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Odd "Green Label" PCGS slab with a label I have never seen before

airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I know this is a darkside coin, but I think there are more slab gurus over here. I'm looking for thoughts on this slab. Here's what I can say:

1- It's the right size
2- The plastic looks to have yellowed over time
3- Nothing really seems amiss. There something going on where the two pieces of plastic meet on one edge (left edge when looking at obverse/right when looking at reverse), but the plastic doesn't appear to be broken or chipped, at least not anywhere I can touch.
4- I've never seen a label like this, especially with so odd a serial number.
5- The grade looks right for the coin, and the coin looks to be fine

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Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    i have no idea what is going on with this one but i'm for sure going to follow this thread, wow
    .

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  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,088 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting indeed. I'm sure LakeSammman or oreville will pay crazy money for it though.

    -Paul
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  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    Just out of curiosity, was PCGS grading Darkside coins at the time this slab design was in use?

    It looks like some sort of "internal" or "experimental" label - it's certainly unlike anything we saw for an American coin in a slab at the time.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • LostSislerLostSisler Posts: 521 ✭✭✭
    I'm going to guess that, from the condition of the plastic, that the label has been "sun" bleached.
    Because to Err is Human.
    I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
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  • CoinDogsCoinDogs Posts: 77
    something is not right here
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,170 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just out of curiosity, was PCGS grading Darkside coins at the time this slab design was in use? >>

    I feel like I've seen darkside coin in rattlers before.
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  • BuzzybestBuzzybest Posts: 932
    I would either call our host or David Hall Rarities,since it is a PCGS slab.
  • agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256 ✭
    Maybe it's a counterfeit slab
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe it's a counterfeit slab >>



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    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    I posted about the slab ATS, so perhaps Conder101 or Mark Feld or someone else will be able to shed some light on the label.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they have used numbers that start with G like this for coins in the PCGS grading sets and counterfeit sets. But on all of those I've seen, the labels were of a design similar to normal labels used. Never seen anything like this example.

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pretty dang wild.
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  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Way before a 'UV' protector was added to the plastic.
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  • coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    funking looking slab
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  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
    Wild!

    I like the grading set theory.
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    The "Great Feldini" posted ATS and says:


    I am, by no means, a slab expert. But my guess - bet actually - is that the holder is legitimate.

    Among other reasons, why would someone go to the trouble, yet create such an odd/suspicious looking holder? Also, while I'm not certain, I suspect that the encapsulated coin is not of particularly high value and thus there would be no reason to create a counterfeit holder for it.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Hummmmmmmmm. Interesting. I've never really seen a PCGS slab yellow that much. I've got a lot of old holders, many with serious sunbleaching (tag is almost devoid of color) and the plastic doesn't look like that. If it is PCGS...IF...then I would wager it was an experimental piece. The fact that the numbers aren't in line with any cert number I've ever seen seems to support that conclusion. The font that PCGS is written in seems about right, and the same font continues through the rest of the tag (not something that happens in any PCGS tag I've seen.)

    Could be a fake, dunno...seems like it's a legit trial slab though. It really could go either was to tell you the truth. If it was cheap I would pick it up, if for nothing else it's a great conversation piece for your coin club.
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting. I definitely would like to know the meaning of the G*** number. A local coin shop here has PCGS graded later date buffalo nickels in regular slabs but with such a number as well.

    Dennis
    VOC Numismatics
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  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd be inclined to think it was an older grading set example they had and no longer use/got rid of.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do genuine British coins of this era have a coin reverse or a medal reverse?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,923 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do genuine British coins of this era have a coin reverse or a medal reverse? >>



    The coin is what's known as "Maundy Money" Do a search for maundy money and you will find lots of info. on it.

    JJ
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting indeed. I'm sure LakeSammman or oreville will pay crazy money for it though.

    I guess we are considered pigeons..... image

    While I'm not the worlds expert, it looks fishy for at least 2 reasons, other than the label.

    1. The edge looks glued rather than sonically sealed. And, more telling is:

    2. The logo - I've never seen a period at the end of PCGS with the trademark logo at the level of the mid-portion of the "S" in PCGS. It's on the same bottom line as the PCGS logo on every generation that I own (and every slab of the same generation).

    It might take PCGS to confirm as I can't exclude some experiment along the way.

