<< <i>Oh, now I get. You have been confronted with evidence of his guilt so now your only arguement is deflection and personal attacks. I understand completely. I love the fact that one of the biggest Brewers supporter is the one crying "This is not fair, my man is clean and ESPN, CBS, FOX, NBC, & ABC are all lying just to get ratings!" >>
Please direct me toward this supposed "evidence" of guilt. He was found not guilty.
Also, please direct me toward where I said Braun was clean. All I recall saying was that not enough of the facts surrounding the situation have been made public for me to hold an opinion. Many of the pieces of information being thrown around by the media and parroted by you have been leaks, not necessarily facts.
So now its your turn to spout off with more idiocy. Please continue to talk out of your arse on the subject.
Its beyond a matter of speculation that he tested positive, he did. A second test also came up positive. Nobody even in Braun's camp denies the positive tests, they were arguing against the chain of custody and how that could have lead to false positive tests.
Also MLB wouldn't be pursuing this so hard, especially against a well liked player unless they really felt like he was a user. If they felt the could brush it under the rug they would have.
I also think its crazy to think anyone would doctor these results like they did, I work in testing labs and to do what Braun's defense claims could have happened would require planning and cunning of a Dan Brown novel.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
I think this is going to follow Braun around for a long time. He's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law but that doesn't apply to the court of public opinion.
<< <i>Its beyond a matter of speculation that he tested positive, he did. A second test also came up positive. Nobody even in Braun's camp denies the positive tests, they were arguing against the chain of custody and how that could have lead to false positive tests.
>>
Please post a factual report of a second positive test?
But I'll take this opportunity to say that I don't believe I've ever claimed that Pujols was a juicer.
Now if Braun was found to be 5-6 years older than he says he is, then I think comparing that situation to if Pujols was busted for it would be a fruitful comparison.
<< <i>He totally got caught ... The way this collection went happens all the time ... Union hard at work again >>
If this "happens all the time" then I wonder how many other players had positive tests overturned.
Of course, the league and those associated with the program would say 0, but that's because they have to say that. If they said Braun was the 2nd major leaguer to successfully overturn a drug suspension, there would be outrage and endless inquiry - not to mention the long winded speculation - about who the first 1st to successfully overturn a drug suspension was.
Shortly after ESPN irresponsibly reported the leaked personal medical information and said that nobody had ever overturned a suspension for this, Jimmy Rollins tweeted saying that he was aware of one person who had. Also, there is a confirmed report of a minor leaguer having his positive test overturned as well.
There's nothing new under the sun. Everyone's out to protect their own interests. If baseball wants to look like their program is the strongest in sports, they'll say that none have succeeded in overturning a suspension. To that end, I don't see how they could say anything differently, since HIPAA laws restrict the public release of personal medical information.
In the end, I just don't think enough of the facts have been released to say that Braun "totally" did anything.
Regardless of my posturing about Old Man Albert and his "real age".
Test administered by UNION appointed doctor. Stored in a manner preferred by the UNION in cases like this. Arrives at testing facility untampered. Tests positive. Braun doesn't dispute that he tested positive. Tries to blame everyone but himself including the FedEx guy but still claims he was completely innocent?
Brewer fan here. Though I'd like to believe his claims of innocence, my gut tells me that he got away with something. I could be swayed if he files a lawsuit against ESPN, but if he keeps on the down low in the hopes that things blow over, that would be telling. It's easy to point to things in a orchestrated PR move, tougher in a court of law, where all the facts are laid bare. Bottom line, he came off great in the presser, but we've heard nothing since to support the rumors/allegations of incompetence or malfeasance. I haven't seen any scientific evidence that proves that keeping a urine sample in a Tupperware container for 48 hours would cause said sample to test positive for increased testosterone either. There was a rumored clean second test along with a passed lie detector test, but these rumors haven't materialized. He did mention the offer of a DNA test in the presser (not sure what this would prove) but not a word about these two things. His whole case seems to be centered on 'the collector'.
My guess is that if he did juice, the truth will come out someday because someone will probably roll over on him (a scorned 'friend' perhaps).
<< <i>Braun doesn't dispute that he tested positive. >>
Of course he doesn't dispute that. That's what all of this is about. What he has disputed is that he ever put a substance in his body that would have caused him to fail that test. His dispute is that something happened with the test.
Blowhards on a message board spouting off about how "he never disputed it" doesn't change the fact that he has disputed it since the moment his personal medical information was inappropriately reported by ESPN.
<< <i>Braun doesn't dispute that he tested positive. >>
Of course he doesn't dispute that. That's what all of this is about. What he has disputed is that he ever put a substance in his body that would have caused him to fail that test. His dispute is that something happened with the test.
Blowhards on a message board spouting off about how "he never disputed it" doesn't change the fact that he has disputed it since the moment his personal medical information was inappropriately reported by ESPN. >>
Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs.
The way I see it there are only two possible scenarios here. Either Braun took banned substances and the test results are valid or the sample somehow got contaminated following agreed to handling protocol between the Union and MLB. If it's the latter scenario, then they need to completely revamp the process by which samples are taken. I guess a notary public will need to be present to watch the cup being filled and then accompany the sample handler to the FEDEX station and then travel with the sample until it reaches the lab and then watch as the sample is being tested. Only in that way can you be truly sure that the sample has not been tampered with. Well, there is always the possibility that the notary public agent could have been bought off and contaminated the sample.
<< <i>Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs. >>
You can't have it both ways.
"He didn't dispute it."
"Of course he disputed it."
I'm beginning to think that if the lab actually came out and said they screwed up, grabbed the wrong sample and that Braun was 100% clean, that a number of the naysayers here would still think he pulled something off.
<< <i>Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs. >>
You can't have it both ways.
"He didn't dispute it."
"Of course he disputed it."
I'm beginning to think that if the lab actually came out and said they screwed up, grabbed the wrong sample and that Braun was 100% clean, that a number of the naysayers here would still think he pulled something off. >>
I actually didn't state whether he disputed it or not. I don't care what he said. I just look at things cut and dry. Either he juiced or the testing process was flawed. No other scenario unless you can suggest a scenario 'C'. If the process is flawed, then what changes need to be made? Should they allow a sample to sit in a FEDEX office for three days unattended? Should they not collect samples over the weekend since approved shipping methods are not available those days, thus giving a window for players to flush their systems?
I'm not meaning to pick on Braun but you either have a drug testing program that everyone adheres to or you scrap it and let everyone roid up like its 1998 again.
I just find it interesting that this sample collector who has been doing this for a long time, doesn't know what the hours are of the local Fed Ex locations. There were many places open that would have accepted it and stored it properly. With what's at stake I know I wouldn't want that sitting in my possesion any longer then it had to. Also troubling that MLB said what he did was just fine. Sorry but I disagree.
#LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
<< <i>I just find it interesting that this sample collector who has been doing this for a long time, doesn't know what the hours are of the local Fed Ex locations. There were many places open that would have accepted it and stored it properly. With what's at stake I know I wouldn't want that sitting in my possesion any longer then it had to. Also troubling that MLB said what he did was just fine. Sorry but I disagree. >>
Would you trust it to sit at a Kinko's store all weekend under supervision of minimum wage employees rather than with the sample collector approved by MLB and the Union? I'm sure the lawyers would have had a field day with that scenario as well. No system is 100% full proof but what they currently use seems to be about as good as you can have. The sample bottle is protected with a tamper evident seal and signed by the player. You can't have observers follow the sample from the toilet to the test lab the entire way. So you either trust the process or you don't. If the seal showed signs of tampering, then by all means throw the test results out. if the seal was intact, then live with the results.
I use this at work to transfer physical encrypted from time to time. It ain't cheap but I will tell you Fed Ex will not F'up your sample, data or what ever you have for White Glove.
<< <i>I just find it interesting that this sample collector who has been doing this for a long time, doesn't know what the hours are of the local Fed Ex locations. There were many places open that would have accepted it and stored it properly. With what's at stake I know I wouldn't want that sitting in my possesion any longer then it had to. Also troubling that MLB said what he did was just fine. Sorry but I disagree. >>
Would you trust it to sit at a Kinko's store all weekend under supervision of minimum wage employees rather than with the sample collector approved by MLB and the Union? I'm sure the lawyers would have had a field day with that scenario as well. No system is 100% full proof but what they currently use seems to be about as good as you can have. The sample bottle is protected with a tamper evident seal and signed by the player. You can't have observers follow the sample from the toilet to the test lab the entire way. So you either trust the process or you don't. If the seal showed signs of tampering, then by all means throw the test results out. if the seal was intact, then live with the results. >>
Would I trust it at a Kinkos store, stored properly as any other medical package they regularly handle would be? Yes. So would MLB and the MLBPA since that's how their program was set up to be operated. Getting it out of the hands of the one person who knows what it is (and whose it is) changes the reference from a name to a number. Big difference.
I don't buy it guys. I don't need a player to come out and fight, I don't expect anyone to be quiet either. If you are trying to sell me on the tester spiking the sample, I have a hard time with that.
Ockham's Razor for me.
The best pitch to start a hitter off with is always strike one.
this tag that was found on a pair of blue jeans will get you tested ,, lololololol,, if your woman see's it and how long it stays attatched to them,, lolol, coffee spitting photo i laughed so hard.
Would I trust it at a Kinkos store, stored properly as any other medical package they regularly handle would be? Yes. So would MLB and the MLBPA since that's how their program was set up to be operated. Getting it out of the hands of the one person who knows what it is (and whose it is) changes the reference from a name to a number. Big difference. >>
That's not what I understand about the policy. They are not allowed to toss the sample in a FEDEX drop box or at a Kinkos. That was Braun's story. All those FEDEX shipping locations that were referenced were either drop boxes or non-FEDEX facilities. As I understand it, only FEDEX operated shipping locations that are staffed to accept packages are allowed to be used for shipping samples. Also, wouldn't you be concerned that the test collector could spike the sample on the way to the FEDEX location even if shipped the same day? I guess we might as well just scrap the whole program since the results can't be trusted. I can't wait for the resumption of annual 60-70 HR seasons.
Comments
Couldn't help but steal the pic from the other thread.
<< <i>
Couldn't help but steal the pic from the other thread. >>
I was just thinking the same thing
<< <i>Oh, now I get. You have been confronted with evidence of his guilt so now your only arguement is deflection and personal attacks. I understand completely.
I love the fact that one of the biggest Brewers supporter is the one crying "This is not fair, my man is clean and ESPN, CBS, FOX, NBC, & ABC are all lying just to get ratings!" >>
Please direct me toward this supposed "evidence" of guilt. He was found not guilty.
Also, please direct me toward where I said Braun was clean. All I recall saying was that not enough of the facts surrounding the situation have been made public for me to hold an opinion. Many of the pieces of information being thrown around by the media and parroted by you have been leaks, not necessarily facts.
So now its your turn to spout off with more idiocy. Please continue to talk out of your arse on the subject.
Turn on your PM's CardboardKeeper I have some interesting stuff on the Braun case for you.
Also MLB wouldn't be pursuing this so hard, especially against a well liked player unless they really felt like he was a user. If they felt the could brush it under the rug they would have.
I also think its crazy to think anyone would doctor these results like they did, I work in testing labs and to do what Braun's defense claims could have happened would require planning and cunning of a Dan Brown novel.
<< <i>Please direct me toward this supposed "evidence" of guilt. He was found not guilty. >>
So was O.J.
<< <i>Its beyond a matter of speculation that he tested positive, he did. A second test also came up positive. Nobody even in Braun's camp denies the positive tests, they were arguing against the chain of custody and how that could have lead to false positive tests.
>>
Please post a factual report of a second positive test?
<< <i>I wonder what gumbyfan would be posting if this was Pujols that was busted? >>
Probably whatever Bill Holler would say.
But much more eloquently.
But I'll take this opportunity to say that I don't believe I've ever claimed that Pujols was a juicer.
Now if Braun was found to be 5-6 years older than he says he is, then I think comparing that situation to if Pujols was busted for it would be a fruitful comparison.
<< <i>He totally got caught ... The way this collection went happens all the time ... Union hard at work again >>
If this "happens all the time" then I wonder how many other players had positive tests overturned.
Of course, the league and those associated with the program would say 0, but that's because they have to say that. If they said Braun was the 2nd major leaguer to successfully overturn a drug suspension, there would be outrage and endless inquiry - not to mention the long winded speculation - about who the first 1st to successfully overturn a drug suspension was.
Shortly after ESPN irresponsibly reported the leaked personal medical information and said that nobody had ever overturned a suspension for this, Jimmy Rollins tweeted saying that he was aware of one person who had. Also, there is a confirmed report of a minor leaguer having his positive test overturned as well.
There's nothing new under the sun. Everyone's out to protect their own interests. If baseball wants to look like their program is the strongest in sports, they'll say that none have succeeded in overturning a suspension. To that end, I don't see how they could say anything differently, since HIPAA laws restrict the public release of personal medical information.
In the end, I just don't think enough of the facts have been released to say that Braun "totally" did anything.
Regardless of my posturing about Old Man Albert and his "real age".
Wish I had a glass house like that to live in.
My guess is that if he did juice, the truth will come out someday because someone will probably roll over on him (a scorned 'friend' perhaps).
<< <i>Braun doesn't dispute that he tested positive. >>
Of course he doesn't dispute that. That's what all of this is about. What he has disputed is that he ever put a substance in his body that would have caused him to fail that test. His dispute is that something happened with the test.
I would bet my life this substance never entered my body.
Blowhards on a message board spouting off about how "he never disputed it" doesn't change the fact that he has disputed it since the moment his personal medical information was inappropriately reported by ESPN.
<< <i>
<< <i>Braun doesn't dispute that he tested positive. >>
Of course he doesn't dispute that. That's what all of this is about. What he has disputed is that he ever put a substance in his body that would have caused him to fail that test. His dispute is that something happened with the test.
I would bet my life this substance never entered my body.
Blowhards on a message board spouting off about how "he never disputed it" doesn't change the fact that he has disputed it since the moment his personal medical information was inappropriately reported by ESPN. >>
Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs.
The way I see it there are only two possible scenarios here. Either Braun took banned substances and the test results are valid or the sample somehow got contaminated following agreed to handling protocol between the Union and MLB. If it's the latter scenario, then they need to completely revamp the process by which samples are taken. I guess a notary public will need to be present to watch the cup being filled and then accompany the sample handler to the FEDEX station and then travel with the sample until it reaches the lab and then watch as the sample is being tested. Only in that way can you be truly sure that the sample has not been tampered with. Well, there is always the possibility that the notary public agent could have been bought off and contaminated the sample.
<< <i>Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs.
You can't have it both ways.
"He didn't dispute it."
"Of course he disputed it."
I'm beginning to think that if the lab actually came out and said they screwed up, grabbed the wrong sample and that Braun was 100% clean, that a number of the naysayers here would still think he pulled something off.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard a ballplayer that tested positive adamantly insist that he didn't take banned drugs.
You can't have it both ways.
"He didn't dispute it."
"Of course he disputed it."
I'm beginning to think that if the lab actually came out and said they screwed up, grabbed the wrong sample and that Braun was 100% clean, that a number of the naysayers here would still think he pulled something off. >>
I actually didn't state whether he disputed it or not. I don't care what he said. I just look at things cut and dry. Either he juiced or the testing process was flawed. No other scenario unless you can suggest a scenario 'C'. If the process is flawed, then what changes need to be made? Should they allow a sample to sit in a FEDEX office for three days unattended? Should they not collect samples over the weekend since approved shipping methods are not available those days, thus giving a window for players to flush their systems?
I'm not meaning to pick on Braun but you either have a drug testing program that everyone adheres to or you scrap it and let everyone roid up like its 1998 again.
<< <i>I would bet my life this substance( the guy at Balco said this would never show up) never entered my body (or wasn't supposed to show up). >>
Corrected Gumby's quote to reflect the truth
<< <i>I just find it interesting that this sample collector who has been doing this for a long time, doesn't know what the hours are of the local Fed Ex locations. There were many places open that would have accepted it and stored it properly. With what's at stake I know I wouldn't want that sitting in my possesion any longer then it had to. Also troubling that MLB said what he did was just fine. Sorry but I disagree. >>
Would you trust it to sit at a Kinko's store all weekend under supervision of minimum wage employees rather than with the sample collector approved by MLB and the Union? I'm sure the lawyers would have had a field day with that scenario as well. No system is 100% full proof but what they currently use seems to be about as good as you can have. The sample bottle is protected with a tamper evident seal and signed by the player. You can't have observers follow the sample from the toilet to the test lab the entire way. So you either trust the process or you don't. If the seal showed signs of tampering, then by all means throw the test results out. if the seal was intact, then live with the results.
Fed Ex Link
I use this at work to transfer physical encrypted from time to time. It ain't cheap but I will tell you Fed Ex will not F'up your sample, data or what ever you have for White Glove.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just find it interesting that this sample collector who has been doing this for a long time, doesn't know what the hours are of the local Fed Ex locations. There were many places open that would have accepted it and stored it properly. With what's at stake I know I wouldn't want that sitting in my possesion any longer then it had to. Also troubling that MLB said what he did was just fine. Sorry but I disagree. >>
Would you trust it to sit at a Kinko's store all weekend under supervision of minimum wage employees rather than with the sample collector approved by MLB and the Union? I'm sure the lawyers would have had a field day with that scenario as well. No system is 100% full proof but what they currently use seems to be about as good as you can have. The sample bottle is protected with a tamper evident seal and signed by the player. You can't have observers follow the sample from the toilet to the test lab the entire way. So you either trust the process or you don't. If the seal showed signs of tampering, then by all means throw the test results out. if the seal was intact, then live with the results. >>
Would I trust it at a Kinkos store, stored properly as any other medical package they regularly handle would be? Yes. So would MLB and the MLBPA since that's how their program was set up to be operated. Getting it out of the hands of the one person who knows what it is (and whose it is) changes the reference from a name to a number. Big difference.
I don't buy it guys. I don't need a player to come out and fight, I don't expect anyone to be quiet either. If you are trying to sell me on the tester spiking the sample, I have a hard time with that.
Ockham's Razor for me.
<< <i>I love that this has turned into a "Who's Who of Alts of Banned Members" thread
For those of you keeping track at home, if your score card is as follows, you win a set of steak knives:
CardboardKeeper = fandango
LodiBrewFan = CrimsonTider
Someone get a note to Rube that PSA is allowing all banned members to return! >>
And don't forget MrG = Gary!
Even though I have been around longer than 80sJunkie ever was, and have never changed my ID!
TGF Collection
TGF Sports
<< <i>
Would I trust it at a Kinkos store, stored properly as any other medical package they regularly handle would be? Yes. So would MLB and the MLBPA since that's how their program was set up to be operated. Getting it out of the hands of the one person who knows what it is (and whose it is) changes the reference from a name to a number. Big difference. >>
That's not what I understand about the policy. They are not allowed to toss the sample in a FEDEX drop box or at a Kinkos. That was Braun's story. All those FEDEX shipping locations that were referenced were either drop boxes or non-FEDEX facilities. As I understand it, only FEDEX operated shipping locations that are staffed to accept packages are allowed to be used for shipping samples. Also, wouldn't you be concerned that the test collector could spike the sample on the way to the FEDEX location even if shipped the same day? I guess we might as well just scrap the whole program since the results can't be trusted. I can't wait for the resumption of annual 60-70 HR seasons.