NFL MVP

PowderedH2O

OK... Since the beginning of the season I have just assumed that Aaron Rodgers was the MVP. His passer rating is off the chart and his team is the best team in the NFL. Case closed. But today makes me wonder. Matt Flynn came in and threw for nearly 500 yards and 6 touchdowns against a team that had something to play for. Which makes me wonder... is it Aaron Rodgers or is it the Packers? Hmmm...

Everybody knows I love the Saints. But I don't love the Patriots. I think both Brees and Brady have a strong case. When Brees has been benched in the past, the team sucks. Bad. Until today, Sean Payton's teams were 0-5 on the 17th week of the season. For several of those games, Brees did not play. So, we kinda have an idea that without Brees the Saints aren't all that good. And lets face it, Brees had some pretty awesome passing stats this year leading the Saints to an NFL record in yardage. Tom Brady has played this season with a cast of names that (other than Wes Welker) were on nobody's star list. Yet, he has made Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez the most devastating tight end combo in history. Both the Saints and Pats have well below average defenses, so these teams have HAD to score to win.

Last year for a big game against New England, Matt Flynn came in and had a heck of a night. Let's be honest, Matt Flynn didn't come into the league as Andrew Luck. He was an afterthought. A guy that you can throw in if you have to. He sat on LSU's bench for awhile until everyone else left for the NFL or got suspended. Yet, he came in there and rocked today!

Now, I am not trying to diminish Rodgers' performance this year. It was fantastic! But, my question to you is this: Do you think that the performance of the Packers over the past three weeks (a loss to KC, a win, and a big win with Flynn's huge game) will have a significant impact on the MVP vote? And if so, who gets the nod?

Justacommeman

Rodgers would still be my vote. I would have zero problem if Bree's won it. Flynn made himself a ton of money today. Cassel like money. MJ

Connecticoin

Rodgers, Brees, and Brady should be named co-MVPs.

jay0791

It looked like the Saints could score at will. The panthers took the worst yardage beating in thier history.
Brees and the team looked fantastic.
Sitting Rodgers was the right thing to do if you plan on making the SB. However it wasn't like Peyton manning was gone...no way

I thing Brees just won the award or it will be shared.

hockeyfan9

Brees would be my MVP. I think rodgers is great but he benefits from being on an excellent team!

pitboss

Brady is the most important player to his team.

Without him the team is 8 and 8 at the best which qualifies him as the MVP.

Rogers and Brees are great players but do not make as much difference to their respective teams as Brady does to his.

That is why Brady should be the MVP.

Dboneesq

IMO the last third of the season helped this guy's chances A LOT:

perkdog

Tough Call, I wouldnt be upset if any of the 3 mentioned got it, although I do agree that Brady and Brees are more important to their teams success than Rodgers is.

gumbyfan

I agree that Brees and Brady had great years, but I'm not sure I understand the logic of Rodgers taking a hit because his backup is better than many starters on other teams. Its not like the Packers threw TJ Rubley out there and watched him get those stats.

Rodgers deserves at least a share of the MVP. 45 TDs, 6 INTs in 15 games.

jradke4

cleary i wear my team on my sleve...but lets figure out what the important numbers are for the disscussion

is it: yards, TDs, TD-INT ratio, completions, yards per attempt, QB rating, teams wins/losses?

Brees has the yards, TDs (by one since AR sat the last game), completions, completion % but also attempts.

Rodgers has the QB rating (which happens to have broken the NFL record too), one less TD pass (he did sit out the last game), and less INTs (6 compared to 14). only lost one out for 14 games he started. yes the loss was to KC, but he also didnt lose to the 2-14 Rams or the 4-12 Bucs.

So i would say its pretty close. However, leading the defending SB champs to a 1 loss record when everyone is gunning for you has to play some part in the discussion. which to me would put AR on top.

