About Those High Gasoline Prices…Look Again
nibanny
Posts: 2,761 ✭
ZeroHedge
There’s a lot of talk right now, for example, about rising oil prices which have created uncomfortably high gasoline prices. In gold terms, however, gasoline prices are in a deflationary spiral. The chart below shows unleaded gasoline prices in grams of gold since January 1976. Priced in grams of gold, gasoline is near an all-time low. Buffett (and others) argue strongly that investors should be in stocks… that a company like Coca Cola or productive farmland is a better long-term investment than a useless hunk of metal.He’s probably right. Except that the useless hunk of metal isn’t really an investment. It’s an anti-currency… appropriate for those who want to sit out of the market and be in cash without having to be in cash.
Interesting read, imo, and curious website linked in the article.
Charts are on the right-hand side
There’s a lot of talk right now, for example, about rising oil prices which have created uncomfortably high gasoline prices. In gold terms, however, gasoline prices are in a deflationary spiral. The chart below shows unleaded gasoline prices in grams of gold since January 1976. Priced in grams of gold, gasoline is near an all-time low. Buffett (and others) argue strongly that investors should be in stocks… that a company like Coca Cola or productive farmland is a better long-term investment than a useless hunk of metal.He’s probably right. Except that the useless hunk of metal isn’t really an investment. It’s an anti-currency… appropriate for those who want to sit out of the market and be in cash without having to be in cash.
Interesting read, imo, and curious website linked in the article.
Charts are on the right-hand side
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
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Is there any truth to these so-called prices? Or is it just another advertising media hoax?
foriegn currencies. It's certainly better to be in stocks than dollars. Is it better to be in one of the aforementioned asset classes
than others? He prefers money that works for you. Gold doesn't earn anything, but it's certainly a measure of the timeless
erotion of the US dollar.
In Chicago, regular gas is $4.09 a gallon.
In NJ I think we are in the $3.50/$3.70 range.
NY should be higher.
MM
Bernank, Geitner, Buffett, none want dollars leaving the system where they can't get their hands on them.
PM in the hand, money they can't inflate.
anywhere from Central CA to LA...even smaller towns in between.
price hasn't dropped below 3.50 since??? i can't remember.
i know CA has a different blend sometimes.
near election time, i'm sure it will drop...lol
i have heard again about releasing some from S.O.R. but nothing concrete.
in the beginning i thought it was just a refinery switch over to summer blend....i was very wrong.
<< <i>What are gasoline prices on the east coast Nibanny? In Idaho Springs, Co., just east of the first ski areas outside of Denver, regular (10% ethanol in CO) costs $307.9 per gallon. A far cry from the preposterous $5.00 per that the TV 'personalities' (sic) declaim. In parts of Denver it is just below $3.00.
Is there any truth to these so-called prices? Or is it just another advertising media hoax? >>
Remember the term "preposterous" when you're paying more than $5/gal this summer.
<< <i>Here in NYS it is $3.95 a gallon... Cheers, RickO >>
$3.83 (last thursday). ill know more tommorow when i go fill up
priced in grams of gold, isn't just about everything near an all-time low?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
-----
As Baley points put, the charts do show most commodities at or near lows in relation to gold.
<< <i>Here in the middle of nowhere Illinois, gas is $3.96. Up a .27 this week.
Bernank, Geitner, Buffett, none want dollars leaving the system where they can't get their hands on them.
PM in the hand, money they can't inflate. >>
I visited middle of nowhere Illinois last week. It went up about that much there last week too.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
except with high-tech. Priced a terabyte of computing power lately? (or however they measure it) A flat panel tv? a smartphone? they get better and cheaper.
how about certain specialty medicines? didn't used to have it AT ALL, you had the condition, you were chit out of luck. Now, what used to be cutting edge and expensive is getting produced generically and is available and affordable.
but what about low-tech?
consider a baseline fast food meal or a no-frills haircut? they've cost 5 and 10 dollars respectively my whole life, and the quality hasn't changed at all, if anything, they're better now, too.
pair of jeans, thirty bucks, shirt, twenty, as long as I can remember. Shoes, fifty bucks. Good enough used car, five grand. Any more, and you're paying to upgrade to "nicer" and then it's about Marketing
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>takes more dollars to buy the same thing
except with high-tech. Priced a terabyte of computing power lately? (or however they measure it) A flat panel tv? a smartphone? they get better and cheaper.
how about certain specialty medicines? didn't used to have it AT ALL, you had the condition, you were chit out of luck. Now, what used to be cutting edge and expensive is getting produced generically and is available and affordable.
but what about low-tech?
consider a baseline fast food meal or a no-frills haircut? they've cost 5 and 10 dollars respectively my whole life, and the quality hasn't changed at all, if anything, they're better now, too.
pair of jeans, thirty bucks, shirt, twenty, as long as I can remember. Shoes, fifty bucks. Good enough used car, five grand. Any more, and you're paying to upgrade to "nicer" and then it's about Marketing >>
From my view fast food meals have risen in price over the past 10 yrs. And over my life I'd say fast food has gone up 4X-8X in price. My early McD's meals circa 1962 came to under a buck for 4 items. Today that's easily $5. If one looks at the cheapest menu items like a McD's plain hamburg, then those have been staying at .89-.99 for years now. But they make up for those attractively cheap draw-in items by jacking up beverage prices and specialty sandwiches, salads, etc. They'll get it somewhere. Haven't the price of shakes doubled in the last 10 yrs? The burgers seemed to have gotten smaller every few years. Soon, they'll be the size of the pickles I got back in 1962. Where price is staying the same, be leery of cut corners in quality in other areas.
