Is SecurePlus a bust?

lkeigwin · December 29, 2011 11:41AM

I hardly ever come across them. I don't see much advantage, for the extra cost.

Is SP just for "special" coins? Do you use it? Do you think it has limited value as long as there is the regular service back door (to get around the scanner and Sniffer)?

What would it take to make SP a success? Used for every submission, no extra cost? Something else?
Lance.

WaterSport · December 29, 2011 11:42AM

I am non plused by secure plus.

WS

STONE · December 29, 2011 11:44AM

Very high valued coins probably benefit the most.
It makes the most sense from a cost/benefit standpoint.

Broadstruck · December 29, 2011 11:46AM

ambro51 · December 29, 2011 11:46AM

..ask that in ten years.

braddick · December 29, 2011 11:51AM

I love Secure Plus.
I have a couple of the new 2011 silver reverse Eagles graded under SP.

robkool · December 29, 2011 12:37PM

I use it on all those naturally toned coins that would otherwise end up in those AT holders...

DonWillis · December 29, 2011 12:57PM

If you noticed...the best collections coming up in Heritage's FUN sale are all Secure Plus.

Let's see.... if the smartest guys in the business are putting the best collections in Secure Plus holders.......does that mean Secure Plus is a bust?

Well, let's just see what the prices realized bring.

Many of the best collections are already in Secure Plus holders, if we could only say, but our lips are sealed, and the sets are not on the market.

You might check some of the top collections that have been sold recently. If I remember correctly, Mr. Duckor did ok with some half dollars.....

Seriously, Secure Plus is the way of the future. You can count on it.

AuroraBorealis · December 29, 2011 1:01PM

I for one totally agree with Don... That is what eventually i want all my coins in...

AB

GoldenEyeNumismatics · December 29, 2011 1:03PM

Currently, it is too expensive for extensive use by the middle of the market. Also, a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out.

lkeigwin · December 29, 2011 1:04PM

Thank you, Don, for chiming in. I have more than a handful of SP coins and have been a supporter. But I just haven't run across many. Perhaps my budget isn't deep enough.

I would love to see it as the standard, instead of an option. Do you see a time when all submissions are scanned, sniffed and SP'd?
Lance.

RedTiger · December 29, 2011 1:05PM

I vote no, not a bust.

In the never ending war against fakes, it is the state of the art in terms of identifying and verifying coins. With fakes getting better every year, coins submitted early with secure plus, with their data digitized have a reassurance that newer coins might never get. In as few as 10 years or 20 years, the best fakes might be so scary good, that provenance and secure plus digital archives might be the best defense against buying fakes.

For those that still think in terms of low quality fakes typically sold in tourist shops, or still write stuff such as only 1 in million coins being sold on Ebay are fake, talk off the record with some serious coin industry folks that are fighting the good fight against the latest and greatest fakes, and you'll get a better perspective.

illini420 · December 29, 2011 1:08PM

Secure plus will mean much more when it is mandatory for all submissions. Until then, the bad guys can just send in under the regular service rendering Secure Plus ineffective.

DonWillis · December 29, 2011 1:11PM

a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out.

Here is a big secret ...... just as many coins upgrade from Secure Plus holders as Regular holders. It makes sense if you think about it.

Oh wait, the ones that come back through puttied, tooled, or AT do get body bagged, but you shouldn't be worried about that.

notwilight · December 29, 2011 1:27PM

Maybe he meant, "Should I put my bust [half] in secure plus?"

Coppercolor · December 29, 2011 1:49PM

<< I use it on all those naturally toned coins that would otherwise end up in those AT holders... >>

Amen and +1 !!!!!!!!!!

RYK · December 29, 2011 1:59PM

I do not submit much with Secure Plus and have not used Secure Plus, except for an early, experimental submission when it first rolled out. In my niche, circulated 19th century rare date gold, it has not caught on. If I were collecting high-grade Saints, Barbers, or just about anything else, I might feel differently.

Justacommeman · December 29, 2011 2:02PM

I remain unconvinced but reserve the right to change my mind. MJ

Peacemonkey · December 29, 2011 2:11PM

That shield on the slab is so distracting.

Goldbully · December 29, 2011 2:13PM

Is there any other way with a coin when crypto79 recommends it????

In all candor....if you have a valuable coin that you love and cherish....this is the only way to grade and encapsulate her!!!!

RYK · December 29, 2011 2:16PM

<< That shield on the slab is so distracting. >>

They should use two shields in order to block the real estate for the sticker.

AnkurJ · December 29, 2011 2:37PM

<< Currently, it is too expensive for extensive use by the middle of the market. Also, a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out. >>

Agreed. Apparently according to dealers I have spoken to, secure plus coins have less allure to many people who crack coins out and resubmit.

As for the war against fakes, personally the CAC sticker offers a huge level of comfort for me.

tcmitssr · December 29, 2011 5:41PM

<< If you noticed...the best collections coming up in Heritage's FUN sale are all Secure Plus.

Let's see.... if the smartest guys in the business are putting the best collections in Secure Plus holders.......does that mean Secure Plus is a bust?

Well, let's just see what the prices realized bring.

Many of the best collections are already in Secure Plus holders, if we could only say, but our lips are sealed, and the sets are not on the market.

You might check some of the top collections that have been sold recently. If I remember correctly, Mr. Duckor did ok with some half dollars.....

Seriously, Secure Plus is the way of the future. You can count on it. >>

Currently, I have the only complete and ranked silver commem type set that is all in Secure Plus. I wouldn't have it any other way. Higher end sets, more than green beans, will only appreciate as the Secure Plus branding certifies that monster and semi-monster toners are legitimate.

Also, over 1/4 of my collection earned plus or higher grades.

I think Secure Plus is a rock solid investment and will mean more over the years than any green sticker on a slab.

tcmitssr · December 29, 2011 5:44PM

<< 

<< Currently, it is too expensive for extensive use by the middle of the market. Also, a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out. >>

Agreed. Apparently according to dealers I have spoken to, secure plus coins have less allure to many people who crack coins out and resubmit.

As for the war against fakes, personally the CAC sticker offers a huge level of comfort for me. >>

Coin crackers and doctors are PRECISELY the reason why if you have quality coins, you want them in Secure Plus.

Unless some feel that there is honor in selling to a crackout or coin doctor who's only going to harm business and the hobby in the long run.

tcmitssr · December 29, 2011 5:45PM

<< 

<< Currently, it is too expensive for extensive use by the middle of the market. Also, a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out. >>

Agreed. Apparently according to dealers I have spoken to, secure plus coins have less allure to many people who crack coins out and resubmit.

As for the war against fakes, personally the CAC sticker offers a huge level of comfort for me. >>

Having a PCGS slab provides enough comfort as to fakes. Paying for a green sticker to affirm what PCGS already has done.....nope. Paying for Secure Plus to assure anyone buying in the future that your monster toner is legit......yep!

wondercoin · December 29, 2011 5:53PM

I just want to know when Don is going to start permitting the + grade for 69 graded coins!! I can tell the difference between 69's and 70's and I want to start paying PCGS a lot of money to get a bunch of my 69 coins into 69+ holders. Come on Don .... pretty please... take my regrade money on these 69 grade coins!!

Wondercoin

Tonedlover · December 29, 2011 6:52PM

<< I use it on all those naturally toned coins that would otherwise end up in those AT holders... >>

This had never occurred to me! Has anyone had any coins come back "questionable color" under the regular service that were subsequently found to be natural toning when submitted under Secure Plus?

amwldcoin · December 29, 2011 9:46PM

<< If you noticed...the best collections coming up in Heritage's FUN sale are all Secure Plus.

Let's see.... if the smartest guys in the business are putting the best collections in Secure Plus holders.......does that mean Secure Plus is a bust?

