Options
* worthy??
Peacemonkey
Posts: 384 ✭
0
Peacemonkey
Posts: 384 ✭
Comments
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
EAC 6024
U.S. Type Set
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Maybe it was suppose to be a + and not a *. I could possibly see it as a + grade. Having said that, you are judging the coin based on some pictures. I would assume look at the coin in hand before passing off judgement of beauty. >>
I dunno...Those are pretty good pictures. I would feel confident the seller is representing his wares very accurately. I think your + idea might have some tread.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe it was suppose to be a + and not a *. I could possibly see it as a + grade. Having said that, you are judging the coin based on some pictures. I would assume look at the coin in hand before passing off judgement of beauty. >>
I dunno...Those are pretty good pictures. I would feel confident the seller is representing his wares very accurately. I think your + idea might have some tread. >>
I think NGC could have very easily placed a * rather than a +. It just seems like a mistake too easy to make. I, however, certainly do not know the Walker series well enough to even pass judgement of grade.
<< <i>That is probably the most undeserving coin that has ever been awarded a star designation by NGC. I am tempted to e-mail the photo to NGC and ask them what were they thinking? >>
I'm tempted to encourage you to do so.
Makes one wonder what talent these graders have if any.
If we were split 50-50 then I could allow a star grade but that coin is not star material at all.
And look in the right side field. There's a lot of chatter beneath the toning for a '66'.
Maybe a 'star' and a '66' are both bad grades.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>That is probably the most undeserving coin that has ever been awarded a star designation by NGC. I am tempted to e-mail the photo to NGC and ask them what were they thinking? >>
I'm tempted to encourage you to do so. >>
Okay, I e-mailed them. Let's see what happens.
Ron
Lance.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Also, I'm wondering if the coin could have "turned" in the holder. >>
Agree. Dipped and improperly rinsed and neutralized. It may have been blast white at the time it was graded.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The star is a bad joke on that coin. NGC's got a bunch of bad joke stars out there, and a bunch of deserving coins that don't have the start. Of course, both major TPG's misgrade coins from time to time, whether it be technical grade or eye appeal grade... >>
+1
<< <i>Also, I'm wondering if the coin could have "turned" in the holder. >>
It didn't turn in the holder.
The slab is fairly new/fresh and the prong holder doesn't turn coins.
It's paper wrap toning (probably an older album of some type) and will appear more golden in person.
Whether it suits you or not is difficult to determine in that photo.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, I'm wondering if the coin could have "turned" in the holder. >>
It didn't turn in the holder.
The slab is fairly new/fresh and the prong holder doesn't turn coins.
It's paper wrap toning (probably an older album of some type) and will appear more golden in person.
Whether it suits you or not is difficult to determine in that photo. >>
Pat,
I agree with you 100% that the coin will look better in hand than it does in that photo. And I agree that the toning is natural and that the coin did not turn in the slab. Having said that, it would be an absolute miracle if I viewed that coin in hand and then agreed with the star designation. The toning pattern itself (mottled) should prevent any chance of getting a star.
I am not basing my opinion on the E-Bay photo, my opinion is based on the Heritage photo which does not improve the appearance much if at all.
1945-D WLH NGC MS66*
It sold for $207 in the Pittsburgh auction barely exceeding Numismedia Wholesale. Now the E-Bay seller has it listed at $295. I wish him well cause I think it will sit there for a very long time at that price.
That's a negative star, in my eyes.
A black hole?
To each his own. Therein lies the problem of assigning stars for eye appeal, I suppose.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
The purists (the all coins that have dipped are ruined crowd) love this stuff, but it does not do much for me. I think that there is probably a pretty nice coin under the ugly toning, but you have to like the toning to make it work for you.
Without seeing the OP's coin in person it is near impossible to determine if NGC got it right or wrong. I'd lean more toward right.
As always, you show calm and reason when other jump to conclusions.
Thanks.
I don't know the seller, nor the coin, but agree it could look better. It is also likely a type of toning that some will really like, other will be "meh" about, and some will hate.
It's one of the calculated risks when one buys/sells toned coins.....lighting/angle/plastic/etc, all make a difference, and at times, a large difference, in the look of toning
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>This is a prime example of an “end of the roll” coin. It got toned that way because it was exposed to the roll paper folded on the coin’s obverse which was full sulfur.
The purists (the all coins that have dipped are ruined crowd) love this stuff, but it does not do much for me. I think that there is probably a pretty nice coin under the ugly toning, but you have to like the toning to make it work for you. >>
As expected, Bill is correct about it being an"end roll toner". I have purchased several original rolls of walkers, and have several end roll coins that look like that or even darker. While it doesn't have the beautiful eye appeal of a rainbow, it looks very original and from the looks of the reverse has really nice luster. This is an eye of the beholder thing. For everyone that says they like unmessed with original coins, here you go.
Andrew
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>With the coin owner's permission, I submit these two photo- both of the same coin.
Without seeing the OP's coin in person it is near impossible to determine if NGC got it right or wrong. I'd lean more toward right. >>
Some of us with some photography experience have gotten pretty good at working from pictures only. I am no expert but I have done pretty well flipping bad picure coins. And there are some much better than I that have agreed in this forum, Kryptonite comics for example. And if the argument was being made about just your mercury dime's first picture, I would agree with you 100% and not dare try and ascertain what was under that poorly lit attempt at photogrpahy. But you cannot compare even in the same ballpark, pic #1 mercury, and the dual sets of pictures available for the walker. I have dealt with you too braddick and I consder you to have one of the best eyes on this forum for coins. I have purchase several of your coins and I am familiar with your pictures techniques as well, having several times spotted a few of your ebay aliases just from your picture style. Theres a lot of inforamation in pictures, good and bad when you learn how to read them, tweak them, and everything else. And I think the pictures for this walker are no excpetion and clearly show a mistake was made in giving it a *. I dont disagree that I may be wrong. There is ALWAYS that chance. But the liklihood varies and with this one I think we are in the 99% range.
<< <i>I'm thinking the luster and the patina is much more pleasant and appealing in person. >>
i think you are correct.
i had a Franklin with the same color toning and it was awesome in hand but didn`t photograph well. i bet the cartwheel luster makes that chestnut toning glow when tilted. JMO
edit to add pics: this sold raw on ebay for maybe 15 bucks a few years back. the color was incredible in hand. looked like this in photos.
<< <i>With the coin owner's permission, I submit these two photo- both of the same coin.
Without seeing the OP's coin in person it is near impossible to determine if NGC got it right or wrong. I'd lean more toward right. >>
I have actually written about this subject on other forums (see link below). However, the quality of Heritage photos has improved over the years, and it is extremely difficult to find a coin that is badly misrepresented by their photography these days. Just about anyone can provide examples of photography where one photo makes the coin look terrible and the other makes the coin look gorgeous. But the coin in the OP was photographed in October of 2011 by Heritage. Now if you can provide an example of this using a recent Heritage photo, it would better serve your point.
Peacemonkey's comments about numismatic photography are spot on. Is there a chance that this coin deserves a star? Sure, in much the same way that Lloyd had a chance with Mary in Dumb & Dumber.
The Importance of Quality Photographs!
I am going to play with photoshop and see if there is anything I can do to juice this thing to get it a star. Wish me luck!
I got some purple to show up and made the remainder of the toning appear blazing with hues of red. Star worthy, not on your life!
<< <i>Nice avatar change Peacemonkey, rainbow camel? lama? >>
Im not sure. I had to pick something until avatar day.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That is probably the most undeserving coin that has ever been awarded a star designation by NGC. I am tempted to e-mail the photo to NGC and ask them what were they thinking? >>
I'm tempted to encourage you to do so. >>
Okay, I e-mailed them. Let's see what happens. >>
They blew me off, here is the response:
Thank you for your email. At the time of grading, our graders felt this coin has exceptional eye appeal. The following will explain our (*) designation.
http://www.ngccoin.com/coingrading/plus-and-star-designations.aspx
Please feel free to email or call us should you have any further questions.
Thank you,
Lisa
Lisa Berzins
Lberzins@NGCcoin.com
NGC Customer Service
800-642-2646 Ext. 134
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That is probably the most undeserving coin that has ever been awarded a star designation by NGC. I am tempted to e-mail the photo to NGC and ask them what were they thinking? >>
I'm tempted to encourage you to do so. >>
Okay, I e-mailed them. Let's see what happens. >>
They blew me off, here is the response:
Thank you for your email. At the time of grading, our graders felt this coin has exceptional eye appeal. The following will explain our (*) designation.
http://www.ngccoin.com/coingrading/plus-and-star-designations.aspx
Please feel free to email or call us should you have any further questions.
Thank you,
Lisa
Lisa Berzins
Lberzins@NGCcoin.com
NGC Customer Service
800-642-2646 Ext. 134 >>
What were you expecting from NGC? An apology?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
What were you expecting from NGC? An apology? >>
I would have been more encouraged if she sent me a link explaining the grade review process.
Eric