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If the seller wasn't honest in saying the bar is silver clad,

piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
how would I know the difference? I'm tellin ya, this whole stacking thing is becoming more & more slippery by the day image

Search item number 110821996352 on eBay.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.

Comments

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>how would I know the difference? I'm tellin ya, this whole stacking thing is becoming more & more slippery by the day image

    Search item number 110821996352 on eBay. >>



    link


    Since the seller does not have a scan of the reverse, it's difficult...however, most legit silver bars do say.....999 fine silver ... this one does not. I suspect the reverse may give us a hint.

    BTW some of the US Flag bars are also silver clad and you would never know it.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Just 1 more reason to stick to name brand, easily recognizable bars.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just 1 more reason to stick to name brand, easily recognizable bars. >>



    Yeah...like the ones in this thread?image

    Chinese counterfeit bars
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    I sent him a question, we'll see how/if they respond.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Just 1 more reason to stick to name brand, easily recognizable bars. >>



    Yeah...like the ones in this thread?image

    Chinese counterfeit bars >>





    You missed the point I guess OPA. If you buy standard, name brand silver bars or rounds, it is easy to get dimension data for those pieces. When you buy bars from unknown refiners, then you have no idea what the measurements of a legit bar should be.

    Give me a pile of 1oz engelhard bars, and I can pull the fakes from the real ones at above 99% accuracy.
    Give me a pile of "off brand" silver bars and i'd have no idea which were real/fake.
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    I sent him a question, we'll see how/if they respond.

    Damn, that was quick.

    According to the seller, "the bar has clad clearly stamped on it on the back, its clearly shown in the item image. it is clad" [sic]
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I sent him a question, we'll see how/if they respond.

    Damn, that was quick.

    According to the seller, "the bar has clad clearly stamped on it on the back, its clearly shown in the item image. it is clad" [sic] >>



    He's accurately describing the bar(s), has them listed in the correct category, but is missing the reverse scan. I would give him a 90% accuracy rating and anyone who bids on this junk thinking it's silver, won't get any pitty from me.

    Unlike this seller who is scamming the bidders with his non silver, garbage "German Silver" buffalo bars.



    German silver junk in the silver bullion category
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭
    I thought ebay was clamping down on this trash or is it OK as it's listed in Exonumia.

    Another reason to use only trusted sellers on ebay or the internet.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I thought ebay was clamping down on this trash or is it OK as it's listed in Exonumia.

    Another reason to use only trusted sellers on ebay or the internet. >>



    Exonumia is one of the the correct categories.

    Anyone looking for silver bars in the silver bullion category, will not have to look at his items.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    He answered my follow up by stating that Auctiva occasionally drops photos (the reverse of the bar), but more info was in his ebay store. Didn't waste my time checking.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>When you buy bars from unknown refiners, then you have no idea what the measurements of a legit bar should be. >>



    image

    I would also add "home made bars" to the list of undesirables.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • NumisMeNumisMe Posts: 841 ✭✭
    He has clearly stated (twice) in his auction description that these are Silver Plated bars



    << <i>We truly have the best prices around and strive for excellence. Your item will Ship in a protective bubble envelope and come with a protective case! This is a Fine Plated Silver Bar that is perfect for adding to your collection or will make that great holiday gift to your loved ones! >>




    I don't see the problem image
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    He has clearly stated (twice) in his auction description that these are Silver Plated bars

    Agree - but the item itself says one troy ounce 999 silver.

    Two years from now, the auction records will be gone and the bar will still say one troy ounce 999 silver.
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Anyone looking for silver bars in the silver bullion category, will not have to look at his items

    Not quite correct. Do a search for "10 oz liberty silver bar" under "all categories", and you will see it comes up as a result. I never specifially search in just "silver bullion" category and i'd bet 98% of people search using "all categories" and they don't pay attention to what category result comes up after doing their search. The just want to see the items they searched for.
    Point im making is it comes up when I'm looking for silver bars.

    The seller comes up with the excuse that the picture of the reverse got dropped when upolading pics after Wingsrule questioned him about it...well then add the damn pic now! There is nothing but deception going on here in this auction although he has left just enough wiggle room to weasel out of a smooth transaction. He does have a 30 day return poilicy, so I guess i'd have to agree with OPA that he is about 90% accurate but he point i'm arguing is that his deception is all 100% by design.
    This made me sick last night when I came across it looking up a silver bar.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • NumisMeNumisMe Posts: 841 ✭✭


    << <i>Agree - but the item itself says one troy ounce 999 silver.

    Two years from now, the auction records will be gone and the bar will still say one troy ounce 999 silver. >>




    I see your point, and I have to agree with you there. However, as far as the auction goes, though we may not like it, he has acurately described the item he has for sale, other than the fact that he has failed to supply an image of the reverse.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars.

    I could not agree more, it disgusts me.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars. >>



    Absolutely agree.

    At least his auction do indicate the worthlessness of his bars .. Not so with this scammer Con Man
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars. >>





    Not so sure Weiss. For the stacker who keeps some/all metals at home, loading up a "diversionary" safe with a couple of handfuls of these may just get any would be burglar out of your house just as pleased as punch. His demeanor would quickly change when trying to fence them though.
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But it is described as "art clad bar" !!!
    Timbuk3
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars. >>





    Not so sure Weiss. For the stacker who keeps some/all metals at home, loading up a "diversionary" safe with a couple of handfuls of these may just get any would be burglar out of your house just as pleased as punch. His demeanor would quickly change when trying to fence them though. >>



    Have to admit I hadn't considered that possibility. That just may be the one reason for these to be manufactured. But even that seems a bit of a stretch image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say a majority of people on the streets wouldn't know the difference between the terms plated, clad and 90% or 99%. The fact that these plated pieces are about the same price as 99% pieces might sell for makes it more believable to the unknowing. I would say this intentional on the part of those marketing these pieces making it indeed deceptive. Some will end up buying these and will be in for a rude awakening on selling day.

