China Bans Gold Exchanges

mrearlygold

China Bans Gold Exchanges
by Robert Wenzel
Economic Policy Journal

Here's another indication that the price inflation in China is much greater than the official reports of around 4.0%.

Gold exchanges in China outside of two in Shanghai have been banned, according to a statement from the the People's Bank of China, the Ministry of Public Security and other regulators. This is a clear sign of panic among government officials. Chinese people were protecting themselves against the inflation by buying gold.

Until this order, gold exchanges operated throughout China.

"No local authority, institution or individual is allowed to set up gold exchanges," said the notice dated December 20
China Bans Gold Exchanges



I can also tell you there are new rules in Vietnam. Before a month or so ago it was legal to change US dollars at any gold shop . No more. If you want to change dollars now, you MUST go to an official bank.

ricko

Hmmm... this indicates that something is afoot... could be just extreme caution, or it could be the precursor to bad, very bad, times. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway

Source of the story:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45794782

derryb

I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of. A huge impact on estimated world supply if figure was actually public.

timcoin

Or maybe they are trying to protect their citizens from losing a bunch of money?

gecko109

<< <i>I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of. A huge impact on estimated world supply if figure was actually public. >>






Im having some serious issues with this comment. First of all, the official number of gold held in China is a number that the government holds in reserve.....roughly 1050 tons as widly accepted/reported.

Of course, in addition to that number, private citizens also own gold.....but that number could never be accurately defined.

So of the 1050 tons reported to be held in China, a factor of 100x that amount would equal 105,000 tons, or approximately 13 times more than the U.S. reportedly holds.

Now the biggest problem with your 100x premise is that there are only 4.5 billion oz of gold thought to have ever been mined in the world's history. Thats about 155,000 tons of total gold thought to exist above ground currently. Your premise assumes that China owns 67% of all the gold ever mined in mankind's history. Thats a bit presumptious! And remember, that number was calculated not from "hundreds" of x, but rather just 100x.

I do agree that the Chinese government holds more than the reported 1050 tons.....but its probably by a factor of 2-3x, NOT hundreds or thousands of times more.

fastrudy

^^^^^^^^^^^

Well Done

CaptHenway

A large gold trader on the dealer-to-dealer network says that gold exchanges have not been banned, only new ones. Also, the existing ones are not allowed to offer new services.

Big difference

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of. A huge impact on estimated world supply if figure was actually public. >>



Im having some serious issues with this comment. First of all, the official number of gold held in China is a number that the government holds in reserve.....roughly 1050 tons as widly accepted/reported.

Of course, in addition to that number, private citizens also own gold.....but that number could never be accurately defined.

So of the 1050 tons reported to be held in China, a factor of 100x that amount would equal 105,000 tons, or approximately 13 times more than the U.S. reportedly holds.

Now the biggest problem with your 100x premise is that there are only 4.5 billion oz of gold thought to have ever been mined in the world's history. Thats about 155,000 tons of total gold thought to exist above ground currently. Your premise assumes that China owns 67% of all the gold ever mined in mankind's history. Thats a bit presumptious! And remember, that number was calculated not from "hundreds" of x, but rather just 100x.

I do agree that the Chinese government holds more than the reported 1050 tons.....but its probably by a factor of 2-3x, NOT hundreds or thousands of times more. >>


Your numbers are based on "reported" figures and "estimates," either of which could be and most likely are far from correct. My numbers are based on gold held outside of the chinese government by centuries old families that accepted only gold for payment in return for all the silk, spices and rugs they sold europeans for centuries. The history books are full of the massive trading that followed the journeys of Marco Polo and date back to much of the Roman Empire's gold being spent in Asia. Fortunes in gold were privately amassed and remain elusive of "official" numbers and estimates because the gold remains hidden by these Chinese families. Where do you think all of this gold is? I suspect it is hidden from estimators. Also, if you research the $1 Trillion dollar lawsuit against the US Federal Reserve by the Dragon family you will learn that for the last two hundred years part of this privately held gold was loaned to the US and never repaid.

gecko109

Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:


"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."




There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry?

derryb

<< <i>Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:

"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."

There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry? >>


Your 1050 ton figure (actually 1054.1 tons) is what is reported to be held only by the Chinese Central Bank, not in all of China. How much faith can anyone really put into a claim of how much gold has been mined throughout all of history? Your entire argument is based on a total that is supposed to represent all of history! Do you not believe there are centuries old organized Chinese families who have amassed and privately and secretly hold many times the amount of gold that is held by the modern Chinese central bank? The 1050 tons at the chinese central bank was amassed in only 68 years. The fact that one family, the Dragon family has filed suit for return of the $1 Trillion in gold it claims to have lent the Federal Reserve in the 1930's reveals existence of some of this privately held gold.

Reported/estimated gold and actual gold are two different animals. Additionally, do we really have accurate records of all of the gold ever mined throughout history? I think not, all we have are guesses. We do know that a large part of europe's gold was transferred to asia with the purchase of luxuries (silk, spice, rugs, etc.) after Marco Polo opened of the trading door. This included a good portion of the gold Spanish invaders stole from the Mayans. We do know that these asian traders insisted on payment in gold for these luxuries. I stand by my statement: I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of. I propose a lot of gold has been in private asian family hands for centuries and has not been counted in any of the official guesses of supply.

It's no secret that many of today's private stackers prefer to keep their holdings under the radar. Do you not think it was also a preferrence of the early stackers and much more easily accomplished before today's accountability and traceability controls made it much more difficult to do?

I am saying:
(1) I believe estimates of all the gold ever mined throughout man's history is grossly underestimated.
(2) A lot of uncounted gold remains hidden in the hands of centuries old asian families who began their "stacking" while trading luxuries for gold with the europeans at a time when there was no official record keeping.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:


"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."




There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry? >>




Don't confuse him with the facts........

As to the Dragon Family claims.....................

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:

"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."

There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry? >>




Don't confuse him with the facts........

As to the Dragon Family claims..................... >>



Facts are:
-the 1050 ton amount is what is held by the chinese central bank, not what is currently held in china.
-Dragon Family lawsuit is public record.

gecko109

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:

"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."

There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry? >>




Don't confuse him with the facts........

As to the Dragon Family claims..................... >>



Facts are:
-the 1050 ton amount is what is held by the chinese central bank, not what is currently held in china.
-Dragon Family lawsuit is public record. >>





The $1 trillion number is with accrued interest...principle was just $145 bil. Secondly, ANYONE can file a lawsuit against anyone else.......simply filing a lawsuit does not make the alleged incident true. Thirdly, YOU said that China holds hundreds if not thousands of times more gold than what is reported. Im simply using the very lowest reported number available......the tonnage held by the Chinese Central bank.....to disprove you.

Sure, I'll agree that the 4.5 billion oz estimate is just that....an estimate. But its the best number we have in regards to total number of gold oz in existance above ground. And in using the 3 basic numbers we have available to us......4.5 billion total oz, 1050 tons, and your 100x factor......then we would have to believe that there is more than twice the amount of gold just in China as there is in every other nation on earth....combined!

Sorry Derry, but thats HIGHLY unlikely at best.

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Sorry Derry, but you said...and I quote:

"I suspect that there is much more gold in China than reported, hundreds maybe thousands times what we know of."

There is REPORTED to be 1050 tons of gold in China currently. 100x that amount would be 105,000 tons......or approximately 67% of all gold ever mined in human history. So do you stand by that claim? Do you really feel that there is more gold in China than double the rest of the world combined? Really Derry? >>




Don't confuse him with the facts........

As to the Dragon Family claims..................... >>



Facts are:
-the 1050 ton amount is what is held by the chinese central bank, not what is currently held in china.
-Dragon Family lawsuit is public record. >>





The $1 trillion number is with accrued interest...principle was just $145 bil. Secondly, ANYONE can file a lawsuit against anyone else.......simply filing a lawsuit does not make the alleged incident true. Thirdly, YOU said that China holds hundreds if not thousands of times more gold than what is reported. Im simply using the very lowest reported number available......the tonnage held by the Chinese Central bank.....to disprove you.

Sure, I'll agree that the 4.5 billion oz estimate is just that....an estimate. But its the best number we have in regards to total number of gold oz in existance above ground. And in using the 3 basic numbers we have available to us......4.5 billion total oz, 1050 tons, and your 100x factor......then we would have to believe that there is more than twice the amount of gold just in China as there is in every other nation on earth....combined!

Sorry Derry, but thats HIGHLY unlikely at best. >>


You missed the point, it's not the lawsuit, it's the fact that the Dragon family, just one of many, revealed they have off record, large amounts of gold holdings.

The best number we have? It's the only number we have and is subject to many multiples of error. It's nothing better than a guess when you are talking about something for which there are centuries of no records.

highly unlikely to you, highly suspect to me.
History, both modern and ancient, shows that the chinese are hoarders of gold. It would not suprise me at all to find out they, after centuries of accumulating, have more than half of the world's supply. If they did, do you think they would really want anyone else to know?