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Ebay ethics situation. Your opinion?
GoldClause
Posts: 838 ✭
True story that hasn't played out yet.
I was looking for an item. None were available, so I looked through completed auctions. Found one that went unsold. Emailed the dealer through ebay asking if it was still for sale. The answer was yes, and I could have it for the same price as previously listed. Great! I told him to relist it as a buy-it-now and email me the auction number, because I didn't want to go outside of ebay.
So he relisted it. I checked my email first thing in the morning, and he had replied with the auction number. Strangely, he listed it about 2AM. No big deal, I don't care if he works late. However, someone else hit the BIN at 5AM, about an hour before I checked my email.
So, I email the dealer and explain that someone else hit the BIN. I asked what he could do, since I still want the item.
He sort of brushed me off with "I was just doing it how you told me to. I guess I can email the buyer and see what he wants to do."
I said, "ok, let me know."
By the way, this isn't a coin, it's a relatively inexpensive collectible, less than $50, but one that could take another year to find.
What do you think the ethical responsibilities are, if any?
I'm going to ask about it one more time if I don't hear back, but I'm not going to make a fuss over it. As much as I want the item, no collectible is worth arguing with someone over. Not for me anyway.
However, if I were the dealer, I would feel an ethical responsibility to complete the transaction with me, since we worked out an agreement ahead of time. I wouldn't "see what the buyer wanted to do", I'd just explain what happened and cancel the transaction.
What do you think should happen?
I was looking for an item. None were available, so I looked through completed auctions. Found one that went unsold. Emailed the dealer through ebay asking if it was still for sale. The answer was yes, and I could have it for the same price as previously listed. Great! I told him to relist it as a buy-it-now and email me the auction number, because I didn't want to go outside of ebay.
So he relisted it. I checked my email first thing in the morning, and he had replied with the auction number. Strangely, he listed it about 2AM. No big deal, I don't care if he works late. However, someone else hit the BIN at 5AM, about an hour before I checked my email.
So, I email the dealer and explain that someone else hit the BIN. I asked what he could do, since I still want the item.
He sort of brushed me off with "I was just doing it how you told me to. I guess I can email the buyer and see what he wants to do."
I said, "ok, let me know."
By the way, this isn't a coin, it's a relatively inexpensive collectible, less than $50, but one that could take another year to find.
What do you think the ethical responsibilities are, if any?
I'm going to ask about it one more time if I don't hear back, but I'm not going to make a fuss over it. As much as I want the item, no collectible is worth arguing with someone over. Not for me anyway.
However, if I were the dealer, I would feel an ethical responsibility to complete the transaction with me, since we worked out an agreement ahead of time. I wouldn't "see what the buyer wanted to do", I'd just explain what happened and cancel the transaction.
What do you think should happen?
0
Comments
It's unfortunate it was listed at 2am.
But if I was in your shoes, I'd just look at it as a tough break and move on.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Making a deal like this is tantamount to going outside ebay anyway. Just my opinion.
<< <i>Making a deal like this is tantamount to going outside ebay anyway. Just my opinion. >>
Not in ebay's opinion, happens more than you would think. EB/PP still get their cut.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
When I have done this, I have been on the phone to the dealer and he has told me the instant he lists the item and the item number. It takes a while for eBay indexing to catch up, so it won't show up for everyone else right away. Then I just hit the BIN.
Someone else got to the BIN before you did in this case. The guy who did that is entitled to the item.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
<< <i>Whoever bought it, bought it. Even if you would have agreed on a time that he would relist it, and you were ready to hit the "buy it now" button, if someone beat you to it, he's the buyer.
Making a deal like this is tantamount to going outside ebay anyway. Just my opinion. >>
I understand someone beat me to it. I don't understand how it's the same as going outside ebay. I COULD have went outside ebay, and just paypal'd him the amount and it would already be on it's way to my house. I was trying to do the ethical thing by asking him to relist on ebay.
i have the perfect solution for these situations as i have encountered them on many occasions
if you are the seller list the BIN with an insane high BIN with the OBO option so the buyer can just submit an offer for the agreed amount. this prevents anyone within any reason of hitting
the BIN and messing up the original transaction.
if you are the buyer, simply ask the seller to do what I just mentioned. Just make sure the item is listed with a really high BIN with the OBO option.
