Buy the Holder, Not the Coin....WOW!

keyman64 · May 9, 2012 1:52AM

Teletrade even describes the coin as well struck.

Tell Me What's Wrong With This!

123cents · May 9, 2012 1:56AM

From photos it is not FB's.

keyman64 · May 9, 2012 1:58AM

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Not even remotely close to being FB.

braddick · May 9, 2012 1:58AM

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you?

michiganboy · May 9, 2012 1:58AM

Doesn't look full bands and I see a few hits for it to be a 66. Otherwise I don't know about the strike either but not my series.

keyman64 · May 9, 2012 2:00AM

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection.

segoja · May 9, 2012 2:03AM

Not even close based on those pics

you can't rely on TT descriptions. only their pics

braddick · May 9, 2012 2:06AM

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)?

JRocco · May 9, 2012 2:08AM

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

Of course not.

But I do have a bridge in Brooklyn.....

Bochiman · May 9, 2012 2:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

Pat...you may be missing a 3rd option...."mechanical error". I have a coin that is clearly FB, imho, and was stated as such in the online cert check. Label didn't have FB.
Which is wrong?

(note...I sent it in and it was changed...up a grade I believe, but no FB......I disagree but it isn't worth the hassle or the cost of shipping again).

JRocco · May 9, 2012 2:09AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

Could they just maybe have been wrong without the melodramatics ?

Justacommeman · May 9, 2012 2:09AM

I don't even think it's a dime. MJ

keyman64 · May 9, 2012 2:12AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

Neither and I think it is unfair for you to even pose that as a possibility. I believe them to be human and I believe they get things right more often than not...but in this particular case, I believe a big mistake was made. That's all. No reason to bash anyone.

braddick · May 9, 2012 2:12AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

Pat...you may be missing a 3rd option...."mechanical error". I have a coin that is clearly FB, imho, and was stated as such in the online cert check. Label didn't have FB.
Which is wrong?

(note...I sent it in and it was changed...up a grade I believe, but no FB......I disagree but it isn't worth the hassle or the cost of shipping again). >>

No, that's covered under my second option, incompetence.
(For the record, I don't believe it is either. This is a pricey coin and PCGS graders know what to look for. Awarding this Mercury dime FSBs if it is NOT is numismatically criminal.
The photo is weak.)

If you hear the sound of hoofbeats in the distance, think horses, not zebras.
The photo is at fault, not the experts who viewed this coin up close and personal.

Bochiman · May 9, 2012 2:16AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

Pat...you may be missing a 3rd option...."mechanical error". I have a coin that is clearly FB, imho, and was stated as such in the online cert check. Label didn't have FB.
Which is wrong?

(note...I sent it in and it was changed...up a grade I believe, but no FB......I disagree but it isn't worth the hassle or the cost of shipping again). >>

No, that's covered under my second option, incompetence.
(For the record, I don't believe it is either. This is a pricey coin and PCGS graders know what to look for. Awarding this Mercury dime FSBs if it is NOT is numismatically criminal.
The photo is weak.)

If you hear the sound of hoofbeats in the distance, think horses, not zebras.
The photo is at fault, not the experts who viewed this coin up close and personal. >>

Mechanical error may be the problem of the data entry person who may not be the grader...therefore, technically speaking, it wasn't covered by your 2nd option, as you only asked about PCGS graders

tahoe98 · May 9, 2012 2:16AM

...i wonder if it lost something while in the slab (turned?)

keyman64 · May 9, 2012 2:17AM

I haven't known Teletrade's photos to be off like this before. Everything shows in sharp enough detail for me. It is not FB.

braddick · May 9, 2012 2:26AM

How disingenuous to start a thread on PCGS's forum stating they, (your words, OP

"I believe a big mistake was made."

^Equivocation.
There are three possible scenarios at play here:

1) The photo is of a quality as not to allow an accurate opinion of the state of the coin. (Extremely likely, based on past experience with this firm and their photography techniques.)

2) The PCGS graders who viewed this coin don't know how to distinguish between a FSB Mercury dime and one that is not. (Incompetence.)

3) The PCGS graders who viewed this coin do know how to distinguish between a FSB Mercury dime and one that is not yet chose to award it the designation anyway. (Dishonest.)

I vote option one.
I am surprised there are many who vote option two.

DIMEMAN · May 9, 2012 2:31AM

Nothing wrong with the photo. This coin is NOT FB....not even close.

I would say mechinical(sp) error.

