Anyone know what this is? - Modern Quarter Pattern?

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 4:37AM

I was looking through the large change jar that my wife accumulates for some 2012 coins, and I found this:

The coin is the size of a quarter with the standard clad metal composition. Anyone have any insight on this coin?

Sorry about the large photos. I have not been able to grasp the sizing features on photobucket.

mingot · May 12, 2012 4:39AM

pretty sure that martha washington is who is used on modern patterns...

you might just realllllly suck.

mingot · May 12, 2012 4:42AM

this it?

keyman64 · May 12, 2012 4:42AM

What the heck is that?

Unknown · May 12, 2012 4:43AM

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coindeuce · May 12, 2012 4:49AM

You have one of the 1965 Patterns listed in Judd "United States Pattern Coins" (8th ed.Whitman 2003)
as J-2115 through J-2126 for the quarter dollar size. You may want to have it analyzed for elemental composition, as the various Judd numbers correlate to composition. Assuming that you have a genuine example (which would require submitting to a major TPG such as our host for authentication), the coin should realize mid four figures in a major auction.
From an experiment by the U.S. Mint to determine suitable metals to replace the 90% silver coins, these trial strikes were created in dime, quarter and half dollar sizes.
The reverse should have a scale representation of Mount Vernon, with peripheral legend HOME OF THE WASHINGTON FAMILY surrounding. Should have a reeded edge, with the edge having the same color appearance as a cupro-nickel Washington quarter. Weight should match the specs. of a clad Washington quarter: 5.67 grams.

Unknown · May 12, 2012 4:51AM

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cmerlo1 · May 12, 2012 4:53AM

If that's real, you totally suck. Looks like a Martha Washington pattern, but I'm not sure how to authenticate.

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 4:58AM

Yes, this is exactly the coin. I do not have a scale to weigh, but I am pretty sure it is the copper-nickel clad as is issued now. You can see the color of clad comp on the edge with same ridges as quarter. The images are too large and looks to be in XF condition as it is circulated. So this coin was minted in 1965?

coindeuce · May 12, 2012 5:03AM

These trial strikes would likely have been created before the necessary production schedule for 1965. Obviously the half dollars remained part silver (40%) through 1970. They are recognized as 1965 issues, since they were intended for the initial clad coinage use of 1965.

I recall that another forum member found one of the 1965 half dollar patterns in an eBay Germany listing in 2010.

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 5:15AM

My coin does not have designers initials compared to what appears to be some below the bust on the left side. Also, if you compare the points of the branches relative to the positions of the letters on the reverse, there are some inconsistencies there. If these are patterns would that consistency exist?

keyman64 · May 12, 2012 5:18AM

Assuming it is the real deal...How something so rare circulates SO MUCH all the way down to EF or so is beyond me!

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 5:25AM

If real, it may be the 1999 die with no initials and lettering away from rim (according to us patterns.com)

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 5:29AM

Coin looks to be a copper-nickel version of the coin produced in 1999 for the SAC dollar.

Martha Washington pattern

ricko · May 12, 2012 5:33AM

That would be a great find...keep us posted... Cheers, RickO

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 6:02AM

Unknown · May 12, 2012 6:14AM

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coindeuce · May 12, 2012 6:35AM

I did overlook the possibility for it to be the 1999 J-2185. If it matches diameter of a Sacagawea dollar (26.5 mm), and has plain edge, then it must be J-2185. If it matches diameter of a Washington quarter (24.3 mm) with reeded edge, then it is the 1965 Pattern. Huge difference in value (lesser) if it is the 1999 pattern. The 1999 dies were used inside the Mint as well as outside the Mint by private contractors.

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 6:42AM

This is the great part of this site. You get instant feedback and information or links to information to help do your own research. For what it is worth, the coin does not appear to fit either. The coin has the second design with the letters away from the rim as was used in the SAC dollar patterns, but none of those design had a completely reeded edge, which my coin has. Also, the second design has a "single" chin for lack of better terminology, as does my coin. I just need to contact THE expert on this and get their opinion on this. This discussion may all be for naught, but regardless, finding this in change is rather odd.

Thanks for everyone's help on this!

edix2001 · May 12, 2012 7:36AM

Martha Washington patterns on smalldollars.com

Broadstruck · May 12, 2012 7:47AM

Cam40 · May 12, 2012 7:55AM

One struck from 1982 perhaps?

Dennis88 · May 12, 2012 8:04AM

That would definitely be the find of the year!

There's nothing that I can see that raises immediate alarm bells. The only thing that looks a little bit odd (but not out of the ordinary too much) is what seems to be little bubbles of raised metal between G and I in VIRGINIA.

Dennis

lasvegasteddy · May 12, 2012 9:21AM

you soooo suck and congrats...

i'm no official but marty should chime in...add " lQQK madmarty" to your title of thread
this one has a story n a half as how it circulated too...

jmski52 · May 12, 2012 11:45AM

Cool find. I'm pretty sure your coin is legit.

Unknown · May 12, 2012 12:51PM

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copperhunter · May 12, 2012 1:08PM

I agree that when compared to the 1965 version, yes, but compared to the 1999 version it is identical except for the issue with the reeded edge. Are we having fun yet?

Unknown · May 12, 2012 1:18PM

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fcloud · May 12, 2012 1:56PM

Nice find. It should interesting to see which it is.

WoodenJefferson · May 12, 2012 2:03PM

What's it doing on simulated leather?

A hint?

lasvegasteddy · May 12, 2012 9:07PM

as to legit or not

i'd think market would be way too restricted to make counterfeiting such patterns worth it...

there's coins to counterfeit and ones not too

a very poor choice if you asked me

so yeah...no pro here by all means...but
put me in the legit crowd

copperhunter · May 12, 2012 10:52PM

I set the coin down on my office chair and took the photos.

I agree with the point on why someone would want counterfeit this coin. I think the issue would be more as to whether or not it was made outside of the mint or not. Since the dies are the same, the coins would be legit, but just not "official"?

copperhunter · May 13, 2012 8:44PM

Oh, just looking to see if anyone else has an opinion on this topic if they missed it on Saturday, or what would be the best way to submit a coin like this for authenticity.

CaptHenway · May 13, 2012 9:41PM

I have seen a few Martha Washington pieces over the years. It looks genuine to me.
TD

astrorat · May 13, 2012 10:30PM

Very cool stuff!

notwilight · May 13, 2012 11:17PM

I would edit the OP to remove any reference to your wife's change jar or the proceeds may be going toward a kitchen remodel. --Jerry

copperhunter · May 14, 2012 1:25AM

I would edit the OP to remove any reference to your wife's change jar or the proceeds may be going toward a kitchen remodel.

I am actually cool with that (if that would come to pass), since we purchased a new home in February, and we have had to make many improvements/repairs to it, so that is where the money is going anyway in 2012.

FredWeinberg · May 14, 2012 2:45AM

It's genuine.

I just bought (and submitted
to PCGS) some Waffled Martha's...
the first such seen......

CoinRaritiesOnline · May 14, 2012 2:48AM

Holy cow! Great circulation find!

Coin World should do an article on this.

Unknown · May 14, 2012 3:21AM

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ckrakowski · May 14, 2012 3:23AM

your wife got that as change wow i love it.

kiyote · May 14, 2012 3:30AM

I agree, Copperhunter! People that flippantly say "Google is your friend" are missing the point of boards like this. Google has information. This board has *knowledge*.

Broadstruck · May 14, 2012 3:35AM

<< Holy cow! Great circulation find!

Coin World should do an article on this. >>

Even circulated it's still a $1,000.00 + score... So you best be doing something mighty special for Mrs.copperhunter!

copperhunter · May 14, 2012 3:43AM

It certainly was not what I anticipated spending Saturday doing, but it turned out to be a very educational afternoon. So, if for nothing else, as some people say, "you should try to learn or experience something new every day". Well, this made up for a few weeks of the dulldrums. I really appreciate everyone's opinions and help on identifying this particular coin. Once I figure out the best way to get it authenticated at PCGS, I will get this in for processing and let everyone know the outcome.

Oh, and yes, as much as I spend on my collection, once I started explaining this to Mrs. Copperhunter, she did not come back with the typical snide commentary. She was interested! The first thing she said when I showed her the coin, was "1759, how much is this worth?" LOL!

copperhunter · July 12, 2013 3:31AM

I know I am stuck on minor details, but just to update, I still have not been able to pinpoint the exact pattern that this coin represents:

Clad
Exact size as quarter
1999 pattern design features (versus 1965)
No Initials
Reeded Edge

dcarr · July 12, 2013 4:20AM

Genuine, AU53.

LanceNewmanOCC · July 12, 2013 5:01AM

.
May 12, 2012 3:37 PM - thread started

July 12, 2013 3:20 PM - item still not submitted for identification/authentication

what gives?

i know it is fun doing the research but with such an esoteric item, professional assistance should be sought for authentication, then if you want it raw, crack it out.

.

19Lyds · July 12, 2013 5:03AM

<< I know I am stuck on minor details, but just to update, I still have not been able to pinpoint the exact pattern that this coin represents:

Clad
Exact size as quarter
1999 pattern design features (versus 1965)
No Initials
Reeded Edge >>

Might I suggest you send it to someone who can.

coindeuce · July 12, 2013 5:10AM

<< 

<< I know I am stuck on minor details, but just to update, I still have not been able to pinpoint the exact pattern that this coin represents:

Clad
Exact size as quarter
1999 pattern design features (versus 1965)
No Initials
Reeded Edge >>

Might I suggest you send it to someone who can. >>

+1

copperhunter · July 12, 2013 5:15AM

Please let me know who can take care of this, as this is outside my scope of my collecting habits. I was told PCGS does not authenticate/grade these (across the street might?). I would love to find out, but it just has not been a priority....Chris

stealer · July 12, 2013 5:16AM

<< Please let me know who can take care of this, as this is outside my scope of my collecting habits. I was told PCGS does not authenticate/grade these (across the street might?). I would love to find out, but it just has not been a priority....Chris >>

PCGS has a CoinFacts page about it, I would assume that they do look into these things.

Anyone know what this is? - Modern Quarter Pattern?

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