Home› U.S. Coin Forum

My grading skills need improvement I guess

NumisNumis Posts: 160 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I went through hundreds of my Franklin's to review and see if there were any potential upgrades. Picked out the 30 that either had a shot at a +, star or full point upgrade. Spent hours comparing images on Heritage and shared them with my dealer who agreed with my selections for the most part (cut it to 22). The majority of these have nice color and some are very nice rainbows. (50, 51, 54 especially) The 49s is MS66fbl and is typical spotty for this issue but the luster is still booming and mark free and my dealer actually thought it had a shot at +. All were in PCGS holders (3 rattlers) and below are the grades from NGC. Clearly I screwed up and should have kept them in their PCGS holders. 5(49s-ms66fbl, 57-ms66fbl, 58d-ms66fbl, 60-ms65 rattler, 52-ms65 rattler) didn't cross and the only upgrade was 1948 had fbl added. Expensive lesson.

LineItem Year Mint Mark Variety/Pedigree Denom. Grade Comments Comments
001 1948 50C MS 65 FBL
002 1949 50C MS 65 FBL
003 1949 S 50C SPOTTY
004 1950 50C MS 66 FBL
005 1950 D 50C MS 65 FBL
006 1951 50C MS 65 FBL
007 1952 50C SPLOTCHY
008 1952 S 50C MS 66
009 1953 50C MS 66
010 1953 50C MS 64
011 1953 S 50C MS 66
012 1953 50C MS 65 FBL
013 1954 50C MS 65 FBL
014 1954 D 50C MS 65 FBL
015 1955 50C MS 65 FBL
016 1956 50C MS 66 FBL
017 1957 50C NOT FBL
018 1958 D 50C MARKS
019 1959 D 50C MS 65 FBL
020 1961 50C MS 64 FBL
021 1961 D 50C MS 65 FBL
022 1960 50C THICK TONING

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    don't feel too bad

    you submit em today and they don't go up at all

    someone else submits em tomorrow and gets 1.5 grade increases across the board

    grading is neither art nor science, but instead, relative image
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • NumisNumis Posts: 160 ✭
    Thanks for the consoling words Lance. When I get them back from NGC my dealer is going to send them to CAC and it will be interesting to see if any of them sticker especially the coins NGC did not cross.
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    don't feel bad
    i've got lots o lessons to learn too
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • shishshish Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the following statement; it comes from ICG's grading guarantee terms and conditions. "The grading of coins is an exercise of professional judgment and opinion, which can be subjective and may change from time to time."
    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
  • CoinDogsCoinDogs Posts: 77
    It happens to everyone
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you really think a 66 would upgrade?
    LCoopie = Les
  • NumisNumis Posts: 160 ✭
    I don't now lcoopie. image
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.
    don't feel too bad

    you submit em today and they don't go up at all

    someone else submits em tomorrow and gets 1.5 grade increases across the board

    grading is neither art nor science, but instead, relative image
    . >>



    VERY well said. Just enjoy your coins, I'm sure hy have much more to offer than just someones opinion because that's just what it is, an opinion....Joe
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sometimes when a series is out of favor, as the Franklin half dollars are now, the grading services get super conservative. Somehow there seems to be a notion that if the grading is tighened up the prices will go up.

    I also noticed quite of inconsistency in the grading of Franklin half dollars when I was dealer. I never specialized in them, but when dealers offered a hoard of them at wholesale prices I'd cherry pick the best ones for the grades assigned. I never lost money on those purchases. image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry but I am speechless as to WHY anyone would cross PCGS coins to NGC.........image
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry but I am speechless as to WHY anyone would cross PCGS coins to NGC.........image >>


    Typically one expects an upgrade (or a star), either of which can increase value when sold.
    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You neglect to state what the PCGS grades were. Sorry for your expensive lesson. But, consider it tuition, which we all pay in order to learn.


  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>>Typically one expects an upgrade (or a star), either of which can increase value when sold.<<<

    I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better!
  • NumisNumis Posts: 160 ✭
    Rampage the PCGS grades were what they crossed at and the five 5 coins that didn't cross were: (49s-ms66fbl, 57-ms66fbl, 58d-ms66fbl, 60-ms65 rattler, 52-ms65 rattler)

    If I like a Franklin half I will buy it in either a PCGS or NGC holder although I do prefer PCGS. In my opinion there is no absolute that I can only have Franklin's graded in a PCGS holder. In most series I only want PCGS graded coins but in my humble opinion it's not as valid with the Frankies and in some cases they are actually tougher on full bell lines than PCGS. Clearly from my submission there is no huge disparity between the two services so I will take your NGC67* Frankie over a PCGS66 Frankie every time.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I actually treat coins in NGC holders as raw coins when buying coins for my sets.
  • OGDanOGDan Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I actually treat coins in NGC holders as raw coins when buying coins for my sets. >>


    I do the same but I realize that not everyone shares this view. I think some people try to cross P to N because they think the coins are more likely to upgrade, or star, which isn't offered by PCGS.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dan, that doesn't make sense because a PCGS66 is worth as much or more as a NGC67.

