Explaining the Cult of Joe Pa
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Interesting article on Deadspin, written by a Penn State employee
Article
I think this passage sums thing up nicely:
"So what's wrong with these people? The easy answer is that they—we—bought into a lie, giving unconditional loyalty to a man whose boring but undeniable on-field success, whose lip service paid to academics, whose financial largess fooled us all into thinking he was unique. Granted absolute trust and unparalleled power, he abused both in ways large and small. We all know now where that led, and we're exposed as the worst sort of suckers for ever buying in.
Actual explanations are rarely so easy, and this one is no exception. For decades, there weren't any obvious reasons to think this was a lie. The academic commitment wasn't lip service, and Paterno was unique among big-time football coaches. Yes, he had immense power, but he seemed to wield it in all the right ways. His teams won; his players graduated; the money flowed in; and the university grew. Only in the last decade or so were there blatant reasons for skepticism—but inevitably, those were outweighed in the collective Penn State consciousness by the nearly four decades that had come before."
Article
I think this passage sums thing up nicely:
"So what's wrong with these people? The easy answer is that they—we—bought into a lie, giving unconditional loyalty to a man whose boring but undeniable on-field success, whose lip service paid to academics, whose financial largess fooled us all into thinking he was unique. Granted absolute trust and unparalleled power, he abused both in ways large and small. We all know now where that led, and we're exposed as the worst sort of suckers for ever buying in.
Actual explanations are rarely so easy, and this one is no exception. For decades, there weren't any obvious reasons to think this was a lie. The academic commitment wasn't lip service, and Paterno was unique among big-time football coaches. Yes, he had immense power, but he seemed to wield it in all the right ways. His teams won; his players graduated; the money flowed in; and the university grew. Only in the last decade or so were there blatant reasons for skepticism—but inevitably, those were outweighed in the collective Penn State consciousness by the nearly four decades that had come before."
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
BTW, I can't even call the guy by the name in the thread title, as he has no business being referred to in such a fatherly-sounding title.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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<< <i>
BTW, I can't even call the guy by the name in the thread title, as he has no business being referred to in such a fatherly-sounding title. >>
Couldn't agree more with that line. His reputation is completely destroyed as is the football program. How many parents are now going to convince their sons to go play elsewhere?
One thing that I have yet to see mentioned anywhere is the fact that Paterno's son had a promising career in college football. Will he ever get a decent job at any level of organized football?
<< <i>
<< <i>
BTW, I can't even call the guy by the name in the thread title, as he has no business being referred to in such a fatherly-sounding title. >>
Couldn't agree more with that line. His reputation is completely destroyed as is the football program. How many parents are now going to convince their sons to go play elsewhere?
One thing that I have yet to see mentioned anywhere is the fact that Paterno's son had a promising career in college football. Will he ever get a decent job at any level of organized football? >>
I agree the football program also takes a hit but to me Paterno, the man, has been proven to be a total scumbag. It's not a "lapse in judgement." He's a scumbag and that's much more of the focus for me than the football side of things. I hope the Paterno fan club wakes up. Anybody apologizing for the man, saying it was a lapse in judgement or any other BS, is a scumbag just like Paterno in my opinion. It's now proven so let's not defend the guy anymore!
As for his son I actually hope it doesn't affect his ability to get a job as it shouldn't. It might but I don't think it should. They are separate people and nothing indicates the son knew about what was going on. I would suggest the son stop talking to the media though as it will only make him sound like an idiot trying to defend his scumbag dad.
<< <i>I agree the football program also takes a hit but to me Paterno, the man, has been proven to be a total scumbag. It's not a "lapse in judgement." He's a scumbag and that's much more of the focus for me than the football side of things. I hope the Paterno fan club wakes up. Anybody apologizing for the man, saying it was a lapse in judgement or any other BS, is a scumbag just like Paterno in my opinion. It's now proven so let's not defend the guy anymore!
As for his son I actually hope it doesn't affect his ability to get a job as it shouldn't. It might but I don't think it should. They are separate people and nothing indicates the son knew about what was going on. I would suggest the son stop talking to the media though as it will only make him sound like an idiot trying to defend his scumbag dad. >>
I couldn't agree more. Well said.
"Some of the report's most damning evidence against Paterno consists of handwritten notes and emails that portray him as being involved with a decision by the officials not to tell child welfare authorities about the 2001 encounter.
Spanier, Schultz and Curley drew up a plan that called for reporting Sandusky to the state Department of Child Welfare. But Curley later said in an email that he changed his mind about the plan "after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe."
Spanier concurred but noted "the only downside for us is if the message isn't (heard) and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it."
The emails also show Paterno closely followed the 1998 allegation"
Ouch.
Great football coach, maybe. Great man? Hardly.
<< <i>It's just too bad that you people don't put this much effort and condemnation toward the Catholic church. Take the Jerry Sandusky cover-up, multiply it by a thousand, and you have the Catholic church. Of course, that wouldn't be eligible for the Sports Talk forum would it. >>
I'm sure people did, just not here.
My guess is that Paterno was the 800 lb. gorilla in the room and that whatever he said, whatever position he took, was "The Law" and followed/complied with without question by all of those around him [including subordinates, peers and most likely superiors on the organizational chart at PSU]. I suspect that Paterno wielded so much power and influence in and around PSU, College Station and the State Of Pennsylvania, both in the private sector, the halls of academia and in local and state government that no one would have the fortitude to disagree with him and stand up to him.
Spanier's acknowledgement of being "vulnerable for not having reported it" evidences that he clearly understood the downside to not reporting Sandusky. Even with this understanding he still went along with what seems to be Paterno's position to not report Sandusky. The only reason any sane and moral person in a position of power and authority at PSU would have to not report Sandusky is self interest and protecting one's empire/turf.
Me thinks Paterno knew that Sandusky was a danger to children and nonetheless chose him and PSU football over the welfare of numerous children.
<< <i>higher up churchmen >>
You mean the Pope, right?
<< <i>Bishops, Cardinals, Pope and anyone else in the church that knew of what pedophile priests were doing and did nothing prevent it/stop it. Shame on all of them and may they suffer greatly. >>
There's not enough vitrol in your post; therefore, your condemnation is not sufficient to justify the outrage toward JoPa and Penn State.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bishops, Cardinals, Pope and anyone else in the church that knew of what pedophile priests were doing and did nothing prevent it/stop it. Shame on all of them and may they suffer greatly. >>
There's not enough vitrol in your post; therefore, your condemnation is not sufficient to justify the outrage toward JoPa and Penn State.
vitriol - abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will
+1 For Barry introducing a new word to perkdogs vocabulary
Edit: BTW Hi Barry
<< <i>It's just too bad that you people don't put this much effort and condemnation toward the Catholic church. Take the Jerry Sandusky cover-up, multiply it by a thousand, and you have the Catholic church. Of course, that wouldn't be eligible for the Sports Talk forum would it. >>
Agreed with what sanction and Stown said...the people involved in the church cover ups are equally as awful, and should be(and have been) condemned for it.
There, does that make you feel better? Or are you still going to be in the camp of the people who still call him a great man???
It is also funny how people in that 'great man' camp have the excuse of, "everybody makes mistakes." Yes, everybody makes mistakes, but great men don't make those kind of mistakes...and the ones who do, are no longer considered great men.
That being said, I can't imagine how the true Paterno believers feel today. It's almost as though Santa was proven to be fake for them. I wonder how former players feel about these findings? Another thing, can they blow up those showers in the athletics building? If I was a Penn St athlete I would refuse to shower in there knowing what went down, even if it was years ago.
I'll actually be in the Lancaster, PA area next week visiting family...interested to hear their thoughts on it.
<< <i>It's just too bad that you people don't put this much effort and condemnation toward the Catholic church. Take the Jerry Sandusky cover-up, multiply it by a thousand, and you have the Catholic church. Of course, that wouldn't be eligible for the Sports Talk forum would it. >>
Correct- it wouldn't be eligible for discussion in a sports talk forum; for reasons, I hope, that are as obvious to you as they are to me. Therefore, it is the picture of presumption to assume that anyone participating in this thread has somehow chosen to minimize the scandals associated with the Catholic Church simply because they have not chosen to discuss their opinions of that scandal on this forum.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>After the revelations recently released concerning Joe Paterno's role in all of this, I'm really not sure how anyone can defend his actions at this point. He may have done a lot of good things but the totality of it will never mitigate what was a proactive cover-up, as well as a continual enabling of further sexual abuse of helpless children. As far as I'm concerned, the litmus test in this type of situation is to ask yourself this one question:
How would you feel about Paterno if it was YOUR child that Sandusky was raping??? >>
Thats the problem with all these self rightous politicaly correct morons that held vigils and "prayed" for him and defended him, they dont look at it like normal rational people do, again if they or a loved one were the victim then they would be first in line with axe in hand and holding court on the street. Paterno's legacy is not of a coaching great but tarnished with looking the other way as children were being brutalized.
In there it says that Paterno knew about the 1998 incident, yet still offered Sandusky positions according to the report.
Here is a quote from an article...
"Sandusky made plans to retire in 1999 and move on to an outreach program, despite Paterno and Curley offering him positions at Penn State athletics. The report notes Sandusky retired with the "unusual lump sum payment of $168,000" and access to university recreational facilities.
Sandusky would continue to assault children over the next two years on Penn State's campus and at a team hotel. McQueary witnessed an assault in February 2001 and immediately reported it to Paterno. According to the report, Paterno told McQueary, "You did what you had to do. It's my job now to figure out what we want to do."
Spanier, Curley, Schultz and Paterno then spent the next month debating what they would do and whether to report Sandusky to authorities. During this same period, Curley said he met with executive director of the Second Mile and "shared the information we had with him." The Second Mile leadership concludes the matter was a "non‐incident." Eventually, they decided not to report Sandusky at the insistence of Paterno."
I wonder if Franco Harris is under some rock now, or if he will find some other wax to excuse Paterno's behavior.
<< <i>Turning a blind eye to child rape is wrong, period. >>
I think this sums up the incident(s) quite well.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Soooo in comparison, what the NCAA should do is simply transfer Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno (if the situation hadn't killed him first) to a different university, and everything would be forgiven. Right?
Just saying maybe there should be more consistency in the sentencing of the criminals, and a little more condemnation of crowd that chooses to associate with their club.
I have no skin in this game, I'm a atheist Buckeyes fan, just looking for a little perspective.
<< <i>While I do feel Paterno is almost as guilty as Sandusky (remember, Paterno wasn't actually the one raping kids, however has been the most talked about), I feel that everyone is quite literally beating a dead horse (can't get much worse than dead). >>
The situation is not dead, sure Paterno is but people that were abused will be living it for the rest of their lives and the fact that information is coming out now that Paterno knew of Sanduskys crimes and Sandusky was found guilty in a court of law allows the topic to be discussed and finger pointing at those who defended Paterno is deserved. I havnt been following it but one thing I do wish is that POS Mike McQueary would get his.
Ellis County Children's Advocacy Center, Inc.
425 E. Ross Street, Waxahachie, Texas 75165
(972) 937-1870 Fax (972) 937-1891
Website: www.elliscountycac.org
John Wyckoff, Executive Director
john.eccac@ectisp.net
No donation is too small and you will receive a tax deductible receipt if you include your return address.
I am on the Board, the Executive Board, and serve as volunteer Treasurer of the Center as well. I was one of the original founding board members back in 1998, where we had to pool money out of our own pockets to afford the incorporation fees and IRS applications, all the way up to today, where we have a $550,000 building on the ground, 3 full time employees, and only $65,000 remaining on our building loan.
Specifically, we provide a one stop shop where child victims that have made an outcry, are interviewed by our trained forensic interviewer in a child friendly environment, and all the questions the various law enfoccement personnel need answered, are gathered in this video taped interview. Thus, the child only has to tell their story one time, rather then the old method of once to CPS, once to City police, once to Sheriff, once to DA's office, once in Courtroom, etc., etc., etc, thereby saving them from having to relive the trauma over and over again. Additionally, prior to our Center, if they changed one detail in their multiple stories, then defense atty's would jump all over them as being an unreliable witness, making cases harder to successfully prosecute.
Additionally, we also provide post experience, therapy treatments, for the child as well as all non-offending family members.
We are currently trying to raise about $15,000 to provide an addition to our main building, a play therapy room.
My community is one of only about 150,000 population, and yet we have over 200 forensic interviews per year. You would be shocked at the level of child sexual abuse. It's everywhere. If you feel compelled, please help us, help them.
Mike Navarro
Proud Treasurer of the Ellis County Children's Advocacy Center, Inc. DBA The Gingerbread House
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<< <i>For any of you that are troubled enough with the Joe Pa situation that you'd like to make a donation to a great organization that helps child victims of sexual abuse, you can send your donation to:
Ellis County Children's Advocacy Center, Inc.
425 E. Ross Street, Waxahachie, Texas 75165
(972) 937-1870 Fax (972) 937-1891
Website: www.elliscountycac.org
John Wyckoff, Executive Director
john.eccac@ectisp.net
No donation is too small and you will receive a tax deductible receipt if you include your return address.
I am on the Board, the Executive Board, and serve as volunteer Treasurer of the Center as well. I was one of the original founding board members back in 1998, where we had to pool money out of our own pockets to afford the incorporation fees and IRS applications, all the way up to today, where we have a $550,000 building on the ground, 3 full time employees, and only $65,000 remaining on our building loan.
Specifically, we provide a one stop shop where child victims that have made an outcry, are interviewed by our trained forensic interviewer in a child friendly environment, and all the questions the various law enfoccement personnel need answered, are gathered in this video taped interview. Thus, the child only has to tell their story one time, rather then the old method of once to CPS, once to City police, once to Sheriff, once to DA's office, once in Courtroom, etc., etc., etc, thereby saving them from having to relive the trauma over and over again. Additionally, prior to our Center, if they changed one detail in their multiple stories, then defense atty's would jump all over them as being an unreliable witness, making cases harder to successfully prosecute.
Additionally, we also provide post experience, therapy treatments, for the child as well as all non-offending family members.
We are currently trying to raise about $15,000 to provide an addition to our main building, a play therapy room.
My community is one of only about 150,000 population, and yet we have over 200 forensic interviews per year. You would be shocked at the level of child sexual abuse. It's everywhere. If you feel compelled, please help us, help them.
Mike Navarro
Proud Treasurer of the Ellis County Children's Advocacy Center, Inc. DBA The Gingerbread House >>
Good work Mike!
I've chosen to express my feelings in the form of a low-quality wrestling-inspried photoshopped montage.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
and give Joe's wife all the millions they donated over the years...
wont be long 'til his wife moves...
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Jay Paterno
Matt Millen
Franco Harris
Ziggy29
Hell, even Phil Knight left the island -- he took Paterno's name off the Nike day care center.
<< <i>Let's see, who's left on Paterno Island:
Jay Paterno
Matt Millen
Franco Harris
Ziggy29
Hell, even Phil Knight left the island -- he took Paterno's name off the Nike day care center. >>
SteveK
Link
<< <i>What a stooge I was.
I talked about Paterno's "true legacy" in all of this. Here's his true legacy: Paterno let a child molester go when he could've stopped him. He let him go and then lied to cover his sinister tracks. He let a rapist go to save his own recruiting successes and fundraising pitches and big-fish-small-pond hide.
Here's a legacy for you. Paterno's cowardice and ego and fears allowed Sandusky to molest at least eight more boys in the years after that 1998 incident -- Victims 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. Just to recap: By not acting, a grown man failed to protect eight boys from years of molestation, abuse and self-loathing, all to save his program the embarrassment. The mother of Victim 1 is "filled with hatred toward Joe Paterno," the victim's lawyer says. "She just hates him, and reviles him." Can you blame her?
What a sap I was. >>
"I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives."
<< <i>For reasons I cannot recall, stopped reading Reilly years ago but this is a good piece:
Link
>>
Great article. Especially interesting about the prof calling him.
I heard today about the Paterno family hiring people for their own investigation. No matter what their attorneys are able to spin I think the truth is out and I just wish the Paterno family would go away! Yes, I understand if I were in their shoes I would probably try to defend my father but the independent review has been done already! GO AWAY NOW!
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's see, who's left on Paterno Island:
Jay Paterno
Matt Millen
Franco Harris
Ziggy29
Hell, even Phil Knight left the island -- he took Paterno's name off the Nike day care center. >>
SteveK >>
Add Bill James as well. Very odd.
Red Sox should fire his ass as "consultant" -- his "advice" has not helped anyway -- he probably talked Theo into wasting $142 million on Crawford.
How about the current football players who have scholarships to play there... they're screwed out of any possibility of being drafted now. What can they do now?
I realize all of this seems insignificant compared to Sandusky's victims, but it's a real problem that needs to be considered when it comes to putting Penn State's head on the guillotine.
<< <i>So with Penn State's reputation completely ruined... what happens to Penn State's students? Do they stay and continue to go to college there, knowing that they will receive a diploma that will make people say "ohhh, Penn State... sorry"? I see Penn State alumni who receive that reaction even now, who went there before Sandusky was even in the picture. You want to hammer the institution, but at what cost? Hundreds of thousands of students and alumni that have to pay for what happened here? Most of which had nothing to do with the football program at all?
How about the current football players who have scholarships to play there... they're screwed out of any possibility of being drafted now. What can they do now?
I realize all of this seems insignificant compared to Sandusky's victims, but it's a real problem that needs to be considered when it comes to putting Penn State's head on the guillotine. >>
I dont believe any level headed person would ever hold this tragedy against a player or scholar, its pretty evident who the blame should be directed at and that is Paterno, his staff and the administration.
No way a company is going to make job applicant exempt because they went to Penn State, nor will a pro team not draft an athlete because of this.
<< <i>
<< <i>So with Penn State's reputation completely ruined... what happens to Penn State's students? Do they stay and continue to go to college there, knowing that they will receive a diploma that will make people say "ohhh, Penn State... sorry"? I see Penn State alumni who receive that reaction even now, who went there before Sandusky was even in the picture. You want to hammer the institution, but at what cost? Hundreds of thousands of students and alumni that have to pay for what happened here? Most of which had nothing to do with the football program at all?
How about the current football players who have scholarships to play there... they're screwed out of any possibility of being drafted now. What can they do now?
I realize all of this seems insignificant compared to Sandusky's victims, but it's a real problem that needs to be considered when it comes to putting Penn State's head on the guillotine. >>
I dont believe any level headed person would ever hold this tragedy against a player or scholar, its pretty evident who the blame should be directed at and that is Paterno, his staff and the administration.
No way a company is going to make job applicant exempt because they went to Penn State, nor will a pro team not draft an athlete because of this. >>
So you're saying the NCAA shouldn't block the football program from participating in bowl games, or take away scholarships?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So with Penn State's reputation completely ruined... what happens to Penn State's students? Do they stay and continue to go to college there, knowing that they will receive a diploma that will make people say "ohhh, Penn State... sorry"? I see Penn State alumni who receive that reaction even now, who went there before Sandusky was even in the picture. You want to hammer the institution, but at what cost? Hundreds of thousands of students and alumni that have to pay for what happened here? Most of which had nothing to do with the football program at all?
How about the current football players who have scholarships to play there... they're screwed out of any possibility of being drafted now. What can they do now?
I realize all of this seems insignificant compared to Sandusky's victims, but it's a real problem that needs to be considered when it comes to putting Penn State's head on the guillotine. >>
I dont believe any level headed person would ever hold this tragedy against a player or scholar, its pretty evident who the blame should be directed at and that is Paterno, his staff and the administration.
No way a company is going to make job applicant exempt because they went to Penn State, nor will a pro team not draft an athlete because of this. >>
So you're saying the NCAA shouldn't block the football program from participating in bowl games, or take away scholarships? >>
What Im saying is kids that attend Penn State will be able to get a job and athletes that are good enough will get a look at from pro scouts.
I wouldn't have any problem with Penn State getting a 2-3 year Bowl game suspension, and think that is a good ideal. There is only one way to send a message to big companies and institutions....their pocket books. Bowl games means millions of dollars.
If I was Penn State....I would have very proactive on this. Instead they covered up for Paterno and company after they lied to the grand jury. I know of no apology from the institution over this situation. I would have instantly removed the Paterno statue (let's not pretend they did not have access to the files that showed the truth), opened the files to the public and put $5-10 million into a child abuse information campaign or the like.
Instead, Penn State waited till it was so far underwater, that it is right now, paying the victim's millions....which will likely also include a silence clause, and scrambling to answer the media backlash. This is not something you try to sweep under the carpet.
However, if it were up to me, I would do a full congress investigation and bring half the administration and their staff into congress for questioning. There were like 30 witnesses to various events, I imagine it is unlikely that only Paterno, and the two upper admins where part of the coverup. As all three lied to every question to the grand jury....we don't who was involved.
If guilt was found, I would charge all with federal charges, to the fullest extent, rather then the lesser state penalties. From the President...to the secretaries. If you were involved in covering up ongoing child abuse for 14 years...you should be in jail. I would also deny the college of any federal funding for at least 2 years. Basically, I would send a clear message, that the institutions actions towards this, up to present day...are completely unacceptable.
Imagine if this was high school teacher and a principal that tried to cover up just the first incident. They would have been in jail 14 years ago.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Think about what past players (even at your beloved Ohio St) have gotten away with, and they have still been drafted. >>
Speaking of my "beloved" Ohio State, I can't wait to see what the difference in sanctions are between selling jerseys for tattoos, and raping kids.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-milewski/we-are-penn-state_b_1671744.html
I will note, I feel sorry for those that supported Paterno....in that I am sure they feel they were let down in a great way. I will also note I was sexually abused as a child and therefore likely have less tolerance then most. At least, despite Penn State's great effort, we are starting to learn the truth. I also hope none of the internet rumors are true.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.