Gold Breaks Below $1,600. What's Next? $1,500 or $1,700? POLL
BigRick
Posts: 1,334
BigRick
Posts: 1,334
BigRick
Posts: 1,334
Comments
Almost got a kuger at lunch but they wouldn't let it go because of the price drop. Trying to buy on the drop is new to me, and I'm seeing folks hold tight to what they have.
I'm going to get rich off the rest of you losers.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>I know, but I'm not telling.
I'm going to get rich off the rest of you losers.
The name is LEE!
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I think you should trade GLD to take advantage of price spikes and then use the profit to buy physical gold on a month-to-month or quarterly basis.
<< <i>Also, a double-dip recession is not good for gold prices. >>
Not good perhaps. But how good in relation to most everything else is the question.
<< <i>The Bernanke gave Chiina a temporary fire sale on gold (consider it interest on all of those Treasuries that China continues to sit on). It's all part of keeping the master happy. It's no secret that China is hoarding the physical stuff, having imported 100 tons in April. I would not be surprised to see a gold backed Yuan when China makes its play to move the Yuan into world reserve currency status. >>
After looking hard at Chinese accounting practices of their companies and many of the "innovative" technologies of their businesses, I'm not worried they will be able to convince the major economic countries that the Yaun should be a reserve currency, much less the "master" of the west anytime soon.
I think him not having any plan for immediate stimulus killed any possiblity of a follow thru of what tried to start this week.
Hindsight will certainly show if doing nothing at this point is the right thing to do.
As a person that owns Metals, I say print baby, print. As a person who ultimately wants our economy to get much better than it is, I can see the side of digging in at this point and let things work out. Let's be honest though, not a damn thing is going to get done til next year.
<< <i>After looking hard at Chinese accounting practices of their companies and many of the "innovative" technologies of their businesses, I'm not worried they will be able to convince the major economic countries that the Yaun should be a reserve currency, much less the "master" of the west anytime soon. >>
The "approved" accounting practices of US banks to hide their insolvency is much worse, yet the dollar remains the world currency. If banks were required to show their mortgage holdings at market value, they would be out of buisness. The dollar is slowly being bypassed as other nations make new trade exchange deals that cut it out of the picture.
More money creation is a definite, probably closer to the election to give the markets a big boost and to give voters a big boost of false confidence. Zero percent interest rates (ZIRP) can never be ended and will be the ultimate driver of PMs as Jim Willie explains in his latest report:
U.S. Treasury Bonds: Black Hole Dynamics
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.
Next question.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>So you think the world would favor a gold backed Yuan over the greenback? >>
Eventually, yes. They will prefer a gold backed anything over failing fiat currencies. First nation to back its currency with gold will be the winner. China appears to be taking steps to do so. Keep in mind one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time.
Interesting precendent on the loss of faith in a reserve currency:
George Pompidou, then as prime minister under de Gaulle and later French president observed: "The international monetary system is functioning poorly because it gives advantages to the country issuing the reserve currency. Such a country can have inflation by making others pay for it."
John Connally, Treasury secretary under president Richard Nixon, had told foreign finance ministers that "the dollar was America's currency, but your problem". To solve the problem, France redeemed its dollar holdings in gold in early August 1971 by sending a French battleship to New York to take delivery of French gold from the vault of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and to bring it to the vault of the Banque de France in Paris. The French raised gold reserves and dumped dollars. Banque de France eventually increased its gold holding to 92% of its reserves.
Even Britain, the ally with a "special relationship" jumped the monetary ship. On August 11, 1971, the British ambassador in Washington received instructions from London to go to the Treasury Department to request the conversion of $3 billion into gold and to have it moved from the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox to the underground vault of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, where foreign government gold was stored. US gold reserves had dropped from 20,000 tons to 8,500 tons. Four days later, on August 15, 1971, President Nixon announced that the United States would no longer redeem dollars for gold, making it the final step in abandoning the gold standard.
It also interesting to note that while there remains much foreign sovereign gold in US Federal Reserve private vaults (about 22 percent of the world’s official monetary gold reserves), the US chooses to store the majority of its gold reserves under the care of its military at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and West Point, New York. Much of the remainder is at the Denver and Philadelphia Mints and the San Francisco Assay Office
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>So you think the world would favor a gold backed Yuan over the greenback? >>
Eventually, yes. They will prefer a gold backed anything over failing fiat currencies. First nation to back its currency with gold will be the winner. China appears to be taking steps to do so. Keep in mind one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time. >>
Really? I thought it was a World War or 2, associated with large military spending that pumped up our economy, while the rest of the world was in ruins.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So you think the world would favor a gold backed Yuan over the greenback? >>
Eventually, yes. They will prefer a gold backed anything over failing fiat currencies. First nation to back its currency with gold will be the winner. China appears to be taking steps to do so. Keep in mind one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time. >>
Really? I thought it was a World War or 2, associated with large military spending that pumped up our economy, while the rest of the world was in ruins.
one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Derryb, so if Russia or Malaysia or S.Africa (resource rich countries) were to back their currencies with gold, then those countries would be winners? >>
Winners, yes. Large enough valid currency supply to fill the shoes, questionable with the exception of Russia.