.
Doesn't help you now, but will in the future.
.
<< <i>.
i have the perfect solution for these situations as i have encountered them on many occasions
if you are the seller list the BIN with an insane high BIN with the OBO option so the buyer can just submit an offer for the agreed amount. this prevents anyone within any reason of hitting
the BIN and messing up the original transaction.
if you are the buyer, simply ask the seller to do what I just mentioned. Just make sure the item is listed with a really high BIN with the OBO option.
.
Doesn't help you now, but will in the future.
. >>
Thanks. Really good advice.
<< <i> told him to relist it as a buy-it-now and email me the auction number, because I didn't want to go outside of ebay. So he relisted it. I checked my email first thing in the morning, and he had replied with the auction number. >>
Looks like he did exactly as you asked. Expecting him to cancel the transaction with the other buyer (and maybe get a neg for the trouble) would be a bit much. But then, that's just me.
Ebay is an open market place (shop) for all to buy on and not a private website
It would be different if you contacted a dealer and asked them to place a coin on hold for you and they then sold it to someone else but you can't reserve a buy it now on ebay..
By ebays codes etc I don't think back room deals are supposed to go on but in hindsight you should have agreed on a time to relist the coin and you should have been waiting to hit the buy it now button.
I once contacted a California dealer who withdrew a rare coin auction from eBay when he started receiving spontaneous offers to buy the item off eBay, since he suspected it might be worth far more than a common issue. I consulted with him and convinced him that I would pay a certain price for the item when it was properly attributed in a TPG holder, and if he would relist the item with a BIN at a specific predesignated time. He researched the item, and subsequently notified me in advance that he would agree to relist the item at a specific time with a BIN. I followed his instructions and bought the item without incident. A little common sense planning is all it takes. YOu just assumed incorrectly that no one else cared about the item you missed. There's a lesson.
Edited to add: some very quick responses here. I like the solution Lance Newman proposed for future success. I hope you don't have to wait a year or more for another example to arrive.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>I thought you weren't supposed to contact sellers to make deals, either on or off ebay. To me, it's the same principle. I'm not saying it's unethical or ethical. If an item doesn't sell, ebay doesn't get its cut anyway. >>
I contacted him through ebay, to buy an item through ebay. I've always thought that is permissible.
I figure the guy probably doesn't want to risk a neg with the other buyer and that is understandable.
<< <i>I contacted him through ebay, to buy an item through ebay. I've always thought that is permissible. >>
I don't know why not, as eBay has such a feature already:
Want It Now
Want It Now is a place where buyers can tell sellers exactly what they're looking for by posting a message (want ads) to the Want It Now area. Sellers review these messages and respond to the buyer with the item number of their matching listing.
<< <i>Tell him you would appreciate it if he would (check with the seller) and leave the ball in his court.
I figure the guy probably doesn't want to risk a neg with the other buyer and that is understandable. >>
I understand that too.
Thanks for all the opinions. I'm just going to let it go unless he emails me back saying the other buyer agreed to cancel.
the buyer nor recipient of the auction item. I have done this several times and always took my shot and won, but I may lose someday
and if so, sobeit, the auction item belongs to the bidder and in no logical situation should they give it up.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
You'll see it and nab it.
bob
As a buyer: QualityCurrencycom, tychojoe, AurumMiner, Collectorcoins, perfectstrike, ModCrewman, LeeBone, nickel, REALGATOR, MICHAELDIXON, pointfivezero, Walkerguy21D
Trades: georgiacop50
--Jerry
<< <i>You can't expect a dealer to spend lots of time on a $50 item. Your screwup was not going outside of ebay. You should have done the deal right away and not asked him to put it for sale in a public marketplace. He said $50, you should have said "Send me a paypal invoice for $45 and I'll pay right away." You wouldn't be wasting your time creating threads.
--Jerry >>
I was thinking the same.
In the case the OP presented,, there is no ethical issue.
<< <i>I thought you weren't supposed to contact sellers to make deals, either on or off ebay. To me, it's the same principle. I'm not saying it's unethical or ethical. If an item doesn't sell, ebay doesn't get its cut anyway. >>
Ebay welcomes you to arrange for a sale to be made on ebay. It is how they make money.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Seriously though.. the seller is obligated to the buyer. He is doing something very unorthodox to see what his customer wants to do.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Whoever bought it, bought it. Even if you would have agreed on a time that he would relist it, and you were ready to hit the "buy it now" button, if someone beat you to it, he's the buyer.
