Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

The Saint-Gaudens Cent (an almost coin)

2»

Comments

  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm actually not sure how these are being distributed. I ran across them on the bay (search for 'gaudens 2016') and Google indicates ModernCoinMart offers them.
  • Options
    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for sharing
  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's more information from the press release, Asset Marketing Services page and a Coin World article.

    Commissioned By: GovMint.com, a brand of Asset Marketing Services
    Authorizations: Saint-Gaudens National Historic Site and National Park Foundation
    Engraver: John Mercanti
    Mint: The Royal Mint (UK)
    Mintage limit for silver proofs: 10,000
    Mintage limit for gold proofs: 1,000

    Here's a video from MCM.

    Here's what John said:

    Originally posted by: John Mercanti
    It is an honor to have been asked to replicate this magnificent Saint-Gaudens piece, and I hope I’ve captured the genius of his design


    The gold version rendered below retails for $3,995.

    image
  • Options
    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gasp... $4k for the 1oz gold
  • Options
    TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    That gold one is cool.

    Not $4k cool, but cool.

    If you don't need a PF 70, you can get a A NGC GEM PROOF for $129
  • Options
    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great thread...interesting to note that the coins designed by St. Gaudens students are typically the most artistic and treasured coins. Sadly, art has virtually disappeared from American circulating coinage... now filled with (mostly) crass commercialism....even the National Parks coins are merely serving as an advertisement for the park.

    Thanks for resurrecting this thread...Cheers, RickO
  • Options
    Some additional information on this stuff.

    The Saint Gaudens archive is at the Dartmouth College Library.
    Believe or not, some of these sketches were done on paper napkins.
    The cent designs were to be in a dished relief.
    The one Winged Victory plaster model was done like a quick sketch.
    When I was there in 1981, I was able to see the actual sketches and some plaster models.
    I photographed them all, but all have been long misplaced.

    It was an impressive trip to hit both Dartmouth and the St. Gaudens HNS.
    All nice to see informative posts.
    Mike
  • Options
    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have thought about doing a true high-relief over-strike version of the Winged design.

    The various examples already produced are not that great, in my opinion.
    None are actually high relief. All have the arm holding an olive branch on the right side of the coin, rather than the original St Gaudens sketch which had a shield instead.

    The details on the National Parks Foundation issues pictured earlier in this thread appear to be considerably off.
  • Options
    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Options
    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ... the image (in center, below) WAS INDEED Saint Gaudens original Winged Liberty plaster sketch and I did find a reference on the web saying that was "lost" for many years -- and it was discovered when SG's home and studio was turned into a national monument site. I have no idea if that is true or not, but I will say that I had never seen the sketch before -- so it's certainly not very well publicized.


    image

    I think the original packaging for the US Mint's 2009 Ultra-High-Relief gold includes a picture of that sketch. Is that correct ?
  • Options
    renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: John Mercanti
    It is an honor to have been asked to replicate this magnificent Saint-Gaudens piece, and I hope I’ve captured the genius of his design

    Not so much. I think ASG would have done it in high relief.
  • Options
    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,337 ✭✭✭✭✭
    crypto said it all. Thank you for sharing this wealth of information.

    Jim

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Options
    AhrensdadAhrensdad Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    Great post! Thanks for taking the time
    Successful BST Transactions with: WTCG, Ikenefic, Twincam, InternetJunky, bestday, 1twobits, Geoman x4, Blackhawk, Robb, nederveit, mesquite, sinin1, CommemDude, Gerard, sebrown, Guitarwes, Commoncents05, tychojoe, adriana, SeaEagleCoins, ndgoflo, stone, vikingdude, golfer72, kameo, Scotty1418, Tdec1000, Sportsmoderator1 and many others.


    Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
  • Options
    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The modern approximation used on the National Parks Foundation (not to be confused with the National Park Service) medal is no more cool or better executed than many third-rate silver rounds. Did the US Mint make these, or did John Mercanti get paid to lend legitimacy to these pieces?
  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: messydesk
    National Parks Foundation (not to be confused with the National Park Service)


    To clear up the relationship between these organizations, here's some info on the Congressionally chartered relationship between the two, including links from the House of Representatives and National Park Service.

