<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it. >>
<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it. >>
I would sure like to see an old photo of the door with that bell on it.
<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it. >>
My thought too. >>
I think a period picture of the door with the rig on it and a letter from a very trusted historian/letter from the mint/whatever just something besides a piece of wood that says it was installed at the Philly Mint. Something like this needs rock solid providence.
<< <i>THE FINAL PIECE IS AN 1800S SMALL MEDAL THAT READS: U.S. MINT PHILA 1832 WITH THE LORDS PRAYER ON THE BACK - ORIGINAL RED RIBBON - MEDAL MEASURES 1/2 INCH IN DIAMETER. >>
Actually, I believe those pieces date to 1903, despite the "1832" date on them. Neat little things. I found one in a bulk lot one time.
And the bell, if the provenance is true, is ... wow. Way off the scale on the Cool-O-Meter. 5,000 megafonzies, at least.
But I too instinctively took that provenance with the proverbial grain of salt. Still, that old handwritten tag looks authentic to the period.
Not a fan of the "AUTHENTICITY" evidence or the seller's feedback.
However, if BOTH were stellar AND I had a crap load of disposable income, not only would I buy it but I would have it custom installed at my house! Very cool.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Wait a minute! I DO think I see the doorbell in that picture of the mint. Look real hard! >>
Is this one of those things where you get me to stare at the screen a really long time, until my nose is almost touchin' the glass, and then you come up behind me and moosh my face into the monitor?
Spring Garden St...they just managed to crop out William Penn holding his...
I took many math classes in that building.
They always had a security guard at the entrance to the basement which had a sealed gate at the entrance. There were no classes or offices down there. I wonder what treasures they were guarding. Rainbow toned 1921 Peace dollars I bet.
The note says the "old" U.S. Mint which refers to the original 1792 structure. Does anyone have a large enough pic of it taken before 1902? All I have is one taken by Stewart just before it was torn down.
Edited to add;
The only thing I can confirm is that the main hallway was in fact painted white. I did find a picture showing the mint at the correct time, however the sun shade of the cigar store is (in)conveniently blocking a lot of that door way.
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
I would use the term "reputedly" to describe that bell being in the Philadelphia Mint in 1902.
This was too important a piece of history to let it disappear again for another 40 years plus without hardcore investigation and without making sure this gets into a proper coin related museum in the future so I took a stab at it even understanding that I could be gambling my money away so I negotiated a price of an even $2000.00
I suspect that this bell and wood description was in the US Mint building in Philly prior to the new building that was completed in 1969. remember visiting the old US Mint building in Philly and vaguely remember something about this bell exhibit but it is very faint memory. Too bad Harry Forman isn't around anymore as he would have remembered. There are enough old-timers that might remember this bell prior to its removal around 1969.
I was going to elicit the help of Roger Burdette and or any other exonmumia researcher that to a get to the bottom of this. Perhaps Dave Bowers? suggestions are welcomed. You don't have to bombard me with comments like "i am nuts." My wife already took care of that.
In my signature line is a photo of the US Mint in San Francisco brass plaque (dated 1894) reputedly hanging on the doorway of the US Mint section of the US Mint building in San Francisco prior to the earthquake of 1907 (remember, the Federal building was shared by several US government agencies) and was reputedly removed when the building went through extensive renovation in the aftrmath of the 1907 earthquake which saw this building still standing as one of the few survivors. During the renovations, the old removed parts of the US Mint were simply trashed for anyone to grab at will.
<< <i>I was going to elicit the help of Roger Burdette and or any other exonmumia researcher that to a get to the bottom of this. Perhaps Dave Bowers? suggestions are welcomed. >>
I would suggest first an expert who could verify when and perhaps where the bell was made.
The bell might be even older than we think. I don't see any patina. Perhaps it's been cleaned, but that suggests to me the bell was made with English silver-bronze alloy rather than the no-silver bronze alloy Americans commonly used in the 19th century.
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
Interesting artifact, if provable, but not really numismatic. The pillars from the Second Mint still exist, but they don't belong in the Redbook.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Why does the seller have private auctions sometimes? Odd that. Anyway...
I guess the first thing I would do is ask some one who is an expert in bells or the manufacturing of old bells what they thought of it. Would not a bell have some maker's mark on it?
I also wonder if a paint chip could be tested to figure anything out. It must contain lead in the paint at the very least? Or some hint that could assist in having a time period the last coat was put on.
If the bell was used for many decades would the strike hanging in the bell have caused more wear? Yes I see some wear but one has to wonder what a bell looks like after 40+ years of constant usage...
How the bell was attached to what is holding it seems oh so crude. I would have thought the connection would have been better or perhaps it was repaired?
I wonder why the chain has paint on it? I can understand painting the wall mounted piece that contains the pulley part. And the chain itself barely looks like it would cleanly fit through the pulley piece without some interference or significant wear... Either way.. when something gets painted you either go around it or paint the whole thing. I cannot figure out the rhyme or reason why some areas have paint and others showing nothing what so ever.
The sign used paper.. I wonder what a close examination of that by an expert would reveal? Well if it is a fake or something related to being fake it is very very creative.
However this seller is VERY creative when making attributions. If Lurch or Gomez had ever existed, I wonder if they would have been the bell ringers if it would have brought stronger money.......
If it's real, it's a bonanza. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
<< <i>I believe it's legit, from the second Mint. I also think it would be very hard to conclusively prove. The first and second Mint were torn up, no one cared, and people in the street could grab whatever they wanted. >>
Yep. My sentiments exactly.
The label, handwriting, and sentimental relic-hunting character of the object are all appropriate to the period.
There is a small group of people that enjoy original Mint relics and association items. First Mint items are much easier to sell than those related to the 2nd or 3rd Philadelphia Mints.
Fantasy items/fakes of Mint stuff do exist, but I don't believe this is such an item. I have seen inauthentic Mint related items posted here before, however.
Comments
Paperboy ?
<< <i>I was just trying to think of who would be ringing the door bell at the mint ? >>
My guess would be all visitors. They couldn't just have people walking in at will.
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<< <i>OK Ill put in $50 if we want to get together and buy it and give it to Dave Bowers as a bell for his office. >>
I'll match it.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
C'MON. Its fifty bucks. lets buy the thing and send it to Dave in appreciation for all he has done for US
Lance.
On the same token, if this can be authenticated and verified, the BIN could prove to be very low. Who knows ?
<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it.
My thought too.
I think the term that comes to mind is.....alledgedly. A lot of 'representations' with that sellers stuff.
caveat emptor.
Trolling for suckers?
<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it.
I would sure like to see an old photo of the door with that bell on it.
......I collect old stuff......
<< <i>
<< <i>That seems like very thin authentication that it was used at the mint to me. Sorry but I checked the sellers feedback and am not impressed with it.
My thought too. >>
I think a period picture of the door with the rig on it and a letter from a very trusted historian/letter from the mint/whatever just something besides a piece of wood that says it was installed at the Philly Mint. Something like this needs rock solid providence.
<< <i>THE FINAL PIECE IS AN 1800S SMALL MEDAL THAT READS: U.S. MINT PHILA 1832 WITH THE LORDS PRAYER ON THE BACK - ORIGINAL RED RIBBON - MEDAL MEASURES 1/2 INCH IN DIAMETER. >>
Actually, I believe those pieces date to 1903, despite the "1832" date on them. Neat little things. I found one in a bulk lot one time.
And the bell, if the provenance is true, is ... wow. Way off the scale on the Cool-O-Meter. 5,000 megafonzies, at least.
But I too instinctively took that provenance with the proverbial grain of salt. Still, that old handwritten tag looks authentic to the period.
However, if BOTH were stellar AND I had a crap load of disposable income, not only would I buy it but I would have it custom installed at my house! Very cool.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Garrow
<< <i>Wait a minute! I DO think I see the doorbell in that picture of the mint. Look real hard! >>
Is this one of those things where you get me to stare at the screen a really long time, until my nose is almost touchin' the glass, and then you come up behind me and moosh my face into the monitor?
Spring Garden St...they just managed to crop out William Penn holding his...
I took many math classes in that building.
They always had a security guard at the entrance to the basement which had a sealed gate at the entrance. There were no classes or offices down there. I wonder what treasures they were guarding. Rainbow toned 1921 Peace dollars I bet.
Does anyone have a large enough pic of it taken before 1902? All I have is one taken by Stewart just before it was torn down.
Edited to add;
The only thing I can confirm is that the main hallway was in fact painted white.
I did find a picture showing the mint at the correct time, however the sun shade of the cigar store is (in)conveniently blocking a lot of that door way.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
This was too important a piece of history to let it disappear again for another 40 years plus without hardcore investigation and without making sure this gets into a proper coin related museum in the future so I took a stab at it even understanding that I could be gambling my money away so I negotiated a price of an even $2000.00
I suspect that this bell and wood description was in the US Mint building in Philly prior to the new building that was completed in 1969. remember visiting the old US Mint building in Philly and vaguely remember something about this bell exhibit but it is very faint memory. Too bad Harry Forman isn't around anymore as he would have remembered. There are enough old-timers that might remember this bell prior to its removal around 1969.
I was going to elicit the help of Roger Burdette and or any other exonmumia researcher that to a get to the bottom of this. Perhaps Dave Bowers? suggestions are welcomed. You don't have to bombard me with comments like "i am nuts." My wife already took care of that.
In my signature line is a photo of the US Mint in San Francisco brass plaque (dated 1894) reputedly hanging on the doorway of the US Mint section of the US Mint building in San Francisco prior to the earthquake of 1907 (remember, the Federal building was shared by several US government agencies) and was reputedly removed when the building went through extensive renovation in the aftrmath of the 1907 earthquake which saw this building still standing as one of the few survivors. During the renovations, the old removed parts of the US Mint were simply trashed for anyone to grab at will.
<< <i>I was going to elicit the help of Roger Burdette and or any other exonmumia researcher that to a get to the bottom of this. Perhaps Dave Bowers? suggestions are welcomed. >>
I would suggest first an expert who could verify when and perhaps where the bell was made.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Coins for sale at link below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TyJbuBJf37WZ2KT19
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I am grateful it went to someone here (who knows what he's talking about) and not some yahoo that will exploit it.
peacockcoins
The first and second Mint were torn up, no one cared, and people in the street could grab whatever they wanted.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
I guess the first thing I would do is ask some one who is an expert in bells or the
manufacturing of old bells what they thought of it. Would not a bell have some maker's
mark on it?
I also wonder if a paint chip could be tested to figure anything out. It must contain
lead in the paint at the very least? Or some hint that could assist in having a time
period the last coat was put on.
If the bell was used for many decades would the strike hanging in the bell have
caused more wear? Yes I see some wear but one has to wonder what a bell looks
like after 40+ years of constant usage...
How the bell was attached to what is holding it seems oh so crude. I would have
thought the connection would have been better or perhaps it was repaired?
I wonder why the chain has paint on it? I can understand painting the wall mounted
piece that contains the pulley part. And the chain itself barely looks like it would
cleanly fit through the pulley piece without some interference or significant wear... Either way.. when something gets painted you either go around it or paint
the whole thing. I cannot figure out the rhyme or reason why some areas have
paint and others showing nothing what so ever.
The sign used paper.. I wonder what a close examination of that by an expert
would reveal? Well if it is a fake or something related to being fake it is very very creative.
I look forward to any updates!
However this seller is VERY creative when making attributions. If Lurch or Gomez had ever existed, I wonder if they would have been the bell ringers if it would have brought stronger money.......
If it's real, it's a bonanza. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
<< <i>I believe it's legit, from the second Mint. I also think it would be very hard to conclusively prove. The first and second Mint were torn up, no one cared, and people in the street could grab whatever they wanted. >>
Yep. My sentiments exactly.
The label, handwriting, and sentimental relic-hunting character of the object are all appropriate to the period.
There is a small group of people that enjoy original Mint relics and association items. First Mint items are much easier to sell than those related to the 2nd or 3rd Philadelphia Mints.
Fantasy items/fakes of Mint stuff do exist, but I don't believe this is such an item. I have seen inauthentic Mint related items posted here before, however.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana