What if I found a bunch of black NGC slabs?
Billet7
Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
They're all in first generation black NGC slabs, all common Morgan dollars, and for the sake of discussion lets say there are 10 of them. At what price would you be a buyer? How many people on the forum are interested in something like that? Would you keep it, or just hope for a flip?
FYI they are very scarce, usually commanding in excess of $1000 for any common date US coin.
FYI they are very scarce, usually commanding in excess of $1000 for any common date US coin.
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<< <i>They're all in first generation black NGC slabs, all common Morgan dollars, and for the sake of discussion lets say there are 10 of them. At what price would you be a buyer? How many people on the forum are interested in something like that? Would you keep it, or just hope for a flip?
FYI they are very scarce, usually commanding in excess of $1000 for any common date US coin. >>
I like black. I'd love a black slab but it would have to be a coin I really liked (which definitely would not be a common morgan).
If I bought them, it would be solely for a flip.
I think pcgs should make a black slab. If they can make at least 5 different labels for a single, 100,000 mintage set, I dont see why they couldnt have a clear general slab and a black one
<< <i> At what price would you be a buyer? >>
If a mega-lot hypothetically appeared, a good way to distribute 10 of these would be to hold a Dutch Auction. All interested parties submit their absolute top dollar bid, and the coins are distributed to the 10 bidders willing to pay the most. Anyone who wants one bad enough can get one, and the seller maximizes their return. It's fair to everyone.
Most of us saw the UGLY Morgan that sold a couple of months ago for ~$2400. Imagine what some attractive coins might bring.
<< <i>Interesting... and there are a lot of slab collectors around... I would say the dutch auction would likely be your best venue. Cheers, RickO >>
I don't know if that's entirely the case. If you could get one for a good price, wouldn't you buy one...if for no other reason than to resale? I'm just trying to see what kind of general interest there is in an NGC black...is it just the "holder collectors" that care?
I would think the black is a bit more universal, like the doilies. The majority of people like them simply because it's a numismatic curiosity, not that they are all willing to pay up for them, but given the choice between two identical coins, they would prefer the holder that is more "interesting" so-to-speak.
Now, if you had said a hoard of 100 NGC black slabs, that would be different. But I bet you could still average over $500 per slab, even in a quantity of 100. Just my guess, though.
Depends on what any particular collectors perception of what "more interesting" would be. For some it might mean extraordinary aesthetic appeal, others maybe a unique opportunity; yet others might simply have the financial freedom to satisfy an obsessive curiosity without reservation. I believe most collectors have rational limits to what they will do to obtain a tangible object. I've tracked a coin in a PCGS Regency holder that has remained unsold publicly for over 1 year. As much as I prize the holder, I value the coin moreso but even the combination isn't worth the 300% premium the owner wants and won't budge from.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Drunner
<< <i>Texas . . . . . . you have 17 NGC Blacks????????????
Drunner >>
Care to share info for the NGC Black Slab census?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>I now have 17 of them, never paid more than 20% over bid for any. I have been milking this source for years. The shop just doesn't care, bought a bunch of doily's and WTC coins, the later at spot plus a few bucks. I have over 20 2001 WTC ASE's I paid less than $15 for, when silver was $6-8/oz I got charged $10, by their logic no coin should sell under $10 if it is slabbed. Slabbing cost. >>
You can't type this and NOT SHOW US THE PHOTOS.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
<< <i>Texas . . . . . . you have 17 NGC Blacks????????????
Drunner >>
I second that question!
Edit: I actually have a list with 8 names that when it comes time to sell, and it is getting closer, these are the people who wanted them. Now for my few friends that have photos here, please don't.
<< <i>Guys, a few here have seen them, but I don't want them in the census just like I don't want my Texas Nationals in the census. Been burned one to many times. Here is the way I look at it. If I list and show them all the pops will double, but they aren't for sale thus giving a false representation of the market. I had a blow out with Track and Price and Gengerke and don't want to make the same error. If you have questions other than cert numbers, fire away.
Edit: I actually have a list with 8 names that when it comes time to sell, and it is getting closer, these are the people who wanted them. Now for my few friends that have photos here, please don't. >>
Okay, then how about sharing dates, mintmarks, denominations, and grades?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
But my opinion in this: If you someone wants to sell 10, the market would absorb them quickly and easily at $1000+ levels. If you come up with 100 or 500, that's a different story.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend.
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
I am confused.
I'll just back out of this thread . . .
Perhaps a few others who read the above will want to pursue it . . . but I am lost on motivation, accuracy, or secrecy that is presented. I'll live in the real world and wait for more info if given. Hey, the slab collectors would be delighted with the James Bond / Jack Bauer secrecy. It'll only fuel the excitement. Cool stuff.
Drunner
<< <i>I now have 17 of them, never paid more than 20% over bid for any. I have been milking this source for years. The shop just doesn't care, bought a bunch of doily's and WTC coins, the later at spot plus a few bucks. I have over 20 2001 WTC ASE's I paid less than $15 for, when silver was $6-8/oz I got charged $10, by their logic no coin should sell under $10 if it is slabbed. Slabbing cost. >>
Show off!
<< <i>Okay example, I had 4 small 1929 Ty-2's of a bank in North Texas. Pops showed 2 large and 3 small, not knowing the the people that recorded and tracked pops watched the board I stupidly posted them. A week later they were in the pops. The same time I bought them one sold of ha.com for normal 5 note price. Then the pop went to 9 and I went to sell one a month later and could not find a buyer paying pop 5, but pop 10, so never again, period. Whether or not someone believes me I could care less. People here have seen them, they are all different types with exception of 4 classic commems as the person that sold them to my dealer was building a type set back in the day and sent them in himself, or so I am told. >>
Well you wrote if we had questions other than cert numbers to ask away. I asked. So the answer is no? If so, then why say to ask questions?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I'm on the list to get one right???
Just to remind everyone I once posted this here:
<< <i>jJohn Albanese remembered that the black slabs were in production for exactly 2 weeks (5 business days per week) @average 300 slabs per day. That meant 3000 black slabs wer made until they went to the all white slab with the gold foil logo on the inside of the outer shell. That lasted another 1 1/2 weeks or 7 days until the gold foil was moved to the outside of the slab. The production had increased to 500 slabs average per day with the gold foil on the inside of the slab times 7 days or 3500 slabs.
There are probably between 100-150 of each left. >>
<< <i>Can anyone post a picture of what you are talking about or is it super secret, Black Label NGC slab? When were these used by NGC etc. etc........................
Here is a link to the NGC Black Slab census which contains some images. BTW ... the "black" refers to the slab color, not the label color.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>If someone claims to have 17 but won't post a picture (even with cert. numbers obscured), and the entire existing census is 21 coins, I don't believe it. >>
Especially when member astrorat has been diligently working on the surviving census for well over a year.
<< <i>
<< <i>If someone claims to have 17 but won't post a picture (even with cert. numbers obscured), and the entire existing census is 21 coins, I don't believe it. >>
Especially when member astrorat has been diligently working on the surviving census for well over a year. >>
Not that I have any issue with doubt, belief, or conviction...But saying you have 17 when you're trying to maintain the pops at a low level is equally as counterproductive as just posting the certs or types of coins. JMO.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
I wouldn't pay extra for the coin in such a slab.
PCGS should consider replicating these black slabs?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>It's black,it's plastic,it's a slab...
I wouldn't pay extra for the coin in such a slab.
PCGS should consider replicating these black slabs?
There are more differences than just the color. Also, PCGS didn't make them and if PCGS started counterfeiting older NGC slabs, they would be sued. I agree that rare early slabs aren't of interest to everone but I'll bet you have coins in your collection that I wouldn't pay more than melt value for.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Okay example, I had 4 small 1929 Ty-2's of a bank in North Texas. Pops showed 2 large and 3 small, not knowing the the people that recorded and tracked pops watched the board I stupidly posted them. A week later they were in the pops. The same time I bought them one sold of ha.com for normal 5 note price. Then the pop went to 9 and I went to sell one a month later and could not find a buyer paying pop 5, but pop 10, so never again, period. >>
So you were angry that you could not sell your examples at a higher price based on the lower reported population, a population from which you deliberately withheld your examples to maximize your future profit potential. Got it, thanks.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
No Sean, I guess you don't get it? If I own 4 and only 1 is for sale, in my life anyways, why should I get hosed when people think 9 are floating when 3 sure in hell aren't floating out there, but hey, if your P.O'ed I won't show them then you, by your own attitude know why I don't, sir. What if I paid 5 money for them? What sell one and get 1/2 as much. Great logic brother.