    United States Public Law 90-209, 90th Congress, S. 814, December 18, 1967

    - Public Law 90-209 on house.gov
    - Public Law 90-209 on nationalparks.org

    Originally posted by: United States Senate and House of Representatatives
    To establish the National Park Foundation

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That in order to encourage private gifts of real and personal property or any income therefrom or other interest therein for the benefit of, or in connection with, the National Park Service, its activities, or its services, and thereby to further the conservation of natural, scenic, historic, scientific, educational, inspirational, or recreational resources for future generations of Americans, there is hereby established a charitable and nonprofit corporation to be known as the National Park Foundation to accept and administer such gifts.


    National Park Service Planned Giving Page: https://www.nps.gov/partnershi...ned_giving_options.htm

    Originally posted by: National Park Service
    The National Parks Foundation and the National Park Trust (part of the National Parks and Conservation Association) can also serve as a negotiator and money manager on behalf of your park.


    National Park Service Research Grants Page for Grand Canyon: https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn...re/research_grants.htm

    Originally posted by: National Park Service
    In 1967 Congress established the National Park Foundation (NPF) to provide an official, nonprofit partner empowered to obtain private sector support (money and other assets) for the National Park Service. This action created a direct support link between the public and the parks. The Foundation actively seeks money from individuals, foundations and corporations, and distributes it to the parks, often through a competitive grant process.


    National Park Foundation About page: http://www.nationalparks.org/about-us

    Originally published by: National Park Foundation
    Chartered by Congress in 1967, the National Park Foundation is founded on a legacy that began more than a century ago, when private citizens from all walks of life took action to establish and protect our national parks. Today, the National Park Foundation carries on that tradition as the only national charitable nonprofit whose sole mission is to directly support the National Park Service.

  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: messydesk
    Did the US Mint make these, or did John Mercanti get paid to lend legitimacy to these pieces?

    Originally posted by: renman95
    Originally posted by: John Mercanti
    It is an honor to have been asked to replicate this magnificent Saint-Gaudens piece, and I hope I’ve captured the genius of his design

    Not so much. I think ASG would have done it in high relief.


    From Jeff Starck's Coin World article, these were struck by The Royal Mint of the UK using dies made by John Mercanti - http://www.coinworld.com/news/...20-dollar-designs.html.

    Hand sculpting of new dies was performed by John Mercanti, noted as "Retired United States Mint Chief Engraver". While John may have been selected partially because he was a former Chief Engraver, it is still his work as a sculptor and engraver.

    Originally posted by: Coin World
    A 1905 plaster sculptured by Saint-Gaudens was used to create the medals. To adapt the design for modern high relief minting, Mercanti hand sculptured new dies based on Saint-Gaudens’ original vision for his masterpiece.

    “It is an honor to have been asked to replicate this magnificent Saint-Gaudens piece, and I hope I’ve captured the genius of his design,” Mercanti said, in a press release.


    Regarding striking and relief, The Royal Mint is mentioned as using "highest relief possible at the Royal Mint" possible for this piece. I wonder if the limitation on relief was a limitation by The Royal Mint or Mercanti.

    Originally posted by: Coin World
    The Royal Mint in Wales struck the medals for GovMint.com, employing its most up-to-date laser technology to strike pieces with the highest relief possible at the Royal Mint.


    With the involvement of John Mercanti, The Royal Mint, the National Park Foundation and National Park Service (to provide the 1905 plaster), it seems like this piece could have turned out very well. Somehow, the end result doesn't seem as artistic as Saint-Gaudens would have done it himself from the photos and the videos.
  • Options
    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Zoins

    Regarding striking and relief, The Royal Mint is mentioned as using "highest relief possible at the Royal Mint" possible for this piece. I wonder if the limitation on relief was a limitation by The Royal Mint or Mercanti.


    For 4 grand a pop, if the Royal Mint was technology-limited (I doubt it), Mercanti should have found another capable mint.

  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: messydesk
    Originally posted by: Zoins
    Regarding striking and relief, The Royal Mint is mentioned as using "highest relief possible at the Royal Mint" possible for this piece. I wonder if the limitation on relief was a limitation by The Royal Mint or Mercanti.

    For 4 grand a pop, if the Royal Mint was technology-limited (I doubt it), Mercanti should have found another capable mint.


    Does anyone here know Mercanti? Could be worth asking him about this piece.
  • Options
    Ed62Ed62 Posts: 857 ✭✭
    GREAT Post !!!
    Ed

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file