Haircuts? They've doubled in price over the past 20 yrs, at least for many shops. You can still find $10-$12 barber shops but there are far fewer of them than there were 20-30 yrs ago.
The hair stylist I was getting $15 haircuts for 2 yrs ago went up to $20. So I dropped out. Sampled a few $12-$13 quickie cut places but each one butchered my hair. Now I learned to cut it myself just in case. I don't do any worse a job than the quickie cut outfits.
The $5,000 decent used car is probably still a good rule. In 1983 that $5,000 rule bought me a 50,000 mile 4 yr old Chvy Malibu. Today, you probably have to settle for a 6-8 yr old car
to hit the $5,000 point for quality used full sized car. Fwiw the Cash4Clunkers bill has raised the price of quality used cars over the past 2-1/2 yrs, an unintended consequence of the bill. The equivalent to that same $5,000 car in late 2009 is probably $6,000-$7,000 today and there's more competition for it as well. Clean, lower mileage used cars are in hot demand.
If one avoids the used and new car dealers you can probably find a decent car for $1-$2K less by buying privately but of course you take some additional risks on your own. I generally buy most of my used cars from private parties. My comment was only to what is generally available from car dealers. I found it quite interesting that a clean 1998 Camaro with 115,000 miles that I traded in for a better used car in 2009 actually went up in price over the past 2 yrs....Cash4Clunker effect. If I had known C4C was going to do that I probably would have kept that car as there was nothing mechanically wrong with it. I tried my best to trade in my other clunker car for a brand new one and get the $4K rebate but I couldn't find anything but a zero options econobox for $12K to $14K. It seemed anything of medium to normal size was priced in the upper teens or higher. It was still a better option to sell my clunker to the junkyard for $200 scrap and buy a quality 25,000 mile loaded 2002 Lincoln for $9K. That's what I did. And I drove that clunker as the family backup car for 2 more years before junking it last month for $350. At least scrap prices went up.
I'm more of a shopper for $15-$20 jeans (on sale) and $15-$20 shirts. What's been clear is the quality of both items is not what it was 10-20 yrs ago. The material doesn't seem as thick
and just doesn't last as long. The stitching is not as durable or precise. Pull a dangling 1/2" shirt thread and you'll soon have 2" in your hand. Jeans are now throwaway items after 2-3 years. A number of the ones I bought in the 1980's and 1990's are still around today (they fit too). Computers don't seem to be immune to quality effects either. And while their computing powers continue to increase, the manufacturers seem to be doing it with cheaper quality parts to induce failure in half the time. Computer shops I have talked to indicate that a computer 8-10 yrs ago was designed to last 5-8 yrs. Today a normal computer life might be 3-5 yrs. I guess my point is even if consumer prices might appear to be stagnant over long periods of time or going down, it's not a given that you're getting the same quality and sized item with the same life. That plain McD's hamburg may still be 99 cents but I would bet it's far less healthy for you than the one you could have bought 10 or 20 yrs ago. How does one measure that? The beef cattle for those burgers are fattened on GMO corn, injected with the latest version of hormones and antibotics, and crammed into larger and larger feed pens. In short, those animals are probably the unhealthiest they have ever been. Constant priced 99c burgers and 99c fries come with a net price (eg The Omnivore's Dilemma )
The communities with royalty rights are getting shafted, but everybody else is happy.
<< <i>Here in the middle of nowhere Illinois, gas is $3.96. Up a .27 this week.
Bernank, Geitner, Buffett, none want dollars leaving the system where they can't get their hands on them.
PM in the hand, money they can't inflate. >>
So what causes PMs to change in price other than supply/demand? Seems to me that a lot of it is price manipulation that is beyond the control of your average PM stacker.
<< <i>takes more dollars to buy the same thing >>
except with high-tech. ( Which, btw, encompasses approx 6% of GDP )
Regular gas in rural Penna is $3.75 this morning. I'm shaving 5% off that price this first quarter by paying with Discover.
New Jersey is the bargain - especially southern NJ. Gas is around $3.60. New York (highest US gas taxes) is around $4.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Only thing keeping up with inflation is PMs :-)
<< <i>Southern Calif. regular gas is $4.25 today. Jeans? I've been buying Leivis since the 70's. They used to be $15 now ~$35-$40. The last pair i bought i swear the zipper is 1/2" shorter and it has less belt loops than the old ones. Just bought super glue yesterday the little tube is the same size but it used to have enough goop in it to do several jobs. I got one job out of it and had to go back to Home Deport to buy more. i could go on and on.