Edit: for what it is worth, I am disappointed that some of you would allude that I am lying, you know me better than that. TAMU15 is close, maybe I will take them over to show him, at least he understands that I don't lie, cheat or steal and would keep his word on whether or not just to confirm and not give out specifics. Hell he knows the dealer I get them from! He just dosen't know the dealer has them.
TN
TexasNationals has remarked for years that he has quite a few of these black NGC slabs and frankly, I do believe him. He did not mention this in any boastful way.
I respect his privacy and have privately been pming/discussing this and slabs in general.
He has nothing to gain or lose by admitting what he has and yet holding off giving us any details, for now anyway.
"An Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate those who do."
I have never heard of his hoard of black slabs but if he says he has them, I would bet my whole collection that he does. He is not the kind of man that lies about coins to people on the internet for $hits and grins. If he says it then it is true.
B
<< <i>TexasNationals is a Texas A&M aggie, as am I and here at A&M we have an honor code that goes something like this-
"An Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate those who do."
I have never heard of his hoard of black slabs but if he says he has them, I would bet my whole collection that he does. He is not the kind of man that lies about coins to people on the internet for $hits and grins. If he says it then it is true.
B >>
As an A&M grad, I feel the same way.
Actually that's not accurate, I do like the first gen. but it bugs me they don't fit in the blue boxes right.
I agree with this.Just make the black slab different enough from the NGC rarity to avoid legal problems.Nice,lustrous coins look awesome surrounded by black.
Capitol Plastics paved the way for coin slabs.They used black extensively on their line of holders,well before the advent of the grading services.
I would like to see the Coin World holder with a black insert.The ones I bought years ago have dark green inserts.I like the holder but am not crazy about the color used.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's black,it's plastic,it's a slab...
I wouldn't pay extra for the coin in such a slab.
PCGS should consider replicating these black slabs?
There are more differences than just the color. Also, PCGS didn't make them and if PCGS started counterfeiting older NGC slabs, they would be sued. I agree that rare early slabs aren't of interest to everone but I'll bet you have coins in your collection that I wouldn't pay more than melt value for. >>
If pcgs made black slabs they wouldn't be counterfeiting ngc...ngc can't claim copyright on the color black.
I really think pcgs should consider making a black slab...black really makes a lot of coins pop.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Is it more bizzarre for grown men to scrabble about over some bits of plastic, than it is for them to do it over bits of metal? if so, why? >>
Bizarre-----the dialogue in the thread not the subject matter. I totally get the collecting aspect of it. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's black,it's plastic,it's a slab...
I wouldn't pay extra for the coin in such a slab.
PCGS should consider replicating these black slabs?
There are more differences than just the color. Also, PCGS didn't make them and if PCGS started counterfeiting older NGC slabs, they would be sued. I agree that rare early slabs aren't of interest to everone but I'll bet you have coins in your collection that I wouldn't pay more than melt value for. >>
If pcgs made black slabs they wouldn't be counterfeiting ngc...ngc can't claim copyright on the color black.
I really think pcgs should consider making a black slab...black really makes a lot of coins pop. >>
Agree that PCGS can make their own version of a black slab but "replicating" the black NGC slabs as originally suggested is just plain wrong and PCGS would never do this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's black,it's plastic,it's a slab...
I wouldn't pay extra for the coin in such a slab.
PCGS should consider replicating these black slabs?
There are more differences than just the color. Also, PCGS didn't make them and if PCGS started counterfeiting older NGC slabs, they would be sued. I agree that rare early slabs aren't of interest to everone but I'll bet you have coins in your collection that I wouldn't pay more than melt value for. >>
If pcgs made black slabs they wouldn't be counterfeiting ngc...ngc can't claim copyright on the color black.
I really think pcgs should consider making a black slab...black really makes a lot of coins pop. >>
"Replicating these black slabs" is very different than making a slab that is black.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces