2011-S 25th ASE

Absolution

I have a newb question, why is this coin so special in the set? I was originally thinking the 2 that would be special were the Reverse Proof and the No mintage coin. Won't they be making more of the coin that looks like this S?

Bochiman

Go through the SAE history and find another "S" mint marked bullion coin.
Once you realize you can't do it, and you see all the mintages for the bullion coins, and then see the mintage for this one, you will understand why it is special (to the SAE bullion collectors).

19Lyds

While its not the 1st time an S Mint Mark has appeared on a Silver Eagle, it is the 2st time that an S Mint Mark has appeared on an "uncirculated" Silver Eagle. Prior issues were from the West Point Facility and carried a W Mint Mark. 2006-W, 2007-W, 2008-W, 2011-W.

The San Francisco facility has never been used to produce Uncirculated Silver Eagles in the past and was only recently used to manufacture overflow mintages of uncirculated bullion coins. The US Mint is required by law to produce the bullion coins to "public demand". Recent spikes in public interest for silver bullion has caused production of the bullion coins at the West Point Facility (the only facility to produce these coins since year 2000) to be overloaded. The excess was licked up by the San Francisco Facility.

Those coins were shipped in 500 piece boxes that carried identification that they were produced at Sanb Francisco and as such, TPG's began slabbing bullion coins from that facility as 2011-(S).

..

Despite the obvious marketing factor, the coins did enjoy some popularity.

With the announcement of the 25th Anniversary Sets and the introduction of thhe S Mint Masrk on one of the San Francisco produced coins, the S Mint was finally solidified as a bonafide variety for the Silver Eagle Collector without having to swallow the "because we said it was minted at San Francisco" story of the 2011-(S) coins.

As it turns out, not only were the S Mint marked coins produced at San Francisco but ALL of the bullion coins in the set were produced there as well. This has been "validated" by Tom Jurkowsky who is an oficial spokesman for the US Mint. Unfortunately, the COA's (Certificate of Authenticity) were all printed "before" the decision to use only SF Bullion coins in the set was made.

I'm of the opinion that EVERY coin within this set was produced SPECIFICALLY for the set and not pulled from existing inventories to "assemble" a set. In my mind, this makes then entire 5 coin set a very special, low mintage, set which should enjoy some tidy premiums in the future.

Does this help?

RedHerring

<< <i>While its not the 1st time an S Mint Mark has appeared on a Silver Eagle... >>



EDIT: My mistake sorry.

Absolution

That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though

chipper10

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>



Yes but more "S" mint marked coins in the future will probably bode well for this coin because it is extremely unlikely that there will ever be another issue of 100K or less of said coin. Guess what that means-everyone who wants one will want the rarest date----2011 and the other dates will be "advertising" on behalf of this one.

Dice21

19Lyds.....great job explaining

ricko

Great explanation... Cheers, RickO

Speedie

<< <i>

<< <i>While its not the 1st time an S Mint Mark has appeared on a Silver Eagle... >>



It is the 1st time an S Mint Mark has appeared on a Silver Eagle.

No other ASE has ever had an S Mint Mark. The 2011-S stands alone. >>



The proof ASEs were produced at San Francisco between 1986 and 1992.

rodzm

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>



Very right...but looking at past hisotry with the Annicersary sets they will want to make it a special one. The RP coin already seems to be a standard coin for the Anniversary sets. My prediction is that the mint will do a bullion coin, Reverse Proof (P mintmarked), a Proof (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (S mintmarked) and a burnished coin (Denver mintmarked).

Draped10c

<< <i>

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>



Very right...but looking at past hisotry with the Annicersary sets they will want to make it a special one. The RP coin already seems to be a standard coin for the Anniversary sets. My prediction is that the mint will do a bullion coin, Reverse Proof (P mintmarked), a Proof (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (S mintmarked) and a burnished coin (Denver mintmarked). >>



I'm not totally serious on this, but what about a gilded (D mm), and colorized (reg proof, pick your mm) as the new additions to the 30th set. I see the possibility of artificial rarities and gimmicks.

Why not come up with a way for a giant ten coin set.

PinkFloyd

They might only have an "S" in a presumed 30th set if they continue to make overflow Eagles at the San Francisco Mint. I took the inclusion of the "S" in this year's set to appease collectors who felt cheated with the lack of mintmarks produced even as coins were made in SF.

But if they do produce an "S" again I have serious doubts that it will come in below 100k as the Mint got a lot of flack for the 5-hr sellout this year.

CCC2010

The price guide for this 2011-S in MS70 is $600....lower than the Reverse Proof 70 ($700). Anybody thinks this will change in the future in terms of the price going much above that of the Reverse proof

ajman

Great analysis 19Lyds. Thanks for posting that.

Absolution

Thanks 19Lyds, that was extremely helpful. Copied and pasted it to save as a document for my records, hope you don't mind. I did keep your name for credit as you wrote it \^^//

jmski52

19Lyds, you are saying that all of the bullion silver eagles in the set were done in San Francisco, for the sets. You only mean the "S" and the (S) coins, correct? Not the "W" or the "P" coins, right?

On another note, Ken Potter is saying in NN that there are some of the "plain" SF coins that have the same tailfeather mark as the Anniversary Set coins. Does that contradict the idea that the set coins were done in a special batch?

I'm of the opinion that EVERY coin within this set was produced SPECIFICALLY for the set and not pulled from existing inventories to "assemble" a set. In my mind, this makes then entire 5 coin set a very special, low mintage, set which should enjoy some tidy premiums in the future.

Frankly, I agree with your opinion. I don't know why people always try to nitpick die markers or die chatter that don't amount to a significant difference in the coin itself. Unless someone else from the Mint directly contradicts Tom Jurkowsky or someone like Captn Henway or Deepcoin have some relevant info, I'd say that it is what it is.

Coinsponge

<< <i>19Lyds, you are saying that all of the bullion silver eagles in the set were done in San Francisco, for the sets. You only mean the "S" and the (S) coins, correct? Not the "W" or the "P" coins, right?

On another note, Ken Potter is saying in NN that there are some of the "plain" SF coins that have the same tailfeather mark as the Anniversary Set coins. Does that contradict the idea that the set coins were done in a special batch?

I'm of the opinion that EVERY coin within this set was produced SPECIFICALLY for the set and not pulled from existing inventories to "assemble" a set. In my mind, this makes then entire 5 coin set a very special, low mintage, set which should enjoy some tidy premiums in the future.

Frankly, I agree with your opinion. I don't know why people always try to nitpick die markers or die chatter that don't amount to a significant difference in the coin itself. Unless someone else from the Mint directly contradicts Tom Jurkowsky or someone like Captn Henway or Deepcoin have some relevant info, I'd say that it is what it is. >>




I still have a slight problem with attributing a bullion coin to a particular mint when it does not even have a mint mark. It adds a bit of confusion to the collector. I think the KISS principle should apply in coin collecting but I don't see the trend maintaining that.

derryb

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>


It does mean that there will not be any more 2011 S coins. The supply is limited to the 25th ASE set.
Even if they mint 3 million 2012 S coins there will still only be 100K 2011 S coins.

derryb

<< <i>19Lyds, you are saying that all of the bullion silver eagles in the set were done in San Francisco, for the sets. You only mean the "S" and the (S) coins, correct? Not the "W" or the "P" coins, right? >>


It's what he said but I don't believe it is what he meant. While we know the S m/m and I believe the no m/m came from SF, it is my understanding that the W unc set coin was minted at West Point and probably came from the big pile they minted for individual collector sales. If they did in fact do a special press run on the W uncircs., maybe there is a unique die marker on them. Anyone checked?




<< <i>On another note, Ken Potter is saying in NN that there are some of the "plain" SF coins that have the same tailfeather mark as the Anniversary Set coins. Does that contradict the idea that the set coins were done in a special batch? >>


Probably did a special batch of 110k or so no m/m coins for the set and rather than melt the leftovers they just threw them in with the monster box coins not realizing the reverse die was a variety. These extra coins probably deserve a variety label and are probably worth more than the no m/m "set" coins.

Akbeez

<< <i>Probably did a special batch of 110k or so no m/m coins for the set and rather than melt the leftovers they just threw them in with the monster box coins not realizing the reverse die was a variety. These extra coins probably deserve a variety label and are probably worth more than the no m/m "set" coins. >>

OPA

Coins with a mm are not considered bullion coins, but collectors versions of the bullion coins. I'm sure Lloyd meant to say, that the bullion nmm & S Mint marked coin were all manufactured at SF

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>Probably did a special batch of 110k or so no m/m coins for the set and rather than melt the leftovers they just threw them in with the monster box coins not realizing the reverse die was a variety. These extra coins probably deserve a variety label and are probably worth more than the no m/m "set" coins. >>



>>


Of course if they did get a variety label you'd probably see a lot of 25th set no m/m crackouts. Then again the TPG would probably require them to be submitted in the sealed monster box to get the SF label since there is no m/m. In that case you'd see a bunch of re-submissions of 25th no m/m set holders just to switch over to the probably more valuable variety label.

Akbeez

Your theory is the best so far on the nmm's. Question is: how to prove?

BTW, the S will Reign!

Overdate

<< <i>The price guide for this 2011-S in MS70 is $600....lower than the Reverse Proof 70 ($700). Anybody thinks this will change in the future in terms of the price going much above that of the Reverse proof >>


I don't think so. Here's why:

1. On earlier issues, higher mintage proofs are bringing higher prices than lower mintage burnished specimens. Example:

2008-W proof, mintage 713k: $65.
2008-W burnished, mintage 444k: $48.

2. IMO, most casual collectors of non-proof silver eagles are just acquiring one bullion coin of each date for their albums, rather than the mintmarked burnished coins. To a great extent, the burnished coins are orphans, with less of a collector base than either the true bullion coins or the proofs. The same is true for platinum eagles - the 2008-W burnished coins have much lower mintages than the proofs, but the proofs bring a much higher price.

3. Current demand for proof silver eagles from the Mint appears to be in the high six figures per year, compared for demand for burnished specimens in the low to mid six figures. This is another indication of lower collector interest in the burnished coins, compared to the proofs.

4. The 2011-P reverse proof is a one-year type coin, with a distinct reverse from the 2006-P. Silver eagle type collectors will need the 2011-P. The 2011-S is not a one-year type coin.

Summing up, I think the 2011-S is a great coin, but I think the 2011-P reverse proof will continue to outrank the 2011-S in popularity.

derryb

<< <i>The price guide for this 2011-S in MS70 is $600....lower than the Reverse Proof 70 ($700). Anybody thinks this will change in the future in terms of the price going much above that of the Reverse proof >>


Price guide also has 2011 $5 US Army gold unc. MS70 at $575. I'll give you $600 ea. for all of those that you can deliver.

bestday

<< <i>

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>



Very right...but looking at past hisotry with the Annicersary sets they will want to make it a special one. The RP coin already seems to be a standard coin for the Anniversary sets. My prediction is that the mint will do a bullion coin, Reverse Proof (P mintmarked), a Proof (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (W mintmarked), a burnished coin (S mintmarked) and a burnished coin (Denver mintmarked). >>



The 2011 S will sport a much higher price in the future .. but also full sets will be attractive because of the interest in 2011 S cannibalizing full sets
........... our coin club accumulated a large amount of the 2011 S eagles .. in raw , PCGS NGC
Happy New Year to all

ericj96

<< <i>

<< <i>That doesn't mean though that there won't be another S coin in the 30th anniversary though >>



Yes but more "S" mint marked coins in the future will probably bode well for this coin because it is extremely unlikely that there will ever be another issue of 100K or less of said coin. Guess what that means-everyone who wants one will want the rarest date----2011 and the other dates will be "advertising" on behalf of this one. >>





Correct, very likely in all aspects

Bochiman

<< <i>

<< <i>The price guide for this 2011-S in MS70 is $600....lower than the Reverse Proof 70 ($700). Anybody thinks this will change in the future in terms of the price going much above that of the Reverse proof >>


Price guide also has 2011 $5 US Army gold unc. MS70 at $575. I'll give you $600 ea. for all of those that you can deliver. >>



The 2011-S in PCGS MS70 flag label are going for $520-$550 on ebay (for the ones I have been watching). Seems like the guide is not that far off on those and is a tad high.