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Explaining the Cult of Joe Pa

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  • bigdcardsbigdcards Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Think about what past players (even at your beloved Ohio St) have gotten away with, and they have still been drafted. >>



    Speaking of my "beloved" Ohio State, I can't wait to see what the difference in sanctions are between selling jerseys for tattoos, and raping kids. >>



    Which of those actions do you feel gives a greater competitive advantage in sports?
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  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Think about what past players (even at your beloved Ohio St) have gotten away with, and they have still been drafted. >>



    Speaking of my "beloved" Ohio State, I can't wait to see what the difference in sanctions are between selling jerseys for tattoos, and raping kids. >>



    Which of those actions do you feel gives a greater competitive advantage in sports? >>



    Neither.
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    I don't see Ohio State problems as an Ohio State problem, but more so a problem in all colleges, that relate to the players receiving no pay. Give the players a salary, like $7-10,000 a year, pennies out of the millions, and then if it still goes on, throw the book at them.

    Take for example Reggie Bush, who got in trouble for having an alumni rent his tux for the heisman.....really? ( I know Bush was guilty of more...but that is what they centered on.)
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  • Paterno family denies report.

    RIP Joe Pa.
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭
    I think Penn State should pay where it hurts ... in their bank account. I am not sure what the NCAA is allowed to do, but here is what I would do.

    Allow Penn State to participate to the fullest extent this coming football season. After that they are banned from playing ANY GAMES at all for the next five seasons.

    I would want this to have as little effect on the current kids that are in program ... unfortunately they will have to be a little inconvenienced.

    This will allow the Seniors to finish out their playing days at Penn State and hopefully it will not effect the chances of the NFL prospects. I would also allow all other players, Freshman thru Juniors, to actively look for another team to play for and to obtain any scholarship they can. They would be allowed to go to their new school next year and NOT have to sit out a year. This will allow them to continue their football playing days with as little interference as possible.

    As far as the victims are concerned ... that's another ballgame. Penn State should voluntarily pay each of the victims that testified $5,000.000.00, have everyone sign a release and allow those victims to get on with their lives. They should also set up another fund for the others that come forward. (I know there will be people making false accusations, but evaluate each case as it comes up.)

    There are probably dozens of other things that should/could be done, but the above were the first things I thought of.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Paterno family denies report.

    RIP Joe Pa. >>



    Yeah, and OJ is still looking for the real killer.

    Add soundgard to Paterno Island.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think Penn State should pay where it hurts ... in their bank account. I am not sure what the NCAA is allowed to do, but here is what I would do.

    Allow Penn State to participate to the fullest extent this coming football season. After that they are banned from playing ANY GAMES at all for the next five seasons.

    I would want this to have as little effect on the current kids that are in program ... unfortunately they will have to be a little inconvenienced.
    . >>



    Sorry, the football program needs the death penalty for at least 3 years, this is FAR WORSE than SMU. Let the current players transfer to any other school without penalty, and even add a year of eligibilty if they want it. And take that GD statue down!!!
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭


    << <i>Sorry, the football program needs the death penalty for at least 3 years, this is FAR WORSE than SMU. Let the current players transfer to any other school without penalty, and even add a year of eligibilty if they want it. And take that GD statue down!!! >>



    Isn't my proposal for NO GAMES AT ALL FOR FIVE YEARS more strict than your proposal?
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • al032184al032184 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭
    I don't think the past, current, or future students, including football players, should have to pay for the criminal acts of Jerry Sandusky, or the incredibly poor judgement and neglect of Spanier, Schultz, Curley, or Paterno. Penn State will have to pay the victims, as they damn well should. But I don't see the reasoning for shutting down the football program.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Paterno family denies report.

    RIP Joe Pa. >>



    Yeah, and OJ is still looking for the real killer.

    Add soundgard to Paterno Island. >>



    According to a certain book, OJ's kid committed the murders. And OJ is still around to defend himself. Let the man RIP.
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>So with Penn State's reputation completely ruined... what happens to Penn State's students? Do they stay and continue to go to college there, knowing that they will receive a diploma that will make people say "ohhh, Penn State... sorry"? I see Penn State alumni who receive that reaction even now, who went there before Sandusky was even in the picture. You want to hammer the institution, but at what cost? Hundreds of thousands of students and alumni that have to pay for what happened here? Most of which had nothing to do with the football program at all?

    How about the current football players who have scholarships to play there... they're screwed out of any possibility of being drafted now. What can they do now?

    I realize all of this seems insignificant compared to Sandusky's victims, but it's a real problem that needs to be considered when it comes to putting Penn State's head on the guillotine. >>



    I dont believe any level headed person would ever hold this tragedy against a player or scholar, its pretty evident who the blame should be directed at and that is Paterno, his staff and the administration.

    No way a company is going to make job applicant exempt because they went to Penn State, nor will a pro team not draft an athlete because of this. >>



    So you're saying the NCAA shouldn't block the football program from participating in bowl games, or take away scholarships? >>



    Jeff ~ You seem to be blending two arguments. Are you concerned about the hundreds of thousands of students and alumni or the football program? Putting sanctions onto the football program for being directly responsible and an enabling 10 children to be raped *WILL NOT* impact hundreds of thousands of students and alumni.

    Or are you saying otherwise?

    edited to add:



    << <i> I will also note I was sexually abused as a child and therefore likely have less tolerance then most. >>



    I'm sincerely sorry that happened to you. Past experiences shape our perspective going forward.
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    The job hiring issue, mentioned above, is interesting. Of course no rational thinker will devalue a Penn State degree because of Sandusky. It's a very well respected university and the diploma is worth a lot. However, as one who hires people I can tell you we sift through resumes fast and small things can weigh in the sub-conscious. A person living in an area of town you don't like, went to a school you don't like, previously worked for a company that had a scandal, whatever. I am not saying this would happen enough to be a problem or even any Penn State grad would become aware of it but I bet you some Penn State grads will be looked over due to the smudge on Penn State. Again, not saying it's right but the sub-conscious is funny.
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The job hiring issue, mentioned above, is interesting. Of course no rational thinker will devalue a Penn State degree because of Sandusky. It's a very well respected university and the diploma is worth a lot. However, as one who hires people I can tell you we sift through resumes fast and small things can weigh in the sub-conscious. A person living in an area of town you don't like, went to a school you don't like, previously worked for a company that had a scandal, whatever. I am not saying this would happen enough to be a problem or even any Penn State grad would become aware of it but I bet you some Penn State grads will be looked over due to the smudge on Penn State. Again, not saying it's right but the sub-conscious is funny. >>



    You bring up a good point. Could happen but I would think/hope it would only apply to those who previously had a Penn St "grudge". More of re-affirmation rather than a potential deal killer. However, if it did affect an unbiased sub-concious, probably looking at a small window, IMO.
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not saying I support one way or another at this point, but has anyone here actually read the Freeh report? While on the beach today I read the first 80 pages or so and I plan on finishing reading it. Or has everyone here gotten their information from ESPN and other news sources that are jokes?
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  • al032184al032184 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭
    I'm about 100 pages in on the report.
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm about 100 pages in on the report. >>



    Up to Exhibit 2F, (pg 178) - I waffle back and forth between several emotions, but this organization just didn't "get" what doing the right thing required. They are VERY good as bureau-speak though.
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  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think a law degree from SMU was devalued because the football team was suspended. >>



    Not at all, it was already devalued because SMU sucks.

    image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    I didnt read all the trustees by laws and skimmed a couple other like barely relate able sections.

    I imagine the Paterno loyalists will claim forever that there is no super strong evidence against Paterno, although there is one undeniable thing, that is Paterno knew about the incidents, and was key in stopping police action at least once.

    One can also see a lack of paperwork provided through information requests with the Paterno lawyers. It appears the lawyers may have only provided the papers on Sandusky's retirement.

    Paterno had the lesser role, one could argue, of the four repeatedly named in the report. But I have to wonder how different that would appear it the investigator had equal access to Paterno's e-mails/files.

    I also thought the censor of a trustee name, who was notified a few times, (although apparently lied to), was not right. The trustees failed in their job, and lack of knowledge does not excuse oneself of. I am on the fence on if any or all of the trustees should step down. While slow at the start, their action, apparent willingness to provide information to the investigator, and press conferences this week (all posted on the university information site), I am leaning on giving them time to work out noted problems in the university infrastructure.

    In a positive towards Paterno, I think the report shows that Sandusky's retirement was not related to the incident not long before it. I did find it strange that several parties put much time and thought into this, and no where does the previous case appear to be mentioned. Paterno has made 50? little handwritten notes, comments or the like on this. His brainstorming scribbles, followups, appear longer then Sandusky's request. I can not explain why no other college sought out Sandusky. He might be the most successful assistant coach in the history of college sports to be completely ignored for future jobs? But perhaps his charity involvement is to blame here?

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  • mcadamsmcadams Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The job hiring issue, mentioned above, is interesting. Of course no rational thinker will devalue a Penn State degree because of Sandusky. It's a very well respected university and the diploma is worth a lot. However, as one who hires people I can tell you we sift through resumes fast and small things can weigh in the sub-conscious. A person living in an area of town you don't like, went to a school you don't like, previously worked for a company that had a scandal, whatever. I am not saying this would happen enough to be a problem or even any Penn State grad would become aware of it but I bet you some Penn State grads will be looked over due to the smudge on Penn State. Again, not saying it's right but the sub-conscious is funny. >>



    Well said......but i don't think this is the sub-conscious you're describing. I've been a part of many many recruiting programs where we fly into graduate school, do a presentation and a meet and greet with several hundred students. One week later, we have 75 resumes to sift through for 3 jobs. In a process where you're trying to narrow 75 resumes down to 10 to actually interview....I can assure you that you're LOOKING for reasons to eliminate folks. And all the things you mentioned above factor in. We start with logic....toss out low GPAs...toss out resumes with poor grammar....toss out resumes for kids who said dumb stuff at the meet and greet. After all the "logical" cuts are made, you're still left with way way too many. At that point...it becomes easy for non-sensical things to factor in. "Penn State undergrad / Penn State scandal" linkage may, unfortunately, be one of those things.
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  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paterno's dead so it seems to me he's already paid the ultimate price for his involvement in all this. Thus, continuing to literally beat a dead horse is pointless.
    Sandusky will die in prison. Not my idea of the perfect end for him to be sure, but the next best thing.
    As to the rest of it-kill football there for a good 3-5 seasons, and offer all current players the opportunity to transfer without conditions or penalties; in fact give them scholarship money for their school of choice as a form of restitution for screwing up their lives as well.
    Add in a clean sweep of the remaining "co-conspirators", sanctions to the university, hefty restitution for all Sandusky victims and call it a day.
    And let the kids get back to what they went there for...an education.


    Edit to add: The reason you kill the football program for a time is because it's their cash cow. It's called punitive damages.

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  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭
    Interesting Story on CNN about the Paterno statue:

    (CNN) -- Over the past couple of days, I've listened with mounting frustration as people debate whether Penn State University should remove from its campus the 900-pound bronze statue of Joe Paterno, its once-legendary football coach. It's as if, to the folks who demand action, taking away a metal JoePa would serve as another blow to the real JoePa; one last spear in the heart of the fallen hero who apparently looked elsewhere as Jerry Sandusky, his longtime assistant coach and friend, molested one child after another.

    Sadly, it just doesn't work that way.

    As much as I have come to abhor Joe Paterno's indifference and arrogance and self-serving loyalty (to himself and his image and his stupid little football program), I fail to see how digging out a statue does anything but conflict with (what should be) one of the most important elements of higher education: Open and honest and intelligent dialogue. Were I in command of this decision, not only would I make certain the statue stays, I'd surround it with flood lights and fireworks and hire Flavor Flav to hype its very presence. "Come one, come all! Camp out! Bring classmates! Observe the bronze Joe Paterno! Debate away!"

    Truth be told, the last thing we (and Penn State) should be doing right now is trying to hide and forget what happened. Bronze Joe Paterno needs to remain, because we need to talk about this. We need to discuss ways to stop child abuse. We need to discuss the courage it takes to step forward, especially when it's significantly easier to remain silent. We need to discuss the goals of college.

    Mostly, we need to discuss statues themselves -- and what they reflect. The reason Jerry Sandusky was able to perpetrate his evil is because at Penn State (as at hundreds of other Division I schools across America) sports have exceeded academics in importance. The athletic programs are responsible for large dollars; for large enrollments; for national attention; for eternal glory. They are not to be stopped or interfered with or questioned.

    Joe Paterno has a statue for the same reason Auburn University built one for former quarterback Cam Newton (a non-graduate who attended the school for one year) -- because football (literally, the launching of a synthetic oval contraption through the air) exceeds all else. Why, in 2007, five Penn State scientists (Richard Alley, William Easterling, Klaus Keller, Michael Mann, Anne Thompson) shared the Nobel Peace Prize for their work on climate change issues. None of them have statues (rest assured, had any committed Sandusky-like acts, they would have been turned over to the authorities in minutes). None of them will have statues. Ever.

    That's pathetic.

    Bronze Joe Paterno needs to stay because, deep within his metallic eyeballs, there is a story to be told. Years and years from now, when most of us are gone and this scandal is merely a blip in history, he will hopefully serve as the essential reminder that, once upon a time, we deified people for their ability to win ultimately meaningless and trivial games.

    And we paid a dear price for doing so.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Let's see, who's left on Paterno Island:

    Jay Paterno
    Matt Millen
    Franco Harris
    Ziggy29 image

    Hell, even Phil Knight left the island -- he took Paterno's name off the Nike day care center. >>



    SteveK >>



    They can now move the statue to Paterno Island. Franco for sure is the Governor. MJ
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