But you know what, I really dont care. Your Brees can have MVP and my Rodgers and Packers can repeat as SB Champs. Its the SB is what I care about.

rexvos

<< <i>It looked like the Saints could score at will. The panthers took the worst yardage beating in thier history.
Brees and the team looked fantastic.
Sitting Rodgers was the right thing to do if you plan on making the SB. However it wasn't like Peyton manning was gone...no way

I thing Brees just won the award or it will be shared. >>



this is what I thought as well.

rexvos

<< <i>Brady is the most important player to his team.

Without him the team is 8 and 8 at the best which qualifies him as the MVP.

Rogers and Brees are great players but do not make as much difference to their respective teams as Brady does to his.

That is why Brady should be the MVP. >>



Brees does. One year when Brady was out the Pats won 11 games with Cassell. Hate to say it but with your argument Peyton Manning is the MVP.

rexvos

<< <i>cleary i wear my team on my sleve...but lets figure out what the important numbers are for the disscussion

is it: yards, TDs, TD-INT ratio, completions, yards per attempt, QB rating, teams wins/losses?

Brees has the yards, TDs (by one since AR sat the last game), completions, completion % but also attempts.

Rodgers has the QB rating (which happens to have broken the NFL record too), one less TD pass (he did sit out the last game), and less INTs (6 compared to 14). only lost one out for 14 games he started. yes the loss was to KC, but he also didnt lose to the 2-14 Rams or the 4-12 Bucs.

So i would say its pretty close. However, leading the defending SB champs to a 1 loss record when everyone is gunning for you has to play some part in the discussion. which to me would put AR on top.

But you know what, I really dont care. Your Brees can have MVP and my Rodgers and Packers can repeat as SB Champs. Its the SB is what I care about. >>



I agree with this logic. I would rather Brees have another Super Bowl MVP.

Justacommeman

Bree's stats albeit a little better are more similar to Stafford's then to Rodgers. Brady's stats are also the same more or less to Bree's.

Rodgers 45 TDs, 6 INTs and off the chart QB rating should be enough to win the MVP.

Each of these QB's are super valuable to their teams. However, for example if Stafford was on Green Bay , Bree's on the Lions , Brady on New Orleans and Rodger's on the Patriot's I think all the teams records would be approximately the same as they are now.

The Stafford illustration was only to demonstrate his stats were very similar to that of Bree's and Brady. Not to put him up for the MVP. I think Calvin Johnson should be the highest vote getter for non QB's.

MJ

hammered

Flynn's game was a fluke, a feat he would not come close to duplicating if we saw him play more games.
The argument that Rodgers has a superior offense to work with is not true.
GB has an extremely weak running game (an injured Starks and Ryan Grant), which puts more pressure on Rodgers to get it done through the air, and he delivers every weak.
Saints have Graham, Colston, & Sproles (out of backfield), and those three are better than GB's best three.
The Saints have dominated their opponents the last 7 weeks, but GB has done it all year.
Brady has been money most of the year, but I am bothered by his weak first halves, something that might bite NE in the playoffs.
And NE hasn't dominated teams the way GB has.
GB offensively is all Rodgers, and the reason for the 15-1 record, he deserves the MVP.
Brees 2, Brady 3

swartz1

the fact that he broke the record is going to be big with the voters...

also the fact that he played all the games should put him over Rodgers...

I could see an argument for Co-MVP's...

illinifan912

3 nfl records with one that hasn't been broken in over 20 years, Brees should be mvp.

Justacommeman

<< <i>3 nfl records with one that hasn't been broken in over 20 years, Brees should be mvp. >>



FWIW Brady also broke Marino's yardage record this season and Stafford was right there as well. All over 5,000 yds. Rodgers broke Manning's single season QB rating this year. Highest ever.

MJ

Connecticoin

<< <i>

<< <i>3 nfl records with one that hasn't been broken in over 20 years, Brees should be mvp. >>



FWIW Brady also broke Marino's yardage record this season and Stafford was right there as well. All over 5,000 yds. Rodgers broke Manning's single season QB rating this year. Highest ever.

MJ >>



Yeah, it's almost like comparing McGuire and Maris. Marino set his record when the defenses could still maul receivers and quarterbacks.

gumbyfan

<< <i>Flynn's game was a fluke, a feat he would not come close to duplicating if we saw him play more games. >>



I wouldn't go quite that far. While I would agree that the anyone having almost 500 yards and 6 TDs is somewhat of a fluke, I would also argue that he has a ton of talent.

Last year when he started against the Patriots at Foxborough when Rodgers was out with a concussion, he had a very good game and came within some poor clock management from winning the game. He was 24-37 for over 250 yards and 3 TDs. Not bad against the Pats at Foxborough off the bench.

He's not a fly-by-night backup that is just carrying a clipboard. He led LSU to a national championship when finally given a chance to start his senior year. Maybe all he needs is a chance to play.

illinifan912

wow passer rating record, that record just needs a few games above 140 and the rest to be over 100 compared to the yards record where you need to continually have alot of yards a game for an entire season

Justacommeman

<< <i>wow passer rating record, that record just needs a few games above 140 and the rest to be over 100 compared to the yards record where you need to continually have alot of yards a game for an entire season >>



Good point if 5000 throwing yards was such a though task these days. However, this season Bree's had plenty of company join him in the sacred 5,000 yard hot tub club this season. The record means a little less in my opinion when so many crash the party. The fact that Rodgers led a team to a 15-1 record and throw only 6 int's against 40+ TDS and broke the all time season QB rating rating seems like there is enough seperation to squeak Rodgers past Bree's and Brady. That being said, I would not be upset if any of them won it. MJ

rexvos

<< <i>

<< <i>wow passer rating record, that record just needs a few games above 140 and the rest to be over 100 compared to the yards record where you need to continually have alot of yards a game for an entire season >>



Good point if 5000 throwing yards was such a though task these days. However, this season Bree's had plenty of company join him in the sacred 5,000 yard hot tub club this season. The record means a little less in my opinion when so many crash the party. The fact that Rodgers led a team to a 15-1 record and throw only 6 int's against 40+ TDS and broke the all time season QB rating rating seems like there is enough seperation to squeak Rodgers past Bree's and Brady. That being said, I would not be upset if any of them won it. MJ >>



do not belittle what Brees did. He averaged 90+ more yards a game than the rest of the league. He also broke 5000 yards a year ago, so he is the only one to do it twice. Rodgers deserves MVP as much as Brees in my opinion so whoever wins it I am fine with. Just as long as the Saints get their shot and beat them in the rematch I will be happy. Quarterback rating is a goofy stat. I think the one thing that could set Rodgers apart though is the TD-INT ratio.

gumbyfan

<< <i>do not belittle what Brees did. He averaged 90+ more yards a game than the rest of the league. >>



Ummm...how do you get to 90+ more yards a game? Are you taking Brees vs the field and throwing in the likes of Curtis Painter and Tim Tebow into the stat?

Brees - 342 yds/game
Brady - 327 yds/game
Stafford - 315 yds/game
Rodgers - 310 yds/game
Manning - 308 yds/game

How about we look at efficiency?

Rodgers - 9.25 yds/attempt
Brady - 8.57 yds/attempt
Manning - 8.38 yds/attempt
Brees - 8.33 yds/attempt
Stafford - 7.60 yds/attempt

rexvos

<< <i>

<< <i>do not belittle what Brees did. He averaged 90+ more yards a game than the rest of the league. >>



Ummm...how do you get to 90+ more yards a game? Are you taking Brees vs the field and throwing in the likes of Curtis Painter and Tim Tebow into the stat?

Brees - 342 yds/game
Brady - 327 yds/game
Stafford - 315 yds/game
Rodgers - 310 yds/game
Manning - 308 yds/game

How about we look at efficiency?

