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Guy came in today to sell 300 Morgan silver $ and

jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
Some heart breaking news I had to deliver today. Guy comes in with 300 silver $ that he had been buying up over the past year from a local auction outfit next county over. He had lost his job, and needed to sell to get by. Out of the 300 morgans, only 12 were real, all the rest fakes. I found out who the auction company was, and low and behold several others over the past year or two have had the same issues, numerous fakes. The local police had investigated them a while back , but they dont seem to do anything about it.

and to make this PM related, the fakes of course have no PM content at all

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ouch!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is absolutely horrible
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Were they the type of fakes that were super obvious to the eye of someone who collects and not just hoards?

    I've seen a number of fakes from China (I have had to go for business a few times and have stopped in the markets and they had literally hundreds and hundreds of fake silver dollars) but my friend, who also went for work and had only seen a few silver dollars thought he got authentic GREAT deals when he bought some for $20-$30 (for 4, so it was a relatively cheap lesson...and he was trying to be nice to me, so I paid him what he spent since he was thinking of doing me a solid by buying what he thought was real).

    Or, were these the type that a magnet test could have found?

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭
    Frightening. One can never be too cautious. My heart goes out to this guy.

    Can you "out" the outfit?
    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awful. What is the poor guy going to do with these now? Are you going to be able to help him with this auction company and police action if he chooses that path? Please keep us informed with the rest of the story. Terrible. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Sorry to hear that.

    You said that the police weren't doing anything about it.

    With that kind of volume, you may be able to get the Secret Service interested.
  • CCC2010CCC2010 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭
    That outfit should be reported. They must have "consultants" to verify the authenticity of the products they are auctioning right? Maybe someone from the inside is a part of this whole scam. Authorities should definitely be involved before they victimize another person. What if that person in that bad situation was You and someone could have done something a month ago to keep this from happening and they did not...
    How would you feelimage
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  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    300 Morgans seems like a alot of coins for someone who " had been buying up over the past year " and has now lost their job.
    Most people know if their job is unsecure and to be buying that many coins IF he knew he could lose his job is sketchy to me.
    Have you considered that maybe he was trying to pull a fast one on you and the whole being out of work story was a story made up to soften you up?
    it's a possibility...call me jaded.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • Jaded or not, I have to agree with you. Something seems a bit fishy about the whole thing... If he is legit, then that truly sucks, but something just isn't right.
    Remember that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

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  • As mentioned above, Secret Service. Morgan's are legal tender and these would be considered counterfeit. You can probably trace the fakes back to the source with their help. Then someone will talk.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Like another poster mentioned he could have made up the story trying to trick you.
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

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  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everytime I read something like this, it makes me sick

    Steve
    Promote the Hobby
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Absolutely terrible !!!
    How about dropping the
    name of the company
    so others are not "R'd O"
    Timbuk3
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Strange story indeed... if true, very sad. If not true, they guy should never have come to a coin shop with them... Cheers, RickO
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some heart breaking news I had to deliver today. Guy comes in with 300 silver $ that he had been buying up over the past year from a local auction outfit next county over. He had lost his job, and needed to sell to get by. Out of the 300 morgans, only 12 were real, all the rest fakes. I found out who the auction company was, and low and behold several others over the past year or two have had the same issues, numerous fakes. The local police had investigated them a while back , but they dont seem to do anything about it.

    and to make this PM related, the fakes of course have no PM content at all >>



    Have him try to get the Secret Service interested.

    As you say, others have been defrauded by the same seller.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How do you proceed to break such bad news like this to someone? I can't imagine the lesson/education you had to give to keep the guy calm throughout this ordeal.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>300 Morgans seems like a alot of coins for someone who " had been buying up over the past year " and has now lost their job.
    Most people know if their job is unsecure and to be buying that many coins IF he knew he could lose his job is sketchy to me.
    Have you considered that maybe he was trying to pull a fast one on you and the whole being out of work story was a story made up to soften you up?
    it's a possibility...call me jaded. >>



    Many don't know.
    When we laid off ~5000 people, there were NO inclinations that it was coming (at least to the rank and file) and the way it was done was somewhat random (I have 5 people doing similar jobs and I know 3 of them with 2 of them being new to the position but having the same tenure....hmmm...flip a coin (is what it seemed like)). Whole groups got axed.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • I think if this cat doesnt want to seek recourse via however possible then his story stinks. I think most guys that just lost a job and have to sell would be livid and doing anything and everything to get that money back.
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭
    Where the 12 real ones on top? image
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My wife's father goes to an auction that has been selling fake gold bars lately.