    To me if it's not in PCGS it's raw! Grade accordingly.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This game was worth playing up to late 2008. But these days it's almost always better to leave the coin as is in PCGS or older holders. The premiums that rattlers, beans, pluses, etc
    are now bringing make them as valuable than the next grade up NGC counterpart. An NGC67 "anything" to 99% of the hobby is probably worth what a PCGS 66 or 66+ is worth. I don't believe there is an exception to this rule for Franklins. The NGC registry game pales to PCGS. Hence what PCGS says usually goes. In today's market I would never resubmit anything
    PCGS to NGC even if it had an excellent upgrade potential. Because even if upgraded it will bring little more or even less than a beaned PCGS+. And if it's in a rattler, even better. The
    demand for properly graded coins is very strong. The demand for coins that are undoubtedly maxed out is quite weak.

    But don't feel bad. If you cracked out all those and resubmitted them to PCGS raw, I'd bet you'd have gotten more downgrades than upgrades.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I actually treat coins in NGC holders as raw coins when buying coins for my sets. >>

    I agree. Learning this is a hard lesson to swallow.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I actually treat coins in NGC holders as raw coins when buying coins for my sets. >>

    I agree. Learning this is a hard lesson to swallow.
    Lance. >>



    Than why not just buy raw instead of TPG service holders? image
  • BuzzybestBuzzybest Posts: 932


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I actually treat coins in NGC holders as raw coins when buying coins for my sets. >>

    I agree. Learning this is a hard lesson to swallow.
    Lance. >>



    Than why not just buy raw instead of TPG service holders? image >>



    Because that would save me too much money that I would probably spend foolishly on something else!
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry but I am speechless as to WHY anyone would cross PCGS coins to NGC.........image >>

    image
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    hoping for an upgrade is alot like playing a slot machine, you put your money in, and hope for a payout. sometimes the machine pays out, and most of the time it doesnt. if you gamble more than you can afford to lose, you may have a gambling problem.
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>>>>Typically one expects an upgrade (or a star), either of which can increase value when sold.<<<

    I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better.

    I would never cross a NGC star coin to PCGS coin at the same grade or worse.

    I'm not surprised by the submission results by the OP. Fact is NGC is as tight as PCGS at this moment. It's been like this for quite awhile.

    If you have an all PCGS or all NGC set then I would almost guarantee you you don't have the best set available.

    Don't be Conan The Barbarian.

    image

    MJ

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better. >>



    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps PCGS overgraded the coins and NGC got it right by downgrading it???

    I agree with what MJ and Wei mentioned above.
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,238 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better. >>



    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels. >>

    image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better. >>



    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels. >>

    image >>

    Finally some sense on these boards. The label collecting is reaching absurd levels. Look at the coin!!!! Both services are very inconsistent and this helps them make even more money by people resubmitting coins ad nauseam.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hope nobody got a DWI getting home last night after this wild Kool Aid Party.
    Guess the bartender loosened his 5 drink limit.


    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • chipper10chipper10 Posts: 326


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better. >>



    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels. >>

    image >>

    Finally some sense on these boards. The label collecting is reaching absurd levels. Look at the coin!!!! Both services are very inconsistent and this helps them make even more money by people resubmitting coins ad nauseam. >>



    Ditto here. There appears to be two types of collector bases emerging. Slab collectors and coin collectors. It's pretty short sighted to collect slabs primarily. Some need to lay off the koolaid for a while.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>>>>Typically one expects an upgrade (or a star), either of which can increase value when sold.<<<

    I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better.

    I would never cross a NGC star coin to PCGS coin at the same grade or worse.

    I'm not surprised by the submission results by the OP. Fact is NGC is as tight as PCGS at this moment. It's been like this for quite awhile.

    If you have an all PCGS or all NGC set then I would almost guarantee you you don't have the best set available.

    Don't be Conan The Barbarian.

    MJ >>

    image Well said!
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I would rather have a PCGS66 than a NGC67*.....actually even a PCGS65 would be better! >>



    What a pile of cr@p. I've crossed every non star NGC coin to a PCGS slab at the same grade or better. >>



    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels. >>



    imageimage
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with commemman. If someone would rather have a PCGS MS65 over an NGC 67* it proves that they are not a person that appreciates the quality of their coins. They aren't buying slabs for the coins. They're buying slabs for the labels.

    There are certainly exceptions. In the seated quarter and half dollar area I've seen enough PCGS MS64's that were equivalent or superior to NGC MS65's and even MS66's.
    In those cases I'd take the MS64 precisely because I do appreciate the quality of the coins. Finding 2 point swing coins in the 63-66 range takes some searching but it's not
    impossible. The most prominent one I owned that came to mind was an 1838-0 dime I owned years back. It really was a solid MS64 to me. It was graded MS63 by PCGS
    and then MS65 by NGC. I've never found this 2 pt swing the other way though.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...