Surprising lack of general public knowledge

tneig

I find it so interesting, that the average person knows little about PMs, spot, silver, gold, and other PMs.

Seems when I bring it up, some know a bit about gold jewerly, diamonds, and the stock markets, but finding a few to even discuss PMs with in-depth is few and far between. Most folks have heard a little something about 'silver coin' value, but could likely not pick out an silver edge if it was in their hand. Some a bit about gold, but not much about bullion, 33 coins, spot, ... just about what to get in a jewlery store (which I don't have a clue on). When I mention it, I sometimes see a glimmer in an eye, but for the most part not a lot of information or background knowledge. If I mention a proof coin or grading, they start to backup and look off to the side. If I try to discuss whether its better to buy generic gold, bars, 33, vs highly graded slabs, they start to look angry.... lol Forget about it when I mention "how much of a portfolio"....

Now I know there are a lot of people involved in coins and PMs. Though I find it so 'interesting' of the general lack of knowledge. Maybe its like a trade, say electronics, science, plumbing.. where the knowledge and expertise is just with those that have dedicated the time to be involved.

I read this on a Craigslist ad today - so you see what I mean and why few seem to understand even basic timing.., or perhaps its just someone savy but bored, with a sense of humor!....:
"I'm trying to sell some silver I paid 30x face value last May. I heard all of this stuff about the federal reserve and illuminati etc and was convinced the dollar was collapsing and I guess I'm a sucker. I was told it would be worth $100/oz by this time. I'll be happy if I can just get what I paid in. Let me know if you're interested. Better yet if you believe the fiat money the fed creates out of thin air will also inevitably lead to hyperinflation. I don't know about you, but I'm selling off my storable food, renewable energy, and precious metals to invest in stocks and mutual funds"

derryb

Keep in mind that the average person has no need or desire to learn about investments. If you want to talk about ATM fees and credit card percentages you will have no problem getting an audience.

FistFullOfDollars

You would be amazed by the blank stares I get when I talk about QE & fiat currency.

I probably do the same thing when people talk about the Kardashins & Jersey Shore.

cohodk

I find it so interesting, that the average person knows little about PMs, spot, silver, gold, and other PMs.


Perhaps we just place a greater- and maybe unfounded- importance on PMs.

secondrepublic

I don't ever discuss it with people unless the topic is on investments across the board (stocks, real estate, etc.), then I might mention it. First of all, most people aren't even interested in the plain vanilla investments like stocks and mutual funds. For them gold and silver are really esoteric, weird, maybe old fashioned. Even for those 10 or 20% of people who are interested in investing, most of them are true believers in the stock market. They look at the billionaires on Wall Street and imagine themselves making the same money. The problem is that many of those billionaires got that way by winning a lot of bets against Joe Six Pack, retail investors, and retirees. Wall Street is usually a suckers bet for the average person, yet we have been conditioned to think that's the "best way" to "save" for retirement. Most people have been conditioned by the media to fear "alternative" investments like real estate investment or, God forbid, precious metals. Everyone knows that real estate is so difficult to manage and that you'll be getting calls every night at 2:00 am to fix a broken toilet if you even go down that road. Everyone also knows that only kooks, survivalists, and others would put their money in something as useless and crazy as gold or silver.

ricko

Yep... I agree... people in general have no understanding of precious metals investments. Some 'have heard' of ETF's but think them risky. And no one wants to store hard metal.... Cheers, RickO

OPA

<< <i>Everyone also knows that only kooks, survivalists, and others would put their money in something as useless and crazy as gold or silver. >>



That's nothing new...It's been like that for centuries

konsole

Its interesting you brought this up because I was at the supermarket yesterday and I saw a guy about my age (25-30) and he was putting a pile of coins into the coinstar machine. As I was leaving I walked over to him and mentioned to him to pay attention to what the machine is spitting out because it could be silver. I told him keep an eye out for dimes and quarters dated before 1965 because there silver and a silver quarter is worth about $6. He had a few coins in his hand that he pulled out of the dispenser. Couldn't care less, didnt even want to check the few coins he had in his hand.

tnspro

Some a bit about gold, but not much about bullion, 33 coins, spot

What does "33" mean? There are some out there that are getting back into it/learning -

Jim

percyb

My very best and close friends think I'm goofy for buying ASEs....

They have no idea how much the price of silver is...or gold...but they do think oil companies are ripping them off.
When I ask them how much oil companies pay in taxes, how many jobs oil companies create, how many communities oil companies sustain,
they act like I'm from outer space.

mash

precious metals are the subject of this forum. Rest assured each of those people has expertise on something that YOU have never heard of.

nutmeg

To the average man on the street coins are just a unit of measure. Plunk down so many of these and some paper and walk out with what you want. It is a tool for buying, no different than shells, fishhooks or wampum the Native Americans used.
When the silver went away in 1965 this just intensified that mentality.
You want me to give you a bundle of my warm paper for your cold hard metal?

66Tbird

It's a sad thing.
pay for a taco with gold

RedTiger

I am not surprised. My estimate is around 100,000 coin collectors active in the country and maybe 1,000,000 folks with a decent stack of bullion (more than two ounces of gold worth in gold and/or silver, that isn't jewelry). So if my numbers are near accurate, if a person starts talking serious numismatics, the odds are tiny of finding another person. While there are lot more bullion people than coin people, if there are million of them, the odds are 1 in 300, for finding another random person that can talk about serious bullion purchases. A good many of the bullion stackers got hooked by fly-by-night operations and know next to nothing about the various choices, even though some have "invested" six figures on their trip to the cleaners.

Keep in mind that half of the U.S. population doesn't save any money in any form. Those that do save tend to have small nest eggs. This forum skews heavily towards deep pockets. The PCGS coin forum is not a reflection of the real world, and this precious metals section even less so. Women tend to stay away from bullion except in jewelry form. There is not a single active woman posting on this side of the forum and maybe 2% are females over on the coin forum. So subtract all the non-savers, and 98% of the women, and that leaves only 25% of the population that even have much of a chance to begin with: the men that save money. In this economy, male unemployment and underemployment, and education levels are slipping, so it is more like 20%. I could make it into a joke and keep going and have one guy left standing, the guy that started this thread, but readers can see the odds are poor of finding a random person that knows much about bullion, and the odds are tiny (probably less than 1 in 1000) of finding a random person that knows much about certified gold coins. Heck even at my local coin club, maybe 20% of those have any clue about certified gold coins.

It is human nature to think other people think like I do. One of my favorite phrases has become: everyone is different.

golfer72

<< <i>My very best and close friends think I'm goofy for buying ASEs....

They have no idea how much the price of silver is...or gold...but they do think oil companies are ripping them off.
When I ask them how much oil companies pay in taxes, how many jobs oil companies create, how many communities oil companies sustain,
they act like I'm from outer space. >>

The same people who complain about oil companies probably own their stock and dont even know it! How crazy is that?

secondrepublic

Look at this board; this is probably one of the best on the internet on this subject, and it has maybe 50-100 consistent contributors. Outside of people met through numismatics, I've only met two other people who have any interest in precious metals, and keep in mind that my circle of friends/acquaintances is a group that's also way above average in terms of income, etc. Obviously, many people don't post online or tell others what they've up to. But, as RedTiger said, this forum is VERY not-typical of the average American in terms of income, wealth, outlook, background, etc.

konsole

<< <i>precious metals are the subject of this forum. Rest assured each of those people has expertise on something that YOU have never heard of. >>



Yet they never seem to want to educate us on this "expertise". Plus what are the chances of their area of expertise actually being nearly as important as understanding what money is and how the fiat monetary system works?

konsole

<< <i>So if my numbers are near accurate, if a person starts talking serious numismatics, the odds are tiny of finding another person. While there are lot more bullion people than coin people, if there are million of them, the odds are 1 in 300, for finding another random person that can talk about serious bullion purchases. >>



I did a survey a while ago to find out if my assumptions were correct about collecting coins and precious metals being more popular in certain parts of the United States. Turns out the the survey did show what I assumed that the southern US had the largest concentrations of coin and pm collectors of all 4 regions, atleast the largest concentration of people on the forum. I live in North East US and I just dont see it as that popular. You'll know what I mean when you consider how densely packed the Boston area is and how few coins shops there are. So that 1 in 300 number is probably more like 1 in 100 for more southern states and 1 in 500 for northern states.

percyb

<< <i>

<< <i>My very best and close friends think I'm goofy for buying ASEs....