In 2008 Dominique Strauss-Kahn (IMF) suggested that the euro could do the job, but somehow since then both have been neutralized. There are currency wars raging in the background. What role these hidden battles between central banks actually play in the global economic crisis will probably never be known. Only the naive fail to realize the measures that will be taken to protect one's currency on the world stage.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
All you need to do is read the news in terms of financial pacts being signed by other countries.We know that India,russia,and a few others have agreed to use gold to buy oil from Iran.As I recall,last year Russia,China,and another country(cant remember which)agreed to stop using the us dollar to settle debts between them.China has made it clear that they want the yuan to be a reserve currency for the world,either replacing the US$,or to be in competition with it.For me owning PMs is the way to go.
<< <i>Ok so France and Gr. Britain took their gold in 1971. Which economies have performed better since, USA, France or UK? >>
Has nothing to do with national economic performance. Has everything to do with faith in a particular currency's ability to hold its value.
They converted their dollar holdings to gold because the US effectively began devaluing it currency. It's this loss of faith in the US$ by other nations that can and probably will result in it eventually loosing its world currency status. Will not happen until a better alternative presents itself. Size of a country or size of it's economy is probably irrelevent - look at the long standing respect of the Swiss franc. Since the world wide money spigots have now been turned on that better alternative will be most likely be gold backed (to show restraint) making it more attractive to outsiders. It is no secret that the PBOC seeks to take the role and their stockpiling of gold confirms their intent.
The petrodollar's use is slowly being bypassed by international traders. What do you think this indicates?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>So the simply backing of a currency with gold is more important than a strong political system, strong military, technological leadership and abundant natural resources? >>
In regards to having the currency fill the role of world currency, yes. The fact that the Swiss could easily provide such a currency proves my point.
Do not confuse a great currency with a great nation. One does not guarantee the other. The Roman empire comes to mind.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Ok so France and Gr. Britain took their gold in 1971. Which economies have performed better since, USA, France or UK? >>
Has nothing to do with national economic performance. Has everything to do with faith in a particular currency's ability to hold its value.
They converted their dollar holdings to gold because the US effectively began devaluing it currency. It's this loss of faith in the US$ by other nations that can and probably will result in it eventually loosing its world currency status. Will not happen until a better alternative presents itself. Size of a country or size it's economy is probably irrelevent - look at the longstanding respect of the Swiss franc. Since the world wide money spigots have now been turned on that better alternative will be most likely be gold backed (to show restraint) making it more attractive to outsiders. It is no secret that the PBOC seeks to take the role and their stockpiling of gold confirms their intent. >>
If the Swissy was so well respected, then why did it drop 20% during the 2008 crisis? If economic performance is meaningless, then why did G. Britain devalue their currency? I thought the gold was supposed to protect it?
I generally consider myself to be a reasonable, pragmatic and logical person, and from this viewpoint, there is no way in Hell that I would accept the currency of a socially repressive country, a country with the inability to feed its citizens, a country facing a massive demographic problem.
For Mikeyg, if China is spending their gold to buy oil, then why are they holding their dollars? In in discussion with derryb, if Iran gets all this gold, then we better be prepared for the Iranian Rial to become the worlds reserve currency? LMAO!!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>if China is spending their gold to buy oil, then why are they holding their dollars? >>
china is SLOWLY converting their dollars. Dumping them irresponsibly will only drive down the value of what they haven't yet dumped. The decision to buy Iranian oil with gold by India and China is based on avoiding US sanctions. The US shot themselves in the foot with the sanction threat - they succeeded in taking the petodollar out of one more picture.
<< <i> generally consider myself to be a reasonable, pragmatic and logical person, and from this viewpoint, there is no way in Hell that I would accept the currency of a socially repressive country, a country with the inability to feed its citizens, a country facing a massive demographic problem. >>
It doesn't matter what you think of China's currency. What matters is what other nations prefer as an international monetary unit of trade. Since they have to buy these and hold them to do business with international trading partners their preference will always be the most stable currency from a stable government (there goes Iran).
But you will accept China's electronic products and other consumer goods? This is not about patriotism, so let's leave that out of the equation and best not to let it narrow your mind. Besides, your description of China's failures could easily be applied closer to home.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>In regards to having the currency fill the role of world currency, yes. The fact that the Swiss could easily provide such a currency proves my point.
Do not confuse a great currency with a great nation. One does not guarantee the other. The Roman empire comes to mind. >>
So how exactly does Switzerland plan to protect their currency if Turkey or Poland or Italy decided to invade? Switzerland has ZERO natural resources. It cannot feed or provide energy for its citizens. Its currency may be the most overvalued on the planet. It is strong because of "faith"? As far as I know faith has never fed a baby, stopped a bullet or kept a house warm.
The US dollar is King because it does not rely on faith for backing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Who does every body owe all the $$ to?
Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.
Next question. >>
Glad I own GS stock then.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The US dollar is King because it does not rely on faith for backing. >>
The dollar is king because of the Bretton Woods agreement following the Big One and the US was calling the shots with a gold backed currency. It has been slowing losing that "king" status since devaluation began in 1971. The more that status is lost, the easier for a replacement to surface.
Do not think extreme actions have not and will not be taken to protect that status now that the protection of gold backing is gone. The first two oil producing leaders who threatened to conduct international trade without using the petrodollar met there demise as a result of invasion for "other reasons." Make no mistake, there is a wold economic war in progress as nations and central banks maneuver to protect their currencies and their economies. One method of battle is neutralization of threats. PMs are just one of the weapons, and threats, in that war.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Looks like we are at polar opposites.
I cant discuss conspiracy theories as I do not believe in them. I cannot discuss the "faith" in gold as I do not believe in it. Gold is an investible asset whose importance is "over-rated" and less important than many other assets.
The more I think about it, the more I think the US dollar may be the most undervalued of all currencies--including gold.
I find in amazing and amusing how genius always emerges in bull markets.
I wish we could give China all the gold, then we could really see how important it is.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Looks like we are at polar opposites. >>
Status normal.
Anytime two or more parties collude to violate the law you have a conspiracy. I'll stick with "it does happen," even in the realm of government and finance.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Who does every body owe all the $$ to?
Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.
Next question. >>
They buy all the countrys of the world debt?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So you think the world would favor a gold backed Yuan over the greenback? >>
Eventually, yes. They will prefer a gold backed anything over failing fiat currencies. First nation to back its currency with gold will be the winner. China appears to be taking steps to do so. Keep in mind one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time. >>
Really? I thought it was a World War or 2, associated with large military spending that pumped up our economy, while the rest of the world was in ruins.
one of the attributes that put the US$ in power was its gold backing at the time. >>
Now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the US got of the Gold standard prior to WW II.
<< <i>Now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the US got of the Gold standard prior to WW II. >>
Dollars could be redeemed for gold until Nixon closed the window in 1971
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the US got of the Gold standard prior to WW II. >>
Dollars could be redeemed for gold until Nixon closed the window in 1971 >>
Not exactly correct...only if you had a "gold certificate" and there weren't that many left around
Much worse, than Chinese accounting standards?....
You can put your trust in the Chinese and their accounting standards, I'll pass.
<< <i>The "approved" accounting practices of US banks to hide their insolvency is much worse,
Much worse, than Chinese accounting standards?....
You can put your trust in the Chinese and their accounting standards, I'll pass. >>
Not only do they prosecute fraud in China, they punish as well. How many from the TBTF banks in jail at the moment, let alone even charged?
Two executed as China fraud crackdown continues
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Now I'm totally confused. I was under the impression that the US got of the Gold standard prior to WW II. >>
Dollars could be redeemed for gold until Nixon closed the window in 1971 >>
Not exactly correct...only if you had a "gold certificate" and there weren't that many left around >>
The option to convert US dollars for gold was available to foreign governments until Nixon closed the window. In 1971 Switzerland converted $50 million of paper for gold and France converted $191 million of paper for gold. These demands for gold were due to the excess printed dollars, and the negative U.S. trade balance. To prevent further depletion of US gold holdings, Nixon closed the gold window, effectively turning the currency 100% fiat.
In terms of a world currency it is foreign governments that need to have faith in the currency if you expect them to hold the currency. A gold backed currency will be more than welcomed by international trading partners when they are required to use a third party currency.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>So you think the world would favor a gold backed Yuan over the greenback? >>
Hearts and minds do change and at times rather quicly. If their appears to be more stability or a chance to make some big bucks then change could happen rapidly.
People beleive in "hope and change" that message alone got a very unqualified person elected to the highest job in the the land about 31/2 years ago. We have sure seen change but it hasn't been for the best.
Watching the press conference today, I thought - man this guy sounds like an economics professor.
I know that qualified means having (R) behind his name (or being white) to most here, but that's what I thought during his QA period today.
The press conference just helped again to reveal the absolute ineptitude of this president and his ability to spin nothing into nothing.
He is just now realizing that there is a head wind in Europe that may effect us, that must have certainly been the professor in him to recognize that.
Just maybe he should take a look at this:
Professor study material
And this:
more professor study material
<< <i>People beleive in "hope and change" that message alone got a very unqualified person elected to the highest job in the the land about 31/2 years ago. We have sure seen change but it hasn't been for the best.
Watching the press conference today, I thought - man this guy sounds like an economics professor.
I know that qualified means having (R) behind his name (or being white) to most here, but that's what I thought during his QA period today. >>
Seriously ?
Obama called Bush unpatriotic for running up $5 Trillion in debt in 8 years.
He's run up $5 Trillion in debt in 3 1/2 years. What does that make him ?
Obama knew what he was getting himself into BEFORE he took office.
I could give a rats arse less what color he is, and using race diminishes your argument.
If Bush had signed an Executive Order such as this there would have been 24 hour non stop media coverage and riots in the street.
But Obama's minions keep most of his skeletons under wraps.
NDRP Executive Order