Making a deal like this is tantamount to going outside ebay anyway. Just my opinion. >>
I understand someone beat me to it. I don't understand how it's the same as going outside ebay. I COULD have went outside ebay, and just paypal'd him the amount and it would already be on it's way to my house. I was trying to do the ethical thing by asking him to relist on ebay. >>
I agree with Goldclause.
Ebay still got their percentage.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>You asked him to list it.....he listed it just like you asked him to.....someone else beat you to the item. In all truthfullness, the "obligation" of this seller is to complete the transaction with the other buyer. Ebay is not your personal sandbox. Once an item is listed there, its fair game for all. Tough break. >>
I can live with that. I just wanted to see what others thought.
<< <i>Off ebay with paypal. $50. Op should have sent payment before he even got off the phone with seller. Wondercoin >>
<< <i>The early bird gets the worm. Set your alarm next time.
Seriously though.. the seller is obligated to the buyer. He is doing something very unorthodox to see what his customer wants to do. >>
Yup!! You snooze, you lose!!
Link to private auction
<< <i>Off ebay with paypal. $50. Op should have sent payment before he even got off the phone with seller. Wondercoin >>
The problem is this: any discussion in an ebay message concerning an off-ebay purchase can result in one or both parties being banned from ebay should ebay see the message.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>.
i have the perfect solution for these situations as i have encountered them on many occasions
if you are the seller list the BIN with an insane high BIN with the OBO option so the buyer can just submit an offer for the agreed amount. this prevents anyone within any reason of hitting
the BIN and messing up the original transaction.
if you are the buyer, simply ask the seller to do what I just mentioned. Just make sure the item is listed with a really high BIN with the OBO option.
.
Doesn't help you now, but will in the future.
. >>
This is brilliant! I had the same situation, and told the seller I'd check every day right after noon for a listing. They wouldn't call me over the phone. Anyway, so naturally, I forgot about it during the day, and went back several hours later. Luckily, my item was still there. But the best offer idea is brilliant.
Back to the question at hand....in my situation, if I had lost out, I would have considered it just "one of those things" and let it go. I was prepared for that risk, and I'm sure the OP knew that it was a remote possibility when it was suggested, even if timed perfectly. I'd definitely hold a grudge against the seller, but life is too short to be peeved for too long.
Steve
Someone else simply got there first.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I see no "ethical responsibility" here at all since the dealer did put the item up for sale.
Someone else simply got there first. >>
what he said...
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
The problem is this: any discussion in an ebay message concerning an off-ebay purchase can result in one or both parties being banned from ebay should ebay see the message."
The auction had already ended with no bids. There was no existing auction. Hence, no problem in my mind with asking to purchase the item using paypal (which is also ebay's company).
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>The auction had already ended with no bids. There was no existing auction. Hence, no problem in my mind with asking to purchase the item using paypal (which is also ebay's company).
Just my 2 cents. >>
As much as eBay would like it to be otherwise, once a listing ends with no bidder/buyer, the seller (who owns the item) is free to do with it as he wishes. eBay does not have exclusive lifetime rights to profit from its sale.
<< <i>
<< <i>The auction had already ended with no bids. There was no existing auction. Hence, no problem in my mind with asking to purchase the item using paypal (which is also ebay's company).
Just my 2 cents. >>
As much as eBay would like it to be otherwise, once a listing ends with no bidder/buyer, the seller (who owns the item) is free to do with it as he wishes. eBay does not have exclusive lifetime rights to profit from its sale. >>
From ebay policy:
"We don't allow our members to use eBay to contact each other to make offers to buy or sell items outside of eBay. Also, members can't use information obtained from eBay to contact each other about buying or selling outside of eBay."
All members agree to follow ebay policy. While an ebay seller is free to do as he pleases with his merchandise, ebay policy prohibits him from using the ebay system (ebay messages) to sell outside of ebay. Ebay messages to do so are subject to review by ebay and can result in suspension of both parties for violating agreed upon ebay policy.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left