Sh!t hits the fan, economy crashed, the dollar isn't worth what it is printed on...
mrpaseo
Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
Question: Is it better to have 90% solver or silver bars?
I'm looking for opinions on what you think is the best to have if/when "it" happens (I think that covers both sides of the opinion, I am not looking for a debate if/when it will happen, just what each of you would like to have on hand if/when it does).
That said, wouldn't the coins be easier to use (Smaller units)? Other wise every barter would start at one oz would it not?
Thanks,
Ray
I'm looking for opinions on what you think is the best to have if/when "it" happens (I think that covers both sides of the opinion, I am not looking for a debate if/when it will happen, just what each of you would like to have on hand if/when it does).
That said, wouldn't the coins be easier to use (Smaller units)? Other wise every barter would start at one oz would it not?
Thanks,
Ray
0
Comments
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Gold. >>
This.
Zimbabwe proved it.
So the economy crashes and you have Gold or Silver, does that mean you plan on buying food and neccesities with Gold or Silver Coins? If Gold is worth say 1800 Dollars an ounce how do you put value on it if the dollar is worthless?
<< <i>Please excuse my ignorance but I gotta ask as Im being serious here...
So the economy crashes and you have Gold or Silver, does that mean you plan on buying food and neccesities with Gold or Silver Coins? If Gold is worth say 1800 Dollars an ounce how do you put value on it if the dollar is worthless? >>
One gram for a loaf of bread could be an example.
I doubt that if the USA crash the rest of the world will do well, though gold could still be priced in foreign currency (Yuan most likely).
if you are thinking of barter, there is the "does everyone know what 90%/40% silver is??" "Do they trust the generic lump/bar/round is silver?"
Hopefully, the silver dealers won't go down with the dollar.
Don't ask me to pick gold or silver.
I think people are down on silver because silver is down.
If you'd have asked as it was in the 40's heading to the 50's people would have told you all about how the less fortunate would be buying silver instead of gold: "poor man's gold."
It's burned us all on the drop from near $50 down then up to over $40, then down and up to $37. Now it's $28. People haven't forgotten that yet. It reminds us every day.
OTOH, I think silver will regain its footing in a true dollar meltdown, pun intended.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
If the dollar devalues greatly and starts to go, other systems will be put into place over time, but we don't even know what they'll be. They'll be attempts at several systems over time. And they'll be lots of local and private systems. You'll have to be adaptable. There's worldwide implications. If its the worst case for a long duration, you'll need a lot more than dimes/quarters, silver, or gold. You'll have to be able to trade PMs for the "spendables" in those systems too. Likely loosing some in the switch.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Gold ...enough to start a life somewhere else. >>
calleocho nails it in the first reply, and many others agree, you buy your way to safety and a chance at prosperity. Standing your ground and trying to barter PMs for necessities in a TRUE SHTF scenario is a good way to get robbed and/or murdered. We assume by your post you're not talking about inflation, you're talking about the dollar going away and with it American Society as we know it, for better or worse. So, the USA falls to zero, where is it "nice"? Australia/New Zealand maybe, depends on why our country died. Not going to happen in the lifetimes of anyone reading this, or their grandchildren for that matter, IMO, so the whole discussion is academic.
Also, why does it have to be either/or 90% or .999? most of us have some of both, in addition to the other stuff in our bug out bags and camp in place supplies. If forced to choose I'd pick 90% because of the wide recognition and the ability to make change.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>If SHTF do you want to be known as the guy that pays for everything with gold or silver? >>
interesting comment
Ray
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Living in Cuba wasn't as bad people might think...things were never great but compared to similar 3rd world countries things were OK. Sure you had very limited freedoms and you sure as hell dint want to get on the wrong side of the communists but we had free housing, schools, health care and we more of less ate everyday.
Then it hit ...and it stinks. Inflation was horrible, brutal really. Governments protect themselves so corruption became even worse and measures for the good of the nation were enforced so you knew not to step out of line.
Life doesn't end but it sure gets gloomier.
energy, food and basic essentials are first to go.
Even if you manage to somehow "secure" these 3 things ...whats the point? infrastructure is falling apart, crime is up and desperation lingers in the air.
we had savings in pesos and roubles ...both were basically worthless and American dollars were illegal to own.
and this is the time you realize the value of gold ...because every person we had to bribe on our way to the USA wanted something that was valuable, easy to transport and reconized anywhere.