    There - now we've helped the fakers get it right the next time. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭
    List it for sale on eBay and post a link. There are good folks there (and here) who will be happy to authenticate it for you.
  • thecointraderthecointrader Posts: 480 ✭✭
    My hunch (and it's nothing more than a hunch) is that the slab is a trial by the manufacturer of the plastic -- pre-OGH -- from the very earliest days of our hosts, and the reason that the label is so generic is that PCGS had not yet begun grading at the time that this piece was made.

    Again, just a hunch.

    "Giving away an MS-65 $20 St. Gaudens to everyone logged in when I make my 10,000th post..."
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My hunch (and it's nothing more than a hunch) is that the slab is a trial by the manufacturer of the plastic -- pre-OGH -- from the very earliest days of our hosts, and the reason that the label is so generic is that PCGS had not yet begun grading at the time that this piece was made.

    Again, just a hunch. >>



    The only problem with that idea is that PCGS graded coins in the old rattler holder before this style slab. Maybe a product sample for the holder change?
  • bob48bob48 Posts: 457 ✭✭✭
    Looking over the PCGS Holder Generations that Conder101 has put out on this forum many years ago,
    The holder is from the PCGS 4 type. You can search for generations and find the old thread.
    There is a TM period at the end of PCGS on the reverse and that looks correct, an R inside a circle with some of the gold coloring comming off the reverse. According to the picture in the generations thread.
    This holder came out after the rattlers, dollie pattern, sometime in the 1990's
    It seems to me that the big question is on the obverse label. Since it is from the darkside, What is the country of origin? I would think that info would be on the label.
    I have never seen a grading set so I don't know how the seriel numbers were to go. Next time to Long beach I will be sure to look closer at the sets PCGS put on display. But it is a very interesting label/holder combo and I know for one, that I will like to know how the slab came to be.
    If you post it ATS or at Coin Community .com the expert will come out with his 101 opion for you.
    Please be sure to put in a link or complete the story as it developes ATS
    weather it is real or fake that is one I would like to find. I like the grading set theroy. Anyway it seems to fit in nicly.

    Extra Info: http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/maundy-money
    Maundy money as such started in the reign of Charles II with an undated issue of hammered coins in 1662.
    The coins were a fourpenny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny piece but it was not until 1670 that a dated set of all four coins appeared.
    Maundy money has remained in much the same form since 1670, and the coins used for the Maundy ceremony have traditionally been struck in sterling silver but for the brief interruptions of Henry Vlll’s debasement of the coinage and the general change to 50% silver coins in 1920.


    Thanks for putting it out. Bob
    Bob

    *
  • Tdec1000Tdec1000 Posts: 3,851 ✭✭✭
    Maybe HRH will add some info!
    Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!

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  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Conder101 just chimed in ATS. As far as I'm concerned, case closed. MJ

    <It is real. I have one in my collection, I acquired it after the book came out. PCGS really wasn't doing much in the way of slabbing world coins at the time and possibly they were doing some experimenting with labels. The world coins really didn't fit into their numbering system and I think they really didn't know what to do with them. This is only the third one I've seen. It is from the PCGS 4 era, 1990 to 1995. The back label nails that down.

    That's about all I know about it.>
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  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,051 ✭✭✭
    These seem to be MORE rare than the NGC BLACK SLAB.

    Let the BIDDING begin!

    imageimageimage

    image
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,408 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Conder101 just chimed in ATS. As far as I'm concerned, case closed. MJ

    <It is real. I have one in my collection, I acquired it after the book came out. PCGS really wasn't doing much in the way of slabbing world coins at the time and possibly they were doing some experimenting with labels. The world coins really didn't fit into their numbering system and I think they really didn't know what to do with them. This is only the third one I've seen. It is from the PCGS 4 era, 1990 to 1995. The back label nails that down.

    That's about all I know about it.> >>




    Oh LakePigeonMan.....I mean Lakesammman.......looks like something you 'NEED' image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • RevDrBlimberRevDrBlimber Posts: 391


    << <i>Conder101 just chimed in ATS. As far as I'm concerned, case closed. MJ

    <It is real. I have one in my collection, I acquired it after the book came out. PCGS really wasn't doing much in the way of slabbing world coins at the time and possibly they were doing some experimenting with labels. The world coins really didn't fit into their numbering system and I think they really didn't know what to do with them. This is only the third one I've seen. It is from the PCGS 4 era, 1990 to 1995. The back label nails that down.

    That's about all I know about it.> >>



    Agreed.

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  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    interesting

    I am somewhat surprised there is no GB on the slab-

    I suspect it is experimental and legit

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd like to be proven wrong, but I am still skeptical. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • TWQGTWQG Posts: 3,145 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Conder101 just chimed in ATS. As far as I'm concerned, case closed. MJ

    <It is real. I have one in my collection, I acquired it after the book came out. PCGS really wasn't doing much in the way of slabbing world coins at the time and possibly they were doing some experimenting with labels. The world coins really didn't fit into their numbering system and I think they really didn't know what to do with them. This is only the third one I've seen. It is from the PCGS 4 era, 1990 to 1995. The back label nails that down.

    That's about all I know about it.> >>




    Oh LakePigeonMan.....I mean Lakesammman.......looks like something you 'NEED' image >>



    image
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  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neat item, assuming Conder101 is correct. This is the first time I have seen one of these (and I was collecting slabs before Conder101's book). It looks like a prototype, rather than a production slab. The font and what appears to be a serial number (G729) are inconsistent with PCGS production slabs at the time. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part. I look forward to the real answer.

    Of course, I want it as well! image

    Thanks, Jeremy, for the cool post.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,242 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>These seem to be MORE rare than the NGC BLACK SLAB.

    Let the BIDDING begin!

    imageimageimage >>




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    fight!
    fight!
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  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd like to be proven wrong, but I am still skeptical. image >>



    Conder101s' word is GOSPEL when it comes to TPG slabs.

    image

    image
  • indiananationalsindiananationals Posts: 1,094
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  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have seen this type of slab before.

    certainly it has extra value but because it is a foreign coin in a rare PCGS slab it will not go for the "Scream Painting" kind of bucks.

    very similar to the Danny Kaye Israel coinage slab in the Regency holder but obviously more rare but less obvious as only the label is different.

    Airplanenut will still be quite pleased if he sells it as there will always be someone to
    pay too much money for it.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Becoming slightly less skeptical..... image That PCGS logo with a period still bothers me.......would like to see Conders and compare them.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why hasn't someone from PCGS posted to let us know about this slab? I know Don Willis is reading the coin forum because he just posted a few minutes ago to another thread.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why hasn't someone from PCGS posted to let us know about this slab? I know Don Willis is reading the coin forum because he just posted a few minutes ago to another thread. >>

    Probably because folks at PCGS are not nearly as obscenely obsessive about slab types as some of us coin geeks. image

    Or ... they may just not know off the tops of their heads.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,238 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Why hasn't someone from PCGS posted to let us know about this slab? I know Don Willis is reading the coin forum because he just posted a few minutes ago to another thread. >>

    Probably because folks at PCGS are not nearly as obscenely obsessive about slab types as some of us coin geeks. image

    Or ... they may just not know off the tops of their heads. >>



    With the counterfeit slabs coming out of China, hopefully someone on their staff is an expert on slab styles and their features. Hopefully someone from PCGS can respond to this thread on Monday when they get back to work from their weekend.


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Why hasn't someone from PCGS posted to let us know about this slab? I know Don Willis is reading the coin forum because he just posted a few minutes ago to another thread. >>

    Probably because folks at PCGS are not nearly as obscenely obsessive about slab types as some of us coin geeks. image

    Or ... they may just not know off the tops of their heads. >>



    With the counterfeit slabs coming out of China, hopefully someone on their staff is an expert on slab styles and their features. Hopefully someone from PCGS can respond to this thread on Monday when they get back to work from their weekend. >>

    I think you are right about the current or recent slabs, but the classic slabs may be different.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 4 pence denomination is the highest of the 4 denominations of a Maundy set. The coin would carry more market value if it was still with the 1, 2 and 3 pence pieces of the date. Maundy sets have been issued since 1822, and the Young Head Victoria portrait sets are by far the most popular to collect.

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will take Conder101's word as final.... he is the prime expert on slabs. Cheers, RickO
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maundy sets date back much earlier than 1822.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • bob48bob48 Posts: 457 ✭✭✭
    Maundy money as such started in the reign of Charles II with an undated issue of hammered coins in 1662.

    Is the reverse really "PGCS." or is the period really a 'R' with a washed out circle around it.
    It kind of look like the correct 'R' with a circle, to me.

    And the serial number of "G729" Could that be part of Grading Set number 729?
    Bob

    *

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