DeepCoin · May 9, 2012 2:36AM

As this is the only series I can really grade with confidence, it is clear to me that you need to have the coin in hand to make a decision. It could be the angle of the picture is such that a thin FB line is obscured or if the bands are really as flat at it seems, that someone coded the coin wrong as a FB. When you pump millions of coins through ANY system there are bound to be the occasional error. No one is perfect. If I had to vote on just a picture (my least favorite choice), I would suggest it is a mechanical error with the wrong number being input for the coin. Just MHO.

19Lyds · May 9, 2012 2:38AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Looks barely split, but again, many have seen this coin in hand and have personally inspected it- giving it the FB status.
I'll take the opinion of experts with no agenda other than to get it right, over a pixelated photo anytime.

Wouldn't you? >>

No, not when buying for my collection. >>

Fair enough.
Do you believe the PCGS graders are liars or incompetent (or, both)? >>

I believe that Mistakes Happen even with the big boys.

Remember the 1978 MS70 IKE Dollar?

The thing of it is, there are many areas where a falure can occur "after" the coin has been seen and graded by the graders. It's not like coins go directly from the finalizers hands into the encapsulation room.

Coinlearner · May 9, 2012 2:39AM

Without looking at reply's.............. NOT micro S..... NOT full bands but a pretty coin anyway

.....Edited....One right anyway.. guess is Micro S

DAM · May 9, 2012 2:43AM

Whatever the reason it's listed as FB, from the image... I'm in the "not full bands" camp.

Broadstruck · May 9, 2012 2:55AM

<< Nothing wrong with the photo. This coin is NOT FB....not even close.

I would say mechinical(sp) error. >>

OldEastside · May 9, 2012 3:02AM

Perhaps the holder should say Micro F BS

Steve

coinman23885 · May 9, 2012 3:17AM

<< 

<< From photos it is not FB's. >>

Not even remotely close to being FB. >>

I wonder if they will consider this a mechanical error like the PR 70 Eisenhower Dollar they recently disavowed and indicated that they [PCGS] would not be cover it under their guarantee.

tradedollarnut · May 9, 2012 3:43AM

<< Perhaps the holder should say Micro F BS

Steve >>

lasvegasteddy · May 9, 2012 3:46AM

sad example there to carry such a label...

mkman123 · May 10, 2012 3:19AM

Yep buy the coin not the holder people! Pcgs gets it wrong and so does ngc. Don't drink the kool aid people.

Tiny · May 10, 2012 4:24AM

Well Two out of Three Ain't Bad and I guess FB

TwoSides2aCoin · May 10, 2012 5:06AM

I trust my eyes , but everyone else needs convincing.

roadrunner · May 10, 2012 5:11AM

The coin is graded MS66 FB.........not MS66 FSB.

It could well meet the definition of a "full band." There's more than one definition. But if it comes down to what angle the photo is taken at or the lighting, that's
probably not a convincing "FB" coin. But seems to fall far short of a fully split and well detailed band. I certainly wouldn't want a MS66 1924-s FB looking like that.

Buy the band....not the choir.

DIMEMAN · May 10, 2012 6:10AM

They are not full or split!

No separation at all....NONE..NADA...ZILCH....NINE....ZERO!!!!

keyman64 · May 10, 2012 6:19AM

<< The coin is graded MS66 FB.........not MS66 FSB.

It could well meet the definition of a "full band." There's more than one definition. But if it comes down to what angle the photo is taken at or the lighting, that's
probably not a convincing "FB" coin. But seems to fall far short of a fully split and well detailed band. I certainly wouldn't want a MS66 1924-s FB looking like that.

Buy the band....not the choir.

>>

You might be confused. FB and FSB are used interchangeably among TPGs. PCGS does not put FSB on the holders...only FB or nothing.

braddick · May 10, 2012 6:34AM

<< They are not full or split!

No separation at all....NONE..NADA...ZILCH....NINE....ZERO!!!! >>

You simply repeating your argument doesn't make it true.

roadrunner · May 10, 2012 6:48AM

You might be confused. FB and FSB are used interchangeably among TPGs. PCGS does not put FSB on the holders...only FB or nothing.

Not confused at all. This is about a PCGS coin, not NGC. Guess you missed the subtlety in my post. Harold Kritzman publicized the original definition
decades ago as FSB: fully split and rounded bands....in other words, truly fully detailed bands. FB is full band, not necessarily fully split, or fully detailed.
Regardless of the photo angle, the center bands look nothing like the upper and lower bands. Guess it can't be the photo after all.

FS nor FSB implies FSRB. It's whatever the TPG thinks it should be. Buyers aren't compelled to agree. What they all should do is call them FSRB.
But if that was standard, many dates or very few of them would even qualify. You can't have a vibrant high end market w/o ample product.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 10, 2012 6:58AM

RR, you're a gracious man.
After consulting with a highly respected member, I've decided to post the following:

it's bushes fault.

LeeBone · May 10, 2012 7:01AM

Pics don`t always show the Full Bands as being defined.

I had this taken by Todd BluCC and as you see the Bands are showing as Not Split.

When in actuality they are Full.

Just saying...

Edited to add: No shot at Todd, I think he did a wonderful job

Just the angle of the shot.

keyman64 · May 10, 2012 7:06AM

<< You might be confused. FB and FSB are used interchangeably among TPGs. PCGS does not put FSB on the holders...only FB or nothing.

Not confused at all. This is about a PCGS coin, not NGC. Guess you missed the subtlety in my post. Harold Kritzman publicized the original definition
decades ago as FSB: fully split and rounded bands. Those were truly fully detailed bands. FB is full band, not necessarily fully split, or fully detailed.
Regardless of the photo angle, the center bands look nothing like the upper and lower bands. Guess it can't be the photo after all.

FS nor FSB implies FSRB. It's whatever the TPG thinks it should be. Buyers aren't compelled to agree. What they all should do is call them FSRB.
But if that was standard, many dates or very few of them would even qualify. You can't have a vibrant high end market w/o ample product. >>

Since this is a PCGS slab...FB for the PCGS slab means FSB, FSRB, Fully Split Super Duper Duper Round Rounded Bands or whatever else you want to call up from decades ago or make up today. FB=FSB for the purposes of a PCGS slab label.

This coin is not Full 'Anything'.

braddick · May 10, 2012 7:08AM

Ahhhh...

Please see LeeBones comments above yours.

(Vindication is sweet.)

DIMEMAN · May 10, 2012 7:15AM

LeeBone's post just proves my point. You can blow the pic up of the coin in question larger than his and guess what.....

Still no split. The bands are not split folks!! Since I'm sure PCGS graders know what FB's are I would say machanical error.

Elcontador · May 10, 2012 7:18AM

As I understand it, graders spend five or six seconds looking at a coin with the naked eye. They provide an opinion as to the grade. They're right far more often than not, but they are providing an opinion after a quick look at the coin.

If you don't like the coin, don't buy it. I have far more of a problem with non FH SLQs in FH slabs(of which I have seen many) than with this particular coin.

LeeBone · May 10, 2012 7:31AM

Here is MY pic of the 45-S Micro that I posted Todd BluCC had taken.
Totally different and the Bands can be determined as Full even without the zoom.

Again, I think it`s the angle that matters.

braddick · May 10, 2012 8:04AM

Wow. Photographic proof Dimeman is wrong yet he still won't concede.
Perhaps 'blindman' would be more apropo?

DIMEMAN · May 10, 2012 8:25AM

Explain to me Braddick, how a pic of a completely different dime that does have bands prove me wrong on the coin in this thread???

Have you actually looked at the coin in question or do you just like to hear yourself talk!

keyman64 · May 10, 2012 8:51AM

<< Ahhhh...

Please see LeeBones comments above yours.

(Vindication is sweet.) >>

No vindication is found for you in this thread that I can tell. If you view the FULL image from Todd, at its largest size, I would imagine you could tell if the coin at least has a shot at being FB. With Teletrade you are able to zoom in on the image even if it is a bit fuzzy, you can tell if the coin is even close to FB. Zoom all the way in on this coin and other Mercs that are described as FB and you will see a big difference. This one is not even close.

keyman64 · May 10, 2012 8:54AM

<< Wow. Photographic proof Dimeman is wrong yet he still won't concede.
Perhaps 'blindman' would be more apropo? >>

Is this a personal attack that is NOT ALLOWED by forum rules? It looks like it to me. Making fun of someone or calling someone names or cyber bullying is probably grounds for a good ol' fashioned banning if I have ever seen one.

Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Rule 5) If you have nothing to contribute to an OP then do not post. Snide remarks and other negative comments will result in your losing your ability to post. No more warnings.

ElmerFusterpuck · May 10, 2012 9:10AM

I go with mechanical error, that coin is not even well struck. There is enough detail in the photo to make a good judgement. Even some of the vertical bands are mushy. I'll bet if this coin was in another holder, you mostly likely get 100% "they don't know what they are doing" or "the grader was on magic mushrooms that day".

Buy the Holder, Not the Coin....WOW!

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