I love living here..but I keep a little insurance just in case.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>
<< <i>If SHTF do you want to be known as the guy that pays for everything with gold or silver? >>
interesting comment >>
Makes me think that lots of folks both good and bad and desperate at that moment in time would be very interested in finding out where you live. Yes you could have the best security system and guns and ammo but what if they kept coming and they have more powerful guns and come with lots of friends each and every time? Ok say they wait out for you on the road and ambush you while your trying to buy supplies? Not unless you have an army with you..... eventually you will fail if they have well armed numbers on their side shooting at you in all directions...oh yeah you can buy and drive an armored truck but what if they..... Just made me think...
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
You have to have what other people need and be able to protect it and provide it---
1. food
2. shelter
3. sex
that is all.
gold, silver, 90%, et al---irrelavent in a SHTF event.
However in a slowly disintegrating and constantly evolving financial mess like we have, gold that is recognizable and quantifiable. 1/2OZ & 1OZ coins.
I believe initially you'll be able to pick up a lot of cheap silver and gold. As the system stabilize then your gold and silver would take care of you if you can retain it without spending it initially. If you look at some of these occurrences you'd be better off having all your bills paid including your house.
Food, booze, and smokes wouldn't be bad. The vices always seem to do well in hard times.
This.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Please excuse my ignorance but I gotta ask as Im being serious here...
So the economy crashes and you have Gold or Silver, does that mean you plan on buying food and neccesities with Gold or Silver Coins? If Gold is worth say 1800 Dollars an ounce how do you put value on it if the dollar is worthless? >>
I too did not understand this... you actually hit two points, allow me to address.
1. The first point is what I was trying to ask about, Gold is at $1619.50 as I type this so how do you purchase a loaf of bread with a one oz coin. Gold is a little easier than silver because you can get it in 1/10 oz coins but that is still a lot to pay for a loaf of bread... so then what? one oz of Silver? Tha'ts at $28.50 right now... still a lot to pay for a loaf... but right now a 90% silver quarter is worth 5.1378 in Silver and it is widely known (Especially to the people in the USA that we are talking about using this medium of exchange). So to my it would make sense that holding some 90% is a good way to go... just my opinion though, and I am speaking of local bartering, not buying my way on a boat across an ocean.
2. Your second point is how does gold hold its worth if the dollar is worthless... The good news is, everyone likes Gold... It is not an American thing, it is a world thing. Your gold is good in any country, thus it holds its value. That said, there will probably be a roller coaster ride in the value in the first few months.
Ray
The concencus seemed to be 90%, at least at the time. I guess sentiment can change in a week around here (sarcasm)
I have 57 spam cans of 640 rounds of 7.62 x 39 and still buying along with Mags n Drum Mags (used pic from site I buy from)
and plenty of these...example..... Pic of S&W M&P 15-22
Like I said gold and silver and good but in a true SHTF situation you better have lots of lead and plenty of guns
Interestingly, jewelry such as small gold rings were better for barter than coins.
<< <i>
I have 57 spam cans of 640 rounds ... in a true SHTF situation you better have lots of lead and plenty of guns >>
Better hope nobody firebombs your arsenal, you can't carry all that away, have to hunker in your bunker
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
If your only reason for holding metals is to be prepared for the end of the world, you are wasting your money buying them. When you need them they will be of no value.
If you're holding them for a near end of the world situation, you would be better off stacking cans of spam. Metals are a store of value, not life support.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Really? Ever heard of proportional debt? Germanys entire population is the equivilant of only TX, CA & NY. Besides our government already collects taxes, Greece doesn't, and there in lies the problem, agree?
The latest threat to the eurozone is the realization that the bailouts thus far have not solve the fundamental problems. The rescue packages merely transferred enormous private liabilities unto the sovereign entities, and their debt load is far too high. Do you believe our bailouts have solved our fundamental problems?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
size of debt is not the sole thing.
size of debt compared to ability to pay it back is.
although german debt to gdp is ~95% and ours is ~72%
world debt clocks
<< <i>size of debt is not the sole thing. size of debt compared to ability to pay it back is. >>
100% correct. Current US debt (and growing) amounts to over $200,000 of debt being laid on every American family of four. That's every family to include every US citizen. Easily repaid?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>size of debt is not the sole thing. size of debt compared to ability to pay it back is. >>
100% correct. Current US debt (and growing) amounts to over $200,000 of debt being laid on every American family of four. That's every family to include every US citizen. Easily repaid? >>
Since you put it that way....
I've been thinking, the feds needs a good federal bankruptcy law that allows for selective debt restructuring and dismissal. Then, every taxpayer in the usa gets a portion of the national debt transferred to them from the government for their share of the debt, and all are allowed to file for federal bankruptcy protection.
The US doesn't go bankrupt, just the people in the US! And who said we Americans couldn't devise a way out.... innovation!
<< <i>Silver vs gold is a small part of what you need to know. The best way to understand is to read about the collapse of the monetary system in Argentina and the social chaos that followed. There are some very good detailed accounts of what happened and how they survived. In many cases the best metal to have was lead (bullets) and those who thought it was safer out in the rural areas got a big surprise.
Interestingly, jewelry such as small gold rings were better for barter than coins. >>
Interesting example/perspective!
Do you have any links to the "detailed accounts?"
Thanks!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Do you believe our bailouts have solved our fundamental problems? >>
the hope was to give hope they could solve it by allowing for growth instead of immediate cataclysm.
I guess it is more slow cataclysm? (The wars didn't help either and we have no new modernizations resulting from them other than UAVs)
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Actually Europe has more debt than the USA. They also have a declining population and no growth. >>
the debt isn't Eurozone debt, though.
They could make the bailout money eurozone debt. It'd make it easier to ask for those receiving it to help with the bills if it isn't all "german issued" debt.
OTOH, I hope Germany never agrees to any other eurozone debt. You may as well count the euro out when that happens. Germany can't pay for all the loser countries forever.
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver vs gold is a small part of what you need to know. The best way to understand is to read about the collapse of the monetary system in Argentina and the social chaos that followed. There are some very good detailed accounts of what happened and how they survived. In many cases the best metal to have was lead (bullets) and those who thought it was safer out in the rural areas got a big surprise.
Interestingly, jewelry such as small gold rings were better for barter than coins. >>
Interesting example/perspective!
Do you have any links to the "detailed accounts?"
Thanks! >>
Dave, google ' Argentina monetary collapse '. Fascinating reads on first page alone
<< <i>I've been thinking, the feds needs a good federal bankruptcy law that allows for selective debt restructuring and dismissal. Then, every taxpayer in the usa gets a portion of the national debt transferred to them from the government for their share of the debt, and all are allowed to file for federal bankruptcy protection. >>
It is not a coincidence that bankruptcy laws were tightened in 2005, and yes the US has more debt than the eurozone:
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Second, you can only do so much to prepare and you'll likely not know in advance the causes of your undoing. I figure that most people on this thread have been taking incremental steps to insure that they have every advantage in most scenarios. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone is crazy as batsh!t for doing so.
I don't expect to get shot dead on my way to pick up a pizza at night, but it certainly could happen. If that's not bad enough to already qualify as shtf, then I don't know what would be. But that's been a trend in our society for some time now. Until people are accountable for what they do, on a daily basis and in the long run - the nasty trends will continue.
Yet life continues, and my intention is to be prepared to have some good times too - as many as possible, in fact. I grew up in Baleyville. I'd like to go back, but the problem has become the fact that I grew up and have to be responsible for myself, my family and a few other folks as well. It could be alot worse - I could have nothing at all and have no reason to try.
In the meantime, gold is now reacting to the debt crisis - again, and again. If you have the means, it's a good time to keep stacking.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've been thinking, the feds needs a good federal bankruptcy law that allows for selective debt restructuring and dismissal. Then, every taxpayer in the usa gets a portion of the national debt transferred to them from the government for their share of the debt, and all are allowed to file for federal bankruptcy protection. >>
It is not a coincidence that bankruptcy laws were tightened in 2005, and yes the US has more debt than the eurozone:
Total debt (public and private) in the EUrozone is about $65 trillion. $58 trillion in the USA. Dont forget, people and corporations can go bankrupt just as a country.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Total debt (public and private) in the EUrozone is about $65 trillion. $58 trillion in the USA. Dont forget, people and corporations can go bankrupt just as a country. >>
As stated twice before, soveriegn debt in the US is greater than it is in the eurozone. You can add private debt and even poodles into the discussion but it does not change the fact that the US government owes more money than all of the governments of the eurozone and the UK combined. Government debt is what drives nations to fiscal ruin, resulting in SHTF, the topic of discussion.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Sometimes, what ruins countries is Panics caused by fear, uncertainty, disinformation, and excessively distructive herd behavior lead by dogma mongers >>
Sometimes you need flush the toilet and get fresh water!
<< <i>Sometimes, what ruins countries is Panics caused by fear, uncertainty, disinformation, and excessively distructive herd behavior lead by dogma mongers >>
As demonstrated with "unwarranted" runs on the banks in Greece and Spain.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Knowledge is the enemy of fear