They have no idea how much the price of silver is...or gold...but they do think oil companies are ripping them off.
When I ask them how much oil companies pay in taxes, how many jobs oil companies create, how many communities oil companies sustain,
they act like I'm from outer space. >>

The same people who complain about oil companies probably own their stock and dont even know it! How crazy is that? >>



It's worse than that. They don't own stock in oil companies but keep their money in CDs and then complain about the rates...WTF...I want to shake them and say WAKE UP.
But then the conversation gets heated so I just don't bother telling them invest elsewhere....like ASEs.

jmski52

Some a bit about gold, but not much about bullion, 33 coins, spot

What does "33" mean? There are some out there that are getting back into it/learning -

I don't know that the number "33" holds any significance whatsoever in the context of bullion coins.

The 1933 Gold Double Eagles are rare and valuable, so they might have achieved some visibility in the past few years during the government's lawsuit with the Langsbord(sp?) family.

"Spot" is the current month's price of a precious metal on a major exchange.

TheRegulator

I'm guessing "33 coins" refers to pre-1933 gold and silver coins. In my opinion, if the gov't think they can justify confiscation of gold and silver, then they can surely justify taking pre-1933 as well.

Baley

Yeah, that's probably exactly why the government has been selling gold and silver bullion to the public since 1986.. in order to confiscate it back later. Pretty clever, huh?
But, obviously, not everyone is going to fall for such a blatant scheme

Mission16

The same could be said for ANYTHING.

pf70collector

I know no one in my life who stacks or even owns a gold or silver coin except my brother who only has a 2006 20th Anniversary Set I gave him as a gift. I did clue in my cousin about purchasing the 2007 Jefferson Proof Gold Spouse in PF and MS when it came on sale. His investment almost tripled in 5 years. Not bad for him. But that is the extent of his PM purchases since then. He would rather invest in the stock market and bonds.

derryb

<< <i>Yeah, that's probably exactly why the government has been selling gold and silver bullion to the public since 1986.. in order to confiscate it back later. Pretty clever, huh?
But, obviously, not everyone is going to fall for such a blatant scheme >>


Didn't they provide gold to the public before the last time they confiscated it? If I recall, even their paper money could be redeemed for gold.

Baley

I'm surprised you hold an asset that you believe has even a remote chance of being "confiscated" by the government in the future. The past is done, it's history, this is now, and as you have pointed out many times, everything is different about now versus how it used to be.

I predict that the government will NEVER try to confiscate YOUR precious metals (or mine). So far, I am right. You will probably let me know if it turns out i was wrong about this? we'll wait patiently...

Baley

I read this on a Craigslist ad today - so you see what I mean and why few seem to understand even basic timing.., or perhaps its just someone savy but bored, with a sense of humor!....:
"I'm trying to sell some silver I paid 30x face value last May. I heard all of this stuff about the federal reserve and illuminati etc and was convinced the dollar was collapsing and I guess I'm a sucker. I was told it would be worth $100/oz by this time. I'll be happy if I can just get what I paid in. Let me know if you're interested. Better yet if you believe the fiat money the fed creates out of thin air will also inevitably lead to hyperinflation. I don't know about you, but I'm selling off my storable food, renewable energy, and precious metals to invest in stocks and mutual funds"


that sounds like someone who believes he was sold a bill of goods, and is now holding "dead money" investments at best, and potential losers at worst.
It sounds like he wants to cash out of his silver,
and put the money to work growing, and is willing to accept the market risk of a potential stock decline in exchange for the potential gain

derryb

<< <i>I predict that the government will NEVER try to confiscate YOUR precious metals (or mine). So far, I am right. You will probably let me know if it turns out i was wrong about this? we'll wait patiently... >>


I'm in the no confiscation camp as well. They are smarter now. There is more in it for them if they heavily tax PM transactions. My prediction is a special bullion sales tax in the future.

Baley

My prediction is a special bullion sales tax in the future.

a national bullion sales tax, or a state one? and, how to enforce? many people buying and selling physical bullion already evade the existing sales taxes as well as federal income taxes on the profits
(no one on here, though, of course)

I do agree that "they" will probably attempt to enact some kind of trading or windfall tax on physical metals.

it will be problematic, but if successful, it will probably mark the end of the metals bull market.

even the rumour of such a law might pop the bubble

derryb

India’s jewelers went on their first strike in seven years on March 17 to protest a doubling of taxes on gold imports to 4% and a 1% excise duty on jewelry in the government’s budget plan for the coming year which starts in April.

roadrunner

Taxation and regulation could certainly end the eventual gold bull market (or dollar bear market). But gold will catch a bid as part of a basket of goods
as the world's next substitute trading "currency." In that role the gold price will be supported at fairly lofty levels rather than experiencing a post 1980 type crash.
I suspect that price level will be considerably higher than its current price.