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ModernEaglesModernEagles Posts: 46
    I've purchased a lot of silver proof sets in the past from Ebay. One of my methods is the tissue test. When you put a single ply of tissue over silver coins they look bright white compared to the clads. has anyone tried this with silver bars? I wouldn't see why they wouldn't test out the same if they were fake. Try it at home it's an easy test.

    -M
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I've purchased a lot of silver proof sets in the past from Ebay. One of my methods is the tissue test. When you put a single ply of tissue over silver coins they look bright white compared to the clads. has anyone tried this with silver bars? I wouldn't see why they wouldn't test out the same if they were fake. Try it at home it's an easy test.

    -M >>





    That wont work on .999 fine clad bars. Since the outer layer is identical to a real bar, both bars should appear the same under tissue.
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There is no legitimate reason for these bars. Either they're being sold to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars, or they're being sold to people who understand they're fake and who want to sell them to gullible people as genuine 10 ounce silver bars. >>



    Well said - you nailed it.
    NO END IN SIGHT LIB $2.50'S CAC ONLY
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
  • 1970SilverArt1970SilverArt Posts: 482 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>how would I know the difference? I'm tellin ya, this whole stacking thing is becoming more & more slippery by the day image

    Search item number 110821996352 on eBay. >>



    link


    Since the seller does not have a scan of the reverse, it's difficult...however, most legit silver bars do say.....999 fine silver ... this one does not. I suspect the reverse may give us a hint.

    BTW some of the US Flag bars are also silver clad and you would never know it. >>



    I have seen those on ebay too OPA. The reverse type of that clad US Flag bar makes it look like a Silvertowne US Flag silver art bar.
    DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a '70's silver art bar expert but I try my best to play one on the Internet.
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like Gecko's idea about having a diversion stash...

    The other thing I noticed for this is the clad bars and the 'german silver' (NOT 'german' silver as the fine print of the auction says--talk about weasel words!) is they are clear they will not deliver to APO/FPO. That tells me they don't use the USPS -- either for legal reasons, or perhaps shipping items like this overseas violates some kind of international rule (customs forms required for overseas duty stations--still have to comply with local laws!).

    Just made me say hm.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I like Gecko's idea about having a diversion stash...

    The other thing I noticed for this is the clad bars and the 'german silver' (NOT 'german' silver as the fine print of the auction says--talk about weasel words!) is they are clear they will not deliver to APO/FPO. That tells me they don't use the USPS -- either for legal reasons, or perhaps shipping items like this overseas violates some kind of international rule (customs forms required for overseas duty stations--still have to comply with local laws!).

    Just made me say hm. >>



    Delivery confirmation to APO/FPO addresses is not available via USPS. As such, you are not covered under PayPal seller protection.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get things with delivery confirmation, tracking, registered, insured mail frequently. I checked the USPS site and the service is available, just you have to do walk in service (I picked a 2 pound parcel post box as my example). Maybe some FPO/APO/DPOs are limited, but mine gets all of these services including on line tracking for registered mail. Customs forms are required.

    see if this works, I entered the information and this was the postage calculation, including delviery confirmation.

    the most recent postal bulletin

    Code "O" is for 'delivery status information for Extra Services is not available on usps.com'. I scrolled through and didn't see a zip code with that restriction. Kind of interesting as my zip code does not restrict alcohol yet that is restricted per the host nation's rules. Seems like that code would be there.

    Code "D" would have me devastated. I mean really, give up my coffee???!!!?!

    I didn't see any precious metal/copies etc mentioned, so I guess that's not it. Maybe it's just not using usps at all and nothing more nefarious. Shoot I've gotten bullion from three different dealers, and some higher value (to me) coins from ebay, heritage, on line dealers, and ngc (sorry pcgs) all with tracking, insurance and/or registered type information. Including simple delivery confirmation.

    I do think there is some thought there isn't delivery confirmation and maybe some individual post offices work that way. I had one ebay guy freak about the address and 'no confirmation'. I gently tried to tell him it could be done (it was a $600 coin) and he was so worried I just had him send it to my mom's house. Which was NOT my confirmed address (even paypal confirms my FPO address) so I think ultimately he would have had problems with paypal if the coin had not reached my mom's house.

    But back to the OP--I do agree this seller is upfront in terms of written description (NOT like the 'german silver' vs. 'german' silver) but bars like this could cause a lot of problems. Same as those alibaba links. egads. And once I'm back in the states I may just get myself a nice batch of them for a diversion. I REALLY like that idea!

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the diversion safe angle, for robbers, "here, take what you can carry and just go"

    the other use for fake bars is maybe they're almost as fun (for some) to heft and clink and stack as real bars, there is also a strong market for fake fun coins privately minted, I personally don't understand either of them but do find it somewhat comical that many of the same crowd that pay up extra for "pretty and neat bullion" would scoff at fake bars image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    For the stacker who keeps some/all metals at home, loading up a "diversionary" safe with a couple of handfuls of these may just get any would be burglar out of your house just as pleased as punch.

    I like Gecko's idea about having a diversion stash...


    Yeah, that's a Chicago thing image You have to be prepared to be ripped off around here because eventually, it's gonna happen.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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