Rodgers - 9.25 yds/attempt
Brady - 8.57 yds/attempt
Manning - 8.38 yds/attempt
Brees - 8.33 yds/attempt
Stafford - 7.60 yds/attempt >>



yes the nfl average. Marino was like 75+ yards better and Brees was like 94+ yards better or something like that. It was a stat they flashed during the Monday night game when Brees broke it.

illinifan912

the td to int ratio, yes its a stat bur when you throw these short passes because few d's can defend against their 5 wideouts its easy to have the low ints

hhmag70

<< <i>the td to int ratio, yes its a stat bur when you throw these short passes because few d's can defend against their 5 wideouts its easy to have the low ints >>



If it were that easy to explain every team in the league would line up 5 wideouts.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>wow passer rating record, that record just needs a few games above 140 and the rest to be over 100 compared to the yards record where you need to continually have alot of yards a game for an entire season >>



Good point if 5000 throwing yards was such a though task these days. However, this season Bree's had plenty of company join him in the sacred 5,000 yard hot tub club this season. The record means a little less in my opinion when so many crash the party. The fact that Rodgers led a team to a 15-1 record and throw only 6 int's against 40+ TDS and broke the all time season QB rating rating seems like there is enough seperation to squeak Rodgers past Bree's and Brady. That being said, I would not be upset if any of them won it. MJ >>



I am happy with Brees, Brady or Rodgers winning the award, having said that, I don't know why everyone is getting Rodgers credit for the week 17 win. It's not just you, I have seen it on TV, in other forums, other posters, when talking stats. If a QB doesn't play....he can't get any credit for the victory.

Tabe

<< <i>Yeah, it's almost like comparing McGuire and Maris. Marino set his record when the defenses could still maul receivers and quarterbacks. >>


NFL QBs average 15 yards a game passing more than they did in '84 when Marino set the record. Despite how it looks, this is not some "juiced ball" era for passing.

Tabe

jradke4

rodgers was 14-1. in his one loss to KC he had a rating of 80 and threw 1 TD and 0 INTs. as for the dink and dunk about AR how does that explain his 9+yards per attempt?? that doesnt hold much water.

brees in his loss against the 2-14 Rams threw 1 TD and 2 INTS, 1 of which was returned for a TD, for a rating of 73. brees in his loss against the 4-12 Bucs threw 1 TD and 3 INTS for a rating of 70.8.

jradke4

<< <i>the td to int ratio, yes its a stat bur when you throw these short passes because few d's can defend against their 5 wideouts its easy to have the low ints >>



what else from a bears fan. you look like an idoit when you dont know what you are talking about.

TD pass by yards for Brees and Rodgers

Brees

23 under 10 yards
11 from 10-25
12 over 25 (of those 2 were over 50)

Rodgers

23 under 10
9 10-25
13 over 25 (7 of which were over 50)

lets look at reality not what you want to preceive!! i am sure you remember that 55 yard to Nelson on Christmas. that is how nearly all of his passes over 50 yet, they werent short passes turned into big gains. they were bombs.

stown

<< <i>I am happy with Brees, Brady or Rodgers winning the award, having said that, I don't know why everyone is getting Rodgers credit for the week 17 win. It's not just you, I have seen it on TV, in other forums, other posters, when talking stats. If a QB doesn't play....he can't get any credit for the victory. >>



+1

fiveniner

My pick is Drew Brees.

Egger

Rodgers 122.5 Passer Rating and less int's


Brees and Brady have run games to fall back on


6th Saints
20th Patriots
27th Packers

pitboss

They can give the MVP to whoever they want but the super bowl MVP trophy goes to Tom Brady.

JasP24

Aaron Rodgers in a landslide.

All the top candidates were pass heavy, but you look at the Packers, whose defense did not play well and was unsettled at RB. Every game teams knew Rodgers was going to throw a BUNCH and he still killed the competition.

Brees had an excellent stable of RB's keeping defenses honest.

Brady, was in a similar position to Rodgers (weak defense and not much of a running game), but he didn't dominate the way Rodgers did this year...Not to mention how good Rodgers is scrambling out of the pocket.

Using Matt Flynn as a reason to discredit Rodgers is not a fair way to view him. He sat out because the Packers had clinched. Brees AND Brady would have done the same if they had clinched the #1 seed prior to their game.

I'd bet any amount that Rodgers wins the award, and it will be well deserved.

Jason

MeteoriteGuy

Nobody was using Flynn to discredit Rogers. I noted Rogers was not 16-1, as is often said, cause he was not.

gumbyfan

<< <i>Nobody was using Flynn to discredit Rogers. I noted Rogers was not 16-1, as is often said, cause he was not. >>



I don't think anyone said Rogers was 16-1. A few people may have stated that Rodgers led the Packers to a 15-1 record, but I didn't see anyone say Rogers was 16-1.

Also, for what it's worth, Rodgers had the headset on for Week 17 and was calling the offensive plays for the Packers. So, although Rodgers wasn't under center, I would argue that he still "led the team" to that 15-1 record.

MeteoriteGuy

I meant 15-1 obviously. Rogers was 14-1. Of course, maybe we can give Tebow credit for that game also.

Edit to add: If anyone was using Flynn to discredit Rogers they would say something like, well Flynn led the team with over 500 yards passing...no one is saying that. But if you suggesting people have not been saying Rogers led the team to a 15-1 record you have not been listening to sports radio or reading comments in this or other forums. 14-1 is very good and hardly an insult, but 15-1 Rogers was not.

PowderedH2O

The reason I even came up with this topic was that I DID hear people on sports radio discussing how the Packers didn't miss a beat without Rodgers. And to me, if your team is so good that it doesn't miss you, then it brings your value into question. Now, that being said, Rodgers had one amazing season and if he won MVP I would have no arguments whatsoever. But, I definitely could see how voters could see the other side.

gumbyfan

<< <i>I meant 15-1 obviously. Rogers was 14-1. Of course, maybe we can give Tebow credit for that game also.

Edit to add: If anyone was using Flynn to discredit Rogers they would say something like, well Flynn led the team with over 500 yards passing...no one is saying that. But if you suggesting people have not been saying Rogers led the team to a 15-1 record you have not been listening to sports radio or reading comments in this or other forums. 14-1 is very good and hardly an insult, but 15-1 Rogers was not. >>





<< <i>I don't think anyone said Rogers was 16-1. A few people may have stated that Rodgers led the Packers to a 15-1 record, but I didn't see anyone say Rogers was 16-1.

Also, for what it's worth, Rodgers had the headset on for Week 17 and was calling the offensive plays for the Packers. So, although Rodgers wasn't under center, I would argue that he still "led the team" to that 15-1 record. >>



Not sure where your Tebow reference makes any sense.

Nobody is saying Flynn led the team with over 500 yards passing because he only had 480. He was also named the NFC Offensive Player of the Week. I'm guessing it was a little more than just the offensive system that got him that distinction.

Lastly, here's a list of notable quarterbacks in Green Bay Packers history. Feel free to reference it in the future:

Bart Starr
Brett Favre
Aaron Rodgers

I am not aware of any Packers quarterbacks named Rogers. I tried to point that out in a subtle fashion in my previous post, but since it didn't catch, I thought I'd just be a little more clear now to hopefully help.

MeteoriteGuy

No, I think you should try acting more like a dick to prove some point. I have not insulted Rodgers or the like.

gumbyfan

<< <i>No, I think you should try acting more like a dick to prove some point. I have not insulted Rodgers or the like. >>



Congrats! You got it right!

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>No, I think you should try acting more like a dick to prove some point. I have not insulted Rodgers or the like. >>



Congrats! You got it right! >>



Sweet, the world can once again start spinning.

JasP24

<< <i>The reason I even came up with this topic was that I DID hear people on sports radio discussing how the Packers didn't miss a beat without Rodgers. And to me, if your team is so good that it doesn't miss you, then it brings your value into question. Now, that being said, Rodgers had one amazing season and if he won MVP I would have no arguments whatsoever. But, I definitely could see how voters could see the other side. >>



This was the initial info i was alluding to. Honestly had only skimmed the rest of this thread, and wasn't even responding to you MeteoriteGuy. And H20 isn;t the only one. Quite a few of the talking heads around the NFL, mainly the ones who favor Brees, have also used this as a negative towards Rodgers.

My point was, the reason Flynn even got in the game is because Rodgers was good enough, and made few enough mistakes that the Packers were in that position. Who's to say Drew Brees' backup couldn't have done the same thing? Unless I am missing something, if i compared, player-for-player 11 vs. 11 the Saints offense vs. Packers Offesne, the Saints have overall stronger offense.

Green Bay Pro Bowlers- Rodgers, Kuhn, Jennings
Saints Pro Bowlers- Brees, Graham, Bushrod, Evans, Nicks

That's 3 lineman vs. 0...Then throw in the Saints outstanding backfield, and to me the supporting cast is stronger in NO. So why didn't Brees go 14-1 and get to rest the last game? IMO, the answer is simple. Rodgers outdueled him in Game 1, and Brees threw 5 INT's vs. 2 TD's in the losses to two TERRIBLE teams TB and St. Louis.

Still an GREAT year for Brees. I'm sure he will be the 2nd Team All-Pro. But bottom line, Rodgers was just a little better. And the voting will show it.

Jason

mlbfan2

<< <i>NFL QBs average 15 yards a game passing more than they did in '84 when Marino set the record. Despite how it looks, this is not some "juiced ball" era for passing.

Tabe >>



It's 23.8 yards per game (per team) according to pro-football-reference.com.

2011 - 229.7
1984 - 205.9
1977 - 141.9 (wow)

thunderpower

rogers.

Tabe

<< <i>

<< <i>NFL QBs average 15 yards a game passing more than they did in '84 when Marino set the record. Despite how it looks, this is not some "juiced ball" era for passing.

Tabe >>



It's 23.8 yards per game (per team) according to pro-football-reference.com.

2011 - 229.7
1984 - 205.9
1977 - 141.9 (wow) >>


The numbers they showed on TV had 1984 as being 215, not 205, hence my comment. If it's really 205, that's definitely a big difference - but still only 400 yards per year per QB, not 1000 or something.

Tabe

Tabe

<< <i>

<< <i>NFL QBs average 15 yards a game passing more than they did in '84 when Marino set the record. Despite how it looks, this is not some "juiced ball" era for passing.

Tabe >>



It's 23.8 yards per game (per team) according to pro-football-reference.com.

2011 - 229.7
1984 - 205.9
1977 - 141.9 (wow) >>


Digging into this a little more, it looks like INTs are down 31% (2.9% of passes vs 4.2% in 1984) despite Yd/Attempt being unchanged (7.2 in 2011 vs 7.1 in 1984). Actual INTs are down (1.0 per game vs 1.3). Attempts are up (34.0 vs 32.0). So, what it all boils down to is that teams are throwing a bit more often, but for the same yards as before - and are taking care of the ball a lot better when they do throw. While a lot of that is probably a result of there being a LOT more short passes thrown these days, a good part of that is also probably the rules on defense being tighter than before. And I guess that change in rules is enough to allow for perfect storm seasons like this year despite the league actually being sub-1984 in passing just 5 years ago (2006).

Tabe

JasP24

A pre-cursor to the MVP vote.

AP All-Pro voting announced today:

Aaron Rodgers was the quarterback for the first time, easily beating New Orleans' Drew Brees, 47 1/2 to 2 1/2. Rodgers led Green Bay to a league-best 15-1 record, maintaining the brilliance he showed in taking the Packers to the Super Bowl title last February.

47.5 to 2.5= landslide

PowderedH2O

That probably will settle it then. Only once that I could tell did the AP vote someone as their first team QB and give a different QB the MVP (1987 - All-Pro Joe Montana - MVP John Elway). So, Rodgers most likely gets the award. I have no problem with that.