all look the same, i did not say they all look identical and all have the same date or all are indian cents or anything else, to ME they all look similar. i dont know if i can make that any more clear than i have, perhaps i could have it translated into every known language so i wont be misunderstood, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, and i have stated mine, no one should rely on a photo (ebay or otherwise) as a definite means of authentication. i can tell a chinese fake from a real coin by certain characteristics, i did not say that EVERYONE can tell a fake from a good one, if i had, then i could see where there would be so much room for disagreement, >>
Granted, you did not use the language "a casual glance", although that is what I inferred from your posts.
Tell us, how many examples of Chinese counterfeits have you inspected in-hand? Do you think that experience lets you characterize "all" Chinese fakes as having "very similar characteristics"? What "certain characteristics" have you found?
Getting past that, and since you don't seem to believe the experienced collectors who disagree with you, perhaps you should ask Kevin Flynn or Rick Snow (both members of this forum) if "all the Chinese fakes look similar" or if anyone can "tell a Chinese fake from a real coin by certain characteristics". Please do update this thread with the results of those conversations.
Frankly, I believe that you believe what you are saying -- and for many Chinese counterfeits your observations (e.g. they have a similar look) are very true -- however, you seem to lack exposure to the good fakes that aren't easily identified.
Remember, pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Take care...Mike
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
Since you are now a coin dealer specializing in wheats and IHCs, having purchased over 80k wheats and 4k IHCs, it makes some sense to be able to tell the more obvious counterfeits yourself. This way you can cut down on the expense of TPG authentication when you don't want to be buried in the coin (expenses are more than market value). Study the coins you have and some of the more obvious diagnostics will become apparent. If you are unsure, you can post photos here as mentioned for an active and often educational discussion. For higher value coins which have a higher probability of being counterfeited, expert authentication may make sense. PCGS is a great TPG and ideal for high value coins. For coins where you are more price sensitive, check the prices for the other 3 major TPGs (approved by eBay) starting with ATS. While all TPGs have made mistakes, the advantage of using a top TPG, is that they will stand by their authentication and provide a guarantee if a coin turns out to be counterfeit. You can also work with expert dealers and collectors, though you may not get the same type of guarantee, grading and encapsulation a TPG provides. Even so, it may still be worthwhile to form a close working relationship with one or more of the well known small cent dealers, of which two were mentioned, to help mentor you in this area of numismatics. Best of luck.
It looks a lot like the date on the 1872 IH I have. I am hoping some of you will look it up and give your opinion.
Thank you
Ron
<< <i>Here is an item on E-Bay. 290746150337
It looks a lot like the date on the 1872 IH I have. I am hoping some of you will look it up and give your opinion.
Thank you
Ron >>
Ron, that 77 indian is an obvious fake!
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
<< <i>Tdec1000, You are the one that started this thread. So you should know first hand weather I posted that the coins were the real thing or not! >>
Yes I did, but if I had any doubts as a seller that the coins were not legitimate I wouldn't sell them on ebay period. I knew those two coins were fake the first time I saw them. I like the discussion (forums) as much as the next guy and I like to help educate folks. I ran across your listings because I am always on the lookout for nice indians and you do have a few nice ones listed but those two stuck out like a sore thumb.
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
thanks to whomever reported those rolls. i see several that are questionable and will give them a good looking and/or reporting
.
first i had a great laugh followed abruptly by a great cry
i also saw many sold listings i felt were counterfeits. such a shame.
Thank you
Ron
<< <i>Lance, Would you contact me by phone please. 503-400-2437
Thank you
Ron >>
if you are the owner of any of the coins i've called fake, i apologize!
.
google grabs these pages
rbrown1956 has been buying bulk wheats and quantity Indians, too.
Thanks
nm. thought seller was posting here
.
Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!!
Call the Secret Service and the Postal Inspectors if they were shipped via US Mail.
Likely they won't care, but it's worth a shot.
There have been numerous reports of places selling fake coins in every denomination. Hopefully you can shut one down.
I see you have been buying from rbrown1956. There have been some successes posted on here of finding a collectible coin in an ""unsearched roll.""
However, the saying around here is "if they are unsearched wheats, then how do they know they are all wheats?"
tread carefully.
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers.
Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
People are already doing something. The eBay Community Coin Watch group helps review and remove auctions of counterfeit coins. Often times, coins are brought up on these CU forums to discuss a coin before possible reporting to the eBay Community Coin Watch group which then pulls the auctions. The group is at least 8 years old.
Additionally, PCGS and others are working on a new bill in Congress, HR 5977. Please see this post from Don Willis, President, CU on requesting support for HR 5977 to help stop counterfeits.
nm. thought seller was posting here
.
<< <i>However, the saying around here is "if they are unsearched wheats, then how do they know they are all wheats?"
tread carefully. >>
very nice. i like that
.
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers.
Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
We are serious, too.
But we haven't been sold any fakes (that we know of) so we can't make the calls.
you have to make the calls.
Oh, and if they came off eBay, you can call eBay, too.
<< <i>
<< <i>So let me ask EVERYONE this question. Are you just pointing out the fakes? Or do you want to do something about them? This is where the rubber meets the roads... All you talkers can take a hike.. I want to heard from the doers.
Nothing personal. But like I said. This is getting SERIOUS!!! >>
the doer part is removing your listings until you can authenticate the coins you are selling.
what do you suggest we do about them?
we have no power with removing your listings, we don't own the coins, there really is quite little we can do from our end
. >>
rbrown1956 is a different seller than this one on here who is the subject of hte OP.
we can report the seller rbrown1956 to eBay, is this someone CrayZap is going to report, too? If it is, maybe some coordinated action would work better.
<< <i>rbrown1956 is a different seller than this one on here who is the subject of hte OP. >>
ty for the clarification.
.
<< <i>Tell me, what calls would you make.. Because I play hardball. And go straight to the top.. E-bay has no clue what a fake is... Have you talked to them? >>
Don't you have a "Top Rated Seller" phone number to call?
No, they wouldn't know a fake if it clunked like lead or stuck to a magnet.
IF, and that is an important and BIG IF, you purchased the fakes that were removed off someone else on eBay, I'd call and let them know who they were purchased from.
I'd keep calling in until you talked with a clueful eBay rep. or ask to speak with a supervisor right away.
just adding this link for future reference
.
<< <i>I have been waiting all day for a supervisor to return my call... >>
Call the security section , they usually pick up .
<< <i>.
just adding this link for future reference
. >>
This works too: rbrown1956
Thank you
<< <i>
<< <i>I have been waiting all day for a supervisor to return my call... >>
Call the security section , they usually pick up . >>
I just keep calling.
http://reviews.ebay.com/BU-Roll-Buyer-apos-s-Guide-Part-3-Where-Rolls-Come-From?ugid=10000000001449256
i'm enjoying the challenge of identifying counterfeits.
post some images
edited to add:
choose the higher value ones
.
<< <i>This is serious, becuase I have spent $10,000 plus on his rolls!!! Fbi is getting a call too... >>
Dang! Thats a lot of cheddar to spend with that guy! I wouldn't purchase one of his rolls! I just reported him as well.
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
anyone else play wgt online? that is what i was doing while cleaning up some counterfeits online.
.
if you want to get the blood pumping in ur mind before detecting counterfeits, i recommend watching a 13 year old fischer take on grandmaster byrne in a game of chess
never fails to get the creative juices flowing
.
<< <i>FBI says Secert Serivce!! >>
then you missed that post that said Secret Service and if they came in the mail the Postal Inspectors service.
If you can get them to care.
You spent over $10k? Were all the coins in the 10k price fake or just a portion?
i do not feel that i MUST agree with anyone... i believe i have the right to disagree with anyone and i have the right to form my opinion regardless if ANYONE here agrees with it or not. and again your inference of "anyone can tell a chinese fake from a real coin are your words, my words were that I (that means me) can tell MOST chinese fakes from certain charcteristics. if you want to disagree with me or if you somehow know what im thinking, please lets just agree to disagree, im not the type of person to back off when i am bashed by people who seemingly dont have anything educational to add to a post,
they just want to dispense redicule.