Well, let's just see what the prices realized bring.

Many of the best collections are already in Secure Plus holders, if we could only say, but our lips are sealed, and the sets are not on the market.

You might check some of the top collections that have been sold recently. If I remember correctly, Mr. Duckor did ok with some half dollars.....

Seriously, Secure Plus is the way of the future. You can count on it. >>

I would say a bit of that thought goes to more profitability! I finally broke down and went with B+M now Stacks on a few auction submissions. They charge quite a bit less to have coins graded than Heritage does. I felt like I had been raped when I saw what Heritage charged me to get my coins graded....3 times what it would have cost me to submit myself! Yeah...from now on my coins will already be graded before submitting to auction!

RYK · December 29, 2011 9:50PM

I think that it is very hard to promote the Secure Plus platform without suggesting than the standard service, the bedrock of the PCGS reputation for the past 25 years, is not adequate protection from counterfeits, doctored coins, misgraded coins, etc.

RYK · December 29, 2011 10:10PM

One way to encourage people to submit to SP would be to give the coins in SP holders a boost in the registry. There would be an avalanche of resubs (after a short period of grumbling and shrill remarks).

Frankiefanatic · December 29, 2011 10:44PM

I don't think it's a 'bust'. I recently took the chance on 2 coins that have been sitting in my collection for awhile- nothing major, an 1878 CC graded as a 63 in an OGH and a 1881-S in a OGH 64. Since I had a one free submission and paid for only one it was just the trial I wanted to see. I will open the submission number here in a moment to let you all see what happened. sub# 4551225.

BTW- I felt that both coins deserved a bit better (+) than what I have- but considering what I originally paid for them I am very happy.

I have 3 others that I will send in for the SP- but I want to know what it will take to get that little + sign next to the grade- there is from what I have seen much discrepancy over this part.

Don't let it be said that ownership merits a point- I'm sure that a few in the house of David hate me...

DIMEMAN · December 29, 2011 10:58PM

I can see it as needed for big ticket items, but why is it required for ALL Canadian dimes before 1955?????

The 25 dollar cost could be as much or more than the value of the coin.

Maybe Mr. Willis could chime in here.

Halfhunter06 · December 30, 2011 12:16AM

I agree with many here that SP has limited potential. Sure for the $300,000 coin in a top set it may be worth it, but not much else. I mean how many people care that it went through a "sniffer"? If they love the coin and feel its a great addition to their collection that is all that should matter. Save your money and put the difference into another coin.

WaterSport · December 30, 2011 1:24AM

I see a pattern here. "High end" "Investment" "resale value"...Gee, I thought I was a coin collector.

WS

georgiacop50 · December 30, 2011 1:32AM

<< ...the Secure Plus branding certifies that monster and semi-monster toners are legitimate. >>

Do you REALLY believe that? Or do you REALLY WANT to believe that? Or are you simply naive?

Because it certainly is a falsehood.

No way can the sniffer differentiate between an NT coin and a AT coin that was induced by even an unsophisticated method such as placing the coin in a Taco Bell napkin and heating it.

renomedphys · December 30, 2011 2:07AM

At the very least, Secure Plus is a hedge against theft, which alone would be reason enough to have my best coins encapsulated as such.

As it stands, at least half the coins in my top set are in these holders, and most of which were placed there by me.

lkeigwin · December 30, 2011 3:49AM

I don't view SP as much of a hedge against theft. Sure, in the rare instance your stolen coin goes through SP a second time, it will be ID'd. But it avoids detection with the more common service grading at PCGS or at any of the other TPG's.
Lance.

BaseballAbs · December 30, 2011 3:54AM

Lets see how Secure Plus holds up when the counterfeit coins get better.

The Secure Plus program may be the only way to tell in some cases if a coin is fake or not.

Scary thought.

IrishMikey · December 30, 2011 4:33AM

<< One way to encourage people to submit to SP would be to give the coins in SP holders a boost in the registry. There would be an avalanche of resubs (after a short period of grumbling and shrill remarks). >>

While that may be very accurate, it just seems too cynical to receive serious consideration.

Unknown · December 30, 2011 4:50AM

This content has been removed.

Elcontador · December 30, 2011 5:04AM

No idea. It doesn't affect how I collect. I think if one is trying to sell expensive coins, the secure plus holders may attract the attention of the deep pocket crowd. However, an expensive coin is not necessarily in my eyes a nice coin, nor is it necessarily one I would want in my collection. It all depends on the coin and what it will cost me to purchase it.

crypto79 · December 30, 2011 6:24AM

I agree with GEN but would add I don't really care about a coin being maxed out. I see it as a high end service for high end coins that put people at ease knowing that everything thank can be done to check out a coin has been done. I think PCGS be proactive should be the model all other hobby resources should copy in providing service to collectors. That said, when and if pcgs corrects the complete trade dollar registry set for the errors in it and add the coins they left out and take out the ones that aren't real when I submitt my collection for the attrobution of the hub types and to get the coins reholdered into the new prongs holders I will break it up into SP group 1k+ coins and then then rest will be normal

bulldozer · December 30, 2011 6:49AM

Sure the bigger collectors are all secure plus. Isn't there a certain value where PCGS requires all coins to secure plus?

georgiacop50 · December 30, 2011 6:56AM

Good point, dozer!

RYK · December 30, 2011 7:02AM

<< Sure the bigger collectors are all secure plus. Isn't there a certain value where PCGS requires all coins to secure plus? >>

Yes, $200,000. Very few of us are at risk of being required to use it.

cmerlo1 · December 30, 2011 7:11AM

I use it for any coin whose value justifies the extra cost.

Justacommeman · December 30, 2011 11:44AM

<< 

<< Currently, it is too expensive for extensive use by the middle of the market. Also, a SecurePlus holder gives the impression that the coin is maxed out. >>

As for the war against fakes, personally the CAC sticker offers a huge level of comfort for me. >>

I agree. I prefer the independent second opinion and I think the market does as well.

On a side note the CAC sticker designates solid for the grade. SecurePlus can be low end for the grade right? SecurePlus means that its digitally photographed and "sniffed'" correct? Only a SecurePlus + designates a PQ coin. A regular PCGS + slab also means PQ. MJ

Halfhunter06 · December 31, 2011 1:57AM

If you noticed...the best collections coming up in Heritage's FUN sale are all Secure Plus.

Was this done voluntarily by the collector or did PCGS have influence and put pressure on them to do it? The answer to this question is VERY important.

ricko · December 31, 2011 2:47AM

I believe the Secure Plus program is important, and will eventually be adapted widely. It provides an important record of the coin and, for many coins, this can be important (i.e. theft, counterfeits etc). Yes, mainly for coins of significant value. Cheers, RickO

BarberFanatic · January 2, 2012 9:32AM

<< If you noticed...the wealthiest collections coming up in Heritage's FUN sale are all Secure Plus.

Let's see.... if the wealthiest guys in the business are putting the best collections in Secure Plus holders.......does that mean Secure Plus is a bust?

Well, let's just see what the prices realized bring.

Many of the wealthiest collections are already in Secure Plus holders, if we could only say, but our lips are sealed, and the sets are not on the market.

You might check some of the wealthiest collections that have been sold recently. If I remember correctly, Mr. Duckor did ok with some half dollars.....

Seriously, Secure Plus is the way of the future. You can count on it. >>

Fixed.

joefro · January 2, 2012 1:55PM

<< I think that it is very hard to promote the Secure Plus platform without suggesting than the standard service, the bedrock of the PCGS reputation for the past 25 years, is not adequate protection from counterfeits, doctored coins, misgraded coins, etc. >>

+1

Is SecurePlus a bust?

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