ALTs

DonWillis · June 30, 2012 3:45AM

Recent threads have brought the ALTs out in force. PCGS hasn't got the time to monitor every single poster and thread and we need your help.

If you know, or suspect, someone to be an ALT please PM me or another monitor.

There are some emotionally crippled people who like to brag about their ALTs on other forums. To them this is a game.

There is a reason these people are ALTs and not regular members. They are the ones who ruin these boards and jeopardize their continued existence.

Thanks for your help.

Wolf359 · June 30, 2012 3:53AM

I have one id. Never understood the need for an alt.

lcoopie · June 30, 2012 4:14AM

I for one wouldn't mind having to give you my credit card info in order to be more sure of my identity perhaps with a one time fee that is nominal.
This may help but others may resist.

BAJJERFAN · June 30, 2012 4:16AM

<< I have one id. Never understood the need for an alt. >>

That's so you can stuff that you wouldn't dare say under using your real moniker.

JamesMurray · June 30, 2012 4:36AM

I was made the admin on a USN web site at the beginning of the year , the first change made was only ISP provided email addresses are accepted , no freebie email accounts like hotmail or yahoo...theres where it's nipped in the bud.Anybody that's on the internet has an ISP proveded email by default,theres no excuse or valid reason not to use it.

jessewvu · June 30, 2012 4:36AM

How about require a credit card to verify identiy?

PerryHall · June 30, 2012 4:41AM

<< I have one id. Never understood the need for an alt. >>

Ditto.

PerryHall · June 30, 2012 4:43AM

<< How about require a credit card to verify identiy? >>

Most people have more than one credit card so this wouldn't work.

NewParadigm · June 30, 2012 4:44AM

For me, I am 1 and done. I don't need - or get, for that matter - 2 ids.

JamesMurray · June 30, 2012 4:49AM

<< 

<< How about require a credit card to verify identiy? >>

Most people have more than one credit card so this wouldn't work. >>

Also , some have no credit cards , ive never had one in my life and don't intend to at this point , theres YN's to consider who won't have one as well. Im sure i'm not the only member that does not use credit.We all have one thing though , the ISP provided email account.

tradedollarnut · June 30, 2012 4:49AM

<< 

<< How about require a credit card to verify identiy? >>

Most people have more than one credit card so this wouldn't work. >>

In more than one name?

derryb · June 30, 2012 4:54AM

Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only.

19Lyds · June 30, 2012 4:54AM

<< How about require a credit card to verify identiy? >>

Sorry. There are more efficient methods of validating accounts such as was suggested by JamesMurray BEFORE intruding on a potential posters financial status.

Wolf359 · June 30, 2012 4:59AM

<< 

<< I have one id. Never understood the need for an alt. >>

That's so you can stuff that you wouldn't dare say under using your real moniker. >>

You mean cowards. I've never been afraid of being politically incorrect, so I don't get it.

PerryHall · June 30, 2012 4:59AM

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

I am not a collectors club member but I'm a PCGS customer since I buy PCGS slabbed coins. Why do you want to eliminate me from this forum?

silverpop · June 30, 2012 4:59AM

never saw any use in making a ALT, and anyways Alts give themselfs away sometime down the road no matter how good they think they are

DHeath · June 30, 2012 5:04AM

While I respect the numerous valid reasons others might put forward regarding the need for anonymity online, I'm a firm believer that the internet is a public space. As such, public manners should be the norm. Personally, I support non-repudiation and accountability in online activities. The constitutional guaranty regarding freedom of speech does not assure that I can hide my identity while having my say. It only guarantees me the right to have my say. Some might argue that freedom of speech is not assured on a commercial site such as the PCGS forum, but that is inaccurate. Any poster can say whatever they like to PCGS or their forum peers. However, they must also own the consequences of their actions. My post is not an endorsement or repudiation of the moderation of this or any other board. It is just my own observation regarding the need to post anonymously.

LindeDad · June 30, 2012 5:06AM

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

Silver level member ship is $49.00 per year that equates to 13.42¢ per day use rate.

Edit to add you are not technically a PCGS customer by buying a PCGS slab, PCGS customers pay PCGS to slab those coins.

mozeppa · June 30, 2012 5:06AM

i have one alt....really i'm D.W.

just kidding.

JamesMurray · June 30, 2012 5:07AM

We as members can hum and haw til the sun goes down and beyond , is PCGS serious about doing something about it is the real question. I'm fairly new and the alt problem has been out of hand since before my time. We've seen guys booted over and over and it's a good bet they are still here today.

Kudbegud · June 30, 2012 5:10AM

Was the "Guess the price" thread involved at all? That was such a generous and fabulous prize I can see where some may have been tempted to make multiple guesses by creating an alternate identity.

If our host ever has another contest like this, how about limiting guesses to one per poster who has a minimum number of posts? Like 25 or 50. This would dissuade creating multiple ID's and making the first post an entry in the contest. The contest is sort of a reward to forum poster with out whom there would be no forum.

True, it would prevent lurkers from entering. Nothing wrong with lurking per say. But lurking really doesn't add anything to the forum content. You have to admit that content from forum posters is why people read the forum in the first place.

19Lyds · June 30, 2012 5:18AM

<< Was the "Guess the price" thread involved at all? That was such a generous and fabulous prize I can see where some may have been tempted to make multiple guesses by creating an alternate identity.

If our host ever has another contest like this, how about limiting guesses to one per poster who has a minimum number of posts? Like 25 or 50. This would dissuade creating multiple ID's and making the first post an entry in the contest. The contest is sort of a reward to forum poster with out whom there would be no forum.

True, it would prevent lurkers from entering. Nothing wrong with lurking per say. But lurking really doesn't add anything to the forum content. You have to admit that content from forum posters is why people read the forum in the first place. >>

There is a Test Forum where unlimited posts can occur. Obtaining 50 posts can be achieved in less than an hour.

Also, posting a simple +1 to ANY thread can boost the thread count so using "number of posts" as a qualifier will prove nothing.

Kudbegud · June 30, 2012 5:19AM

<< While I respect the numerous valid reasons others might put forward regarding the need for anonymity online, I'm a firm believer that the internet is a public space. As such, public manners should be the norm. Personally, I support non-repudiation and accountability in online activities. The constitutional guaranty regarding freedom of speech does not assure that I can hide my identity while having my say. It only guarantees me the right to have my say. Some might argue that freedom of speech is not assured on a commercial site such as the PCGS forum, but that is inaccurate. Any poster can say whatever they like to PCGS or their forum peers. However, they must also own the consequences of their actions. My post is not an endorsement or repudiation of the moderation of this or any other board. It is just my own observation regarding the need to post anonymously. >>

Very well said and all true. The only reason to create more than one ID is to manipulate something. Contest entries, trolling, spamming, defaming or deriding another member and flaming. It is a form of cheating and is unethical which has become all to common and rewarded in recent times.

Kudbegud · June 30, 2012 5:33AM

<< There is a Test Forum where unlimited posts can occur. Obtaining 50 posts can be achieved in less than an hour.

Also, posting a simple +1 to ANY thread can boost the thread count so using "number of posts" as a qualifier will prove nothing. >>

True, where there is a will there is a way. Some people will go to great length to cheat. However, like cheap locks, it would keep honest people honest. Spending an hour making post after post to reach the minimum number would certainly limit those who would go through that for every dishonest entry. 10 hours to make 10 or 15 additional entries? Probably not.

If the test thread had someone making post after post, it would be strong evidence that they were cheating at something. But cheaters aren't always the sharpest knife in the drawer. Clever maybe. Determined. Totally self absorbed. Just watch "The Dumbest Criminals" on Tru-TV if you don't believe it.

I've been a member of forums where there are minimum posts required before you can take advantage of some feature of the forum. Like a Photoshop forum that had a minimum number of posts before you could down load a posted Action or Filter or Brush. It keeps the bonuses for those who participate and not the download raiders who swoop in, never make a single post, and download every free thing members spent time and effort on for the benefit of the other members.

derryb · June 30, 2012 5:50AM

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

<< I am not a collectors club member but I'm a PCGS customer since I buy PCGS slabbed coins. Why do you want to eliminate me from this forum? >>

Not trying to eliminate you from the forum. Trying to add you to the collectors club.

As pointed out you are not a PCGS customer unless you are paying PCGS for a service or for a product. Buying PCGS graded coins makes you a TPB (third party buyer).

Spooly · June 30, 2012 5:59AM

Don,

A list of banned Ids and Alt Ids would really help the membership to help spot cheaters.

derryb · June 30, 2012 6:08AM

<< Don,

A list of banned Ids and Alt Ids would really help the membership to help spot cheaters. >>

How? Banned IDs can't post and if PCGS is aware of an ALT it gets banned. Any of these people that come back will have a new ID.

BAJJERFAN · June 30, 2012 6:14AM

<< 

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

Silver level member ship is $49.00 per year that equates to 13.42¢ per day use rate.

Edit to add you are not technically a PCGS customer by buying a PCGS slab, PCGS customers pay PCGS to slab those coins.

>>

Of course PCGS would lose substantial business if those paying for slabbing weren't reselling said coins.

BAJJERFAN · June 30, 2012 6:18AM

<< 

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

<< I am not a collectors club member but I'm a PCGS customer since I buy PCGS slabbed coins. Why do you want to eliminate me from this forum? >>

Not trying to eliminate you from the forum. Trying to add you to the collectors club.

As pointed out you are not a PCGS customer unless you are paying PCGS for a service or for a product. Buying PCGS graded coins makes you a TPB (third party buyer). >>

Wouldn't that make you a member of PCGS's seconday market? Being a second is still better than being a third.

epcjimi1 · June 30, 2012 6:27AM

Holy Moly and Good Lord.

I guess DW doesn't like Alts. He asked for help identifying Alts. That's about it.

All the rest of this thread is difficult to figure out, I must be a bonehead, I can't make heads or tails of what you guys are talking about in this thread relative to the OP.

mdwoods · June 30, 2012 6:36AM

I have no alts. I will not comment on post count cheating that may have occurred years ago.

ldhair · June 30, 2012 6:40AM

There is no easy fix but we can help PCGS control the problem.

lcoopie · June 30, 2012 6:40AM

<< Holy Moly and Good Lord.

I guess DW doesn't like Alts. He asked for help identifying Alts. That's about it.

All the rest of this thread is difficult to figure out, I must be a bonehead, I can't make heads or tails of what you guys are talking about in this thread relative to the OP. >>

the rest of the thread relates to ways to reduce the use of alts
I hope that helped

x2rider · June 30, 2012 6:45AM

But if I submit through a dealer to pcgs does that not make me a customer. I would also add that buying and selling , thereby promoting pcgs coins makes me just as equal. What about a secret handshake

epcjimi1 · June 30, 2012 6:49AM

<< 

<< Holy Moly and Good Lord.

I guess DW doesn't like Alts. He asked for help identifying Alts. That's about it.

All the rest of this thread is difficult to figure out, I must be a bonehead, I can't make heads or tails of what you guys are talking about in this thread relative to the OP. >>

the rest of the thread relates to ways to reduce the use of alts
I hope that helped >>

No, it did not help, but thanks anyway.

One more time - DW asked for help identifying Alts, not reducing the use of Alts, etc etc etc.

Just PM DW if you think an alt is out there. That's about it.

PerryHall · June 30, 2012 6:58AM

<< 

<< Limit posting rights to only those that are collectors club members. All others can view only. >>

Silver level member ship is $49.00 per year that equates to 13.42¢ per day use rate.

Edit to add you are not technically a PCGS customer by buying a PCGS slab, PCGS customers pay PCGS to slab those coins.

>>

If I buy a new Ford from a car dealership, am I not a customer of both Ford and the car dealer?

erickso1 · June 30, 2012 7:03AM

Is it really the best tactic to have a contest that is for sure going to bring in a plethora of new members to the boards, then shortly after ending said contest put a second notice to report any known or suspected alts to DW or moderator? If I was a new memeber who joined for the contest and planned on sticking around I would be crossing my fingers that I didn't sounds/talk like some previous, unknown member.

This is from the viewpoint of unintended consequences.

lcoopie · June 30, 2012 7:07AM

for the folks without a credit card,
perhaps you have a debit card which will accomplish the same thing,

for those with no debit card,
perhaps mailing a check to PCGS imprinted with your name and address would work

for those with no debit card
perhaps you can take a copy of your drivers license and white out the non pertinent areas

for those who don't drive, perhaps your library card

for those living completely off the grid
perhaps send a copy of a utility bill
or any bill
or anything to identify yourself

This will never completely eliminate alts but it will reduce them IMO

Dollar2007 · June 30, 2012 7:14AM

If this is a result of the contest and all the new accounts, PCGS should have just opened the contest to people who were forum members up until 1 day before the contest started. I am not sure if this is legal, but if it is maybe it could be done in the future. There is a requirement to have contests be no purchase necessary, so there would have to always be a free way to enter, such as mailing in a entry, but this would create a lot of extra work for a simple contest.

x2rider · June 30, 2012 7:16AM

<< for the folks without a credit card,
perhaps you have a debit card which will accomplish the same thing,

for those with no debit card,
perhaps mailing a check to PCGS imprinted with your name and address would work

for those with no debit card
perhaps you can take a copy of your drivers license and white out the non pertinent areas

for those who don't drive, perhaps your library card

for those living completely off the grid
perhaps send a copy of a utility bill
or any bill
or anything to identify yourself

This will never completely eliminate alts but it will reduce them IMO >>

Are you serious

Russ · June 30, 2012 7:41AM

Should we also report suspected CTRLs and DELs?

Russ, NCNE

epcjimi1 · June 30, 2012 7:43AM

<< Should we also report suspected CTRLs and DELs?

Russ, NCNE >>

Go for it.

braddick · June 30, 2012 7:57AM

^
I just now figured out what that means.

PerryHall · June 30, 2012 8:05AM

<< for the folks without a credit card,
perhaps you have a debit card which will accomplish the same thing,

for those with no debit card,
perhaps mailing a check to PCGS imprinted with your name and address would work

for those with no debit card
perhaps you can take a copy of your drivers license and white out the non pertinent areas

for those who don't drive, perhaps your library card

for those living completely off the grid
perhaps send a copy of a utility bill
or any bill
or anything to identify yourself

This will never completely eliminate alts but it will reduce them IMO >>

Wow!! You sure are creating a lot of work for PCGS. In any event, I doubt they want to be responsible to hold everyones personal information.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 30, 2012 8:09AM

I might have a split personality, and I've got no reason to hide it somewhere else.

braddick · June 30, 2012 8:15AM

<< 

<< Should we also report suspected CTRLs and DELs?

Russ, NCNE >>

For those of us that are not internet savy what does this mean? >>

ALT CTRL DEL are all keys on your keyboard.

(I know... I know. . . it took me a couple of beats too.)

erickso1 · June 30, 2012 8:16AM

<< Should we also report suspected CTRLs and DELs?

Russ, NCNE >>

@ = at
& = and

TorinoCobra71 · June 30, 2012 8:18AM

<< 

<< Should we also report suspected CTRLs and DELs?

Russ, NCNE >>

For those of us that are not internet savy what does this mean? >>

CTRL-ALT-DEL..............

Do you us an APPLE based product?

M · June 30, 2012 8:44AM

<< If this is a result of the contest and all the new accounts, PCGS should have just opened the contest to people who were forum members up until 1 day before the contest started. I am not sure if this is legal, but if it is maybe it could be done in the future. There is a requirement to have contests be no purchase necessary, so there would have to always be a free way to enter, such as mailing in a entry, but this would create a lot of extra work for a simple contest. >>

This - any contest that involves give aways from PCGS only open to forum members of record 1 day prior or some defined period that eliminates the rash of new members/ALTs signing up just to get a chance to win. As to identifying ALTS, personally would not have a clue.

Russ · June 30, 2012 8:47AM

I guess that was a little too geeky for some.

Russ, NCNE

Hussulo · June 30, 2012 8:51AM

"any contest that involves give aways from PCGS only open to forum members of record 1 day prior or some defined period that eliminates the rash of new members/ALTs signing up just to get a chance to win."

Cool I better get my ALT in now before the next big contest!

Just joking.

Seriously though guys lets put down the pitch forks and take a few deep breaths. I don't have an ALT, perhaps someone did make one up just to gain one more shot at guessing the prize but at the end of the day I don't think that is a HUGE crime. Not very sportsman like but not a huge deal, they still had to guess the right figure.

What bugs me is when people hide behind an ALT to try and attack someone else. They should be reported and they, plus their IP address should then be banned. Simple.

ALTs

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