Will PCGS ever create a duel grading scale?

JCB1983

What I mean by this is the standard grading scale and one for naturally toned? I am sorry if this question is mildly absurd, but what reference guide are we currently using to pay our premiums for U.S. toned coinage? Say for instance a toned attribution was requested. Would it be too much if a mercury dime was graded as VF-35 (NT/6) or (T/6)? I would say that we are currently deciding prices based on simple hueristics. There is a huge market out there for toned coinage, but there is no reference guide or standard involved. With this new chemical sniffing tech. could we ever see a toned attribution?

~Jason

Twinturbo

Well lets start off with basics

Not all toning brings a premium.
Toning on circulated coins such as a vf35 brings no premium most of the time.
Eye appeal of toning will vary on series to series, whats a monster for a peace wont be a monster for a morgan

In addition eye appeal varies from person to person coin to coin, angle to angle

Overall this is a thinly traded market with lots of risk, too many variables, to have the toning graded.

MrEureka

Will PCGS ever dictate a cruel grading scale?

howards

> Will PCGS ever create a duel grading scale?

I think people duel over PCGS' grading scale all the time already.

WTCG

The one fact to remember is that toning attributes and attractiveness are subjective. Toning that appears to complement the coin to one person may be seen as a liability to another. Toning that appears to be natural to one person can be perceived as possibly artificial to someone else.. There is no universal way to attribute toning characteristics.

Barry

Well let's start off with basics.

Unless you're talking about grading swords, a dual grading scale is unlikely.

TomB

It appears you are mixing up grading and value. Regardless, it is not up to PCGS to attempt to match a grade to how much someone will pay for an attribute.

ambro51

The did grade the duel between Burr and Hamilton and Hamilton was graded 'loser'.

messydesk

I'm sure they've already been accused of grading coins at 10 paces.

DIMEMAN

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>It appears you are mixing up grading and value. Regardless, it is not up to PCGS to attempt to match a grade to how much someone will pay for an attribute. >>



Precisely that sort of thing occurred until recently, and perhaps still does: market grading, particularly the practice of putting a technical AU 55-58 coin into a low-MS holder, or bumping up a grade for nice color.

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>I'm sure they've already been accused of grading coins at 10 paces. >>



And a few seconds.

messydesk

Now that I got my silly answer out of the way, I think the only toning scale that has been useful on a graded coin is PCI's from their ca. 1990 holders, which simply said to what degree the coin was toned or white, and serves to bookmark the coin's appearance at a point in time. Even though grading a coin has a market acceptability component, it is still a largely technical description that correlates strongly to how the market will receive a coin. Attempting to rank market desirability by toning would be futile given how subjective toning is. Some people love tab toning on commemoratives. While I won't say I hate it, I find it distracting. Some people will pay huge money for heavy, vibrant rainbow toning on a Morgan dollar, but next to a coin with a very subtle rainbow, the subtle one wins. For me it's analogous to clown paint vs. just enough make-up.

lordmarcovan

Duels are easy to grade. Whoever is still standing at the end wins.

If both parties miss their shots, then it's a tie. If they then call it quits, both win.

If both parties hit one another, then die, then nobody wins.

ricko

All inputs above clearly show why tarnish will not be graded. The comment about the sniffer leads me to believe that many have the false impression that the sniffer will detect AT - unless 'painted on' with some strange chemical, it will not detect AT. AT can be performed quickly using techniques that employ natural components that will not be detected. Cheers, RickO

oneor11

Personally, I would hope they would not do this. Though I respect my collector peers' passion and appreciation for toned coins, I just can't join that camp. I am not attracted to most toned coins, would not pay a premium for them, and just have the gut feeling that most of them are expertly artificially toned. And I don't want some toning attributes on a label to (a) implicitly imply that that blast white coins, or normal coins with no toning, are somehow valued less (because that's probably what would happen). And (b) this would just lead to more people destroying a perfectly good coin by artificially toning it in search of that premium.

My opinion is that many different people like many different aspects of a coin- we don't need a designation on a label for every one of them.

Just my opinion though!

Jacob

jesbroken

I personally feel, the only "duel" grading that PCGS should be concerned with is the obverse and reverse grades which are now averaged for a median grade.
I like the way ANACS originally graded coins, but then that's too much work for anyone to have to do, right?
Jim

DavidLawrence

<< <i>What I mean by this is the standard grading scale and one for naturally toned?

~Jason >>



Not a chance IMO. I thought you were going to suggest the possibility of a 100-point grade along-side the (current) 70-point grade. This would be interesting and seen as a transition to a grading scale that been discussed off and on over the years, but never seriously. Either way, it's an interesting conversation topic, though I don't think it will ever happen because it will add confusion to everyone involved and confusion is not good for the industry.

D

I don't understand what collector or person needs a number on a holder to inform them of what to spend on a specific coin. To me, and I'm sure many share similar thoughts; the number on the holder for grade is already irrelevant enough to what I'm spending. The last thing I want is extra stuff on the holder.

"PCGS MS65+ SECURE PLUS FIRST STRIKE FIRST DAY OF ISSUE SIGNED BY JOHN JACOB JINGLEHEIMER SCHMIDT" and under it all, centered on the holder...Eliasberg.

-D

crypto79

while I know "they" say there is no such thing as a stupid question.......

Connecticoin

<< <i>Duels are easy to grade. Whoever is still standing at the end wins.

If both parties miss their shots, then it's a tie. If they then call it quits, both win.

If both parties hit one another, then die, then nobody wins. >>



Ha, exactly what I was thinking

DIMEMAN

There are tooooooooooooo many grades now! Especially MS. There are 11 grades of UNC. With the + that makes 22. Then 11 plain with Bean. then 11 with + and bean. Then 11 plain with gold bean. Then 11 with + and gold bean. That's what....66 grades of UNC. Anybody that says you can fit an UNC coin into 1 of those 66 grades is a BOLDFACE liar!!!

They should have just left it UNC (BU)....ch bu.....gem bu and surpurb bu. Any further break down is a crapshoot!

JMHO!

MsMorrisine

some say ngc and pcgs already duel with their scales.

BUFFNIXX

grading is complicated enough without this and you will never see it.

BUFFNIXX

will pigs ever fly?

LanceNewmanOCC

.
this seems to be the eye appeal/toning scale, no?

eye appeal guidelines

other numbered scale & more
.

golfer72

<< <i>There are tooooooooooooo many grades now! Especially MS. There are 11 grades of UNC. With the + that makes 22. Then 11 plain with Bean. then 11 with + and bean. Then 11 plain with gold bean. Then 11 with + and gold bean. That's what....66 grades of UNC. Anybody that says you can fit an UNC coin into 1 of those 66 grades is a BOLDFACE liar!!!

They should have just left it UNC (BU)....ch bu.....gem bu and surpurb bu. Any further break down is a crapshoot!

JMHO! >>

BINGO! You got it dimeman.

DIMEMAN

I think that is the first time golfer72 has ever agreed with me.

golfer72

<< <i> I think that is the first time golfer72 has ever agreed with me. >>

LOL! Really? You got this one right though. If it makes you feel any better though I dont like dimes.