Only thing keeping up with inflation is PMs :-) >>
A better question is why do PMs keep up with inflation? I know they don't it of their own free will so who or what is manipulating the price to see that they do?
Members of this forum have been supporters/buyers of gold and silver since 2001-2004. I would imagine there are plenty of buyers in Europe and Asia as well.
Check out the central banks. While some have been sellers, their net position is now as buyers over the past 2 years. Gold rose from 2001-2010 despite the deliberate
sale of 400-500 tonnes of EU central bank gold selling each year. It has been a managed rise. For without that management it would have gone into parabolic mode long
ago. The CB goals are for steady declines in fiat value and steady rises in PMs and other tangible assets. PMs keep up with inflation because there are enough investors
world wide to notice the trend and reposition a portion of their holdings accordingly. You can fool some of the sheeple, but not the whole world. It occurs due to supply and
demand as well as healthy doses of speculation and manipulation (ie volatility). But it gets to the destination one way or the other.
Price is also effected by state and local taxes.
Gotta pay the taxman.
What would the price be without taxes?
"The tyranny of the hour"
<< <i>
A better question is why do PMs keep up with inflation? I know they don't it of their own free will so who or what is manipulating the price to see that they do? >>
Most of the recent bull market has been fueled by demand from Asia. Again, about 80% of world wide demand for physical gold is from Asia. The other countries are side-shows. When the Asian economies falter, there is a good chance that the precious metal bull will too.
Anti-gold people would argue that gold doesn't keep pace, though much of the data they tend to point to is from when gold was fixed in price by the governments. There are the old cliches about an ounce of gold buying a nice suit or a decent gun. It is hard to figure that these days, when some very nice suits can be bought for $300, while top of the line suits might go for $5000 or more. Most would say an ounce of gold can buy 2 to 4 very nice looking suits today from upper-middle-class retailers such as Nordstrom's or Macy's. Heck, go to a second hand store and a person might find a top name brand suit for $20, though the trick is finding one that fits and is in current fashion. Prices are all over the place these days for many items. Buy an ice cream cone at retail and it might be $4, while that same money might buy a big container, with enough ice cream for 12 cones. Same with soda, or beer or a lot of other items. Even something like a box of cereal might be $3 at one store, and $5 at the next, same box, same neighborhood, 60% price variation. If there is a promotion, that cereal might be $2.
As a footnote, I remember something about prices in France before their revolution, that prices for apples in the countryside were 1/100 the price in the city store. It is getting close to that, where some people don't care about prices at all, and others are looking to squeeze every penny.
<< <i>Here in Northwest Indiana: Reg is 3.98 and premium is $4.05
Price is also effected by state and local taxes.
Gotta pay the taxman.
What would the price be without taxes?
"The tyranny of the hour" >>
How does it vary from town to town? For some reason Ames is frequently 10 c a gallon higher than some little town 10 miles down the road. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't cost that much more to truck the gas up here.
I've bought Heinekens all over the world. I've been served them as cheap as a bucket of 6 for $5, or bought a six pack for $2.50.
I've also been served one for $12 plus another $8 tip, and been grateful for the opportunity, and bought 6 packs for $20, also glad to get them for that.
the difference was where and when. There is no disputing that the average prices of typical goods and services have risen due to inflation, some periods a lot, some a little
but I ain't never seen no hyperinflation, as I understand the term, not even in the late 1970's and certainly not now.
One more thing: since turning 16, I have never, not once, complained about the price of gas to fill my tank, I'm so amazed that we drive cars.
Think of it a minute: we get to use a ton of steel, and both the energy and the incredible hydrocarbons of gasoline, to move our bodies around, and we complain about it
Don't get me started on the amazing bargain that is an airline ticket
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
But I am 100% confident it will happen.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Nat gas will eventually kill the gasoline market. I just hope eventually isn't spelled e-t-e-r-n-i-t-y.
But I am 100% confident it will happen. >>
it will take big incentives to get refineries to either convert existing facilities or oil Co's to build them.
getting these two to change their product is daunting (IMHO)
it would be possible i suppose to have a "hook-up" with your own natural gas provider (if you have one) and a pump to pressurize it for your car. but with that could you trust Joe Lunchbox with this technology when he fills up his Buick?
anyway that's how i look at it right off the hip.
<< <i>I just checked the price of gas in Italy and found out that it is now approx $9 per gallon!
How much of that is for taxes?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>I just checked the price of gas in Italy and found out that it is now approx $9 per gallon!
How much of that is for taxes? >>
With 59% taxes, in Europe we are second only to the UK (60%).
We still have taxes (excises) for natural disasters (the Florence flood 1966, a couple of earthquakes and floods), wars (Bosnia 1996, Lebanon 1983, Abyssinian war in 1935...). Plus VAT, of course.
It will take American consumers to demand it. If we want it, then they will build it.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear