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All is well in the land of deal