    The obvious red flag is why sell 1 ounce gold bars at a weekend auction when any pawn shop, coin shop, jewelry store or even "we buy gold" shop in town would buy them at something close to melt (Luckily I made my father in law see this logic before he got burned for more than a couple 5 gram pieces).

    The auctioneer knows full well the bars are fake. According to my father in law, he simply says "We've been told that these are good--but that's all I know. No refunds, no returns" or words to that effect.

    The auctioneer can apparently sleep at night knowing he's encouraging the gullible and/or greedy to buy these fakes. And he apparently is not concerned with people getting burned and shunning his auction because of it.

    Ever heard the expression "You can't cheat an honest man"? Sure the auctioneer is dishonest. But aren't the people buying internationally traded commodities at a fraction of their known value?
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • Big difference between fake gold anonymous bars and Uncle Sams Currency though.
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How do you proceed to break such bad news like this to someone? I can't imagine the lesson/education you had to give to keep the guy calm throughout this ordeal. >>



    I mean, this is far worse than having to tell someone with a Top 20 registry Jefferson nickel collection that most of their coins are overgraded. Usually a short view of my nickels wises them up but 288 fakes Morgans? This just boggles the mind.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    how horrible. i been out of work for a while as well and its not a good feeling. my heart goes out to them all. they should hang the auction people for doing a rotten thing like that image
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    I think if this cat doesnt want to seek recourse via however possible then his story stinks. I think most guys that just lost a job and have to sell would be livid and doing anything and everything to get that money back

    Wow! I can't believe I actually agree with that image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • Do you know this customer?

    Heads or tails?

    Either he is honest and was scammed, heads. Or he was part of the scam, tails!

    It's a worry everytime we buy PM's. If the offer sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think if this cat doesnt want to seek recourse via however possible then his story stinks. I think most guys that just lost a job and have to sell would be livid and doing anything and everything to get that money back. >>



    James, for many on these boards, I would agree with you, however, I have seen a number of folks that did get laid off and went into an almost immediate state of depression image
    Once that happens, their spirit just seemed broken. Totally sad to see.
    Some folks can snap out of it on their own, some need help. Some never seem to snap out of it. It's a battle of human willpower.

    I hope it is false, but from what the OP typed, about the local auction house being involved and that already being investigated prior, it doesn't sound like something this one person would try to cook up.

    To an average layman, once they get ripped off, they generally don't know what recourses they may have and don't know where to start. Some folks constantly refer to " a lawyer on retainer" or "I'll contact my lawyer". Well, I don't have a lawyer and the few times I have needed one (when I have been hit in auto accidents), I had to ask around or hit the yellowpages. I had no idea how to go about things the right way myself (tried that once, when I was in college, and I am still suffering from back issues from that one but hardly got any compensation because I didn't know all the information I needed or what to do).

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To answer a few questions that were brought up:

    First, the fakes were fairly obvious to me, but I have been doing coins since the age of 5, so the avg person buying would be a far comparsion to myself. These were not the magnet kind , in fact many of them looked to have been atifically aged to appear more realistic.

    Definite job loss issue, not somebody BS'ing me. There is a local goodyear tire plant here in town he worked for who employs several thousand people from the surrounding area, in fact it is less than a mile from my current store location, so i do have several customers who work there, and hang out in the store. When the guy came in , one co-worker happened to be there and they new each other. The plant has been cutting back due to lower volumes of tires needed. Goodyear is one of the highest paying manufacturing jobs in this area, its like the cadillac of this type of blue collar work, most of the people working there when working, do pretty well pay wise.

    IMO, this auction company knows what they are selling and are in fact distributing these out through the auction venue and other folks who work for them. Some of there associates have been succesful in passing them off to local pawn shops, flea market dealers, even one of the other local coin shops where the owner is only somewhat knowledgeable. This has been investigated by that local police department and confirmed, yet they still our in business as far as i know. Based on other reports for similar individuals burned, it has happened to quite a few. In one case I was told that the secret service in Wilmington, NC was contacted, but refused to look into it becuase it did not meet some kind of min $ for them to get involved. (Course let someone pay with a single counterfiet $100 bill and see how fast they respond)

    jim
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No they were mixed in with all the fakes.

    I truly beleive the guy is trying to do all he can to get some help to get his money back, but is having no luck as far as I know?

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    wow. what a sad story. A definite sign of the times. The guy who thought he was honestly building up a little hoard so he could have something to fall back on gets taken by the bigger fish in town who maybe even is taking advantage of the situation they saw coming due to local circumatances. Unreal.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • CubbyCubby Posts: 2,096
    Very sad story


    BTW: Cubby=Cub Fan
  • There are ways and means to get his money back.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    whats the name of the company selling these?
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There are ways and means to get his money back. >>



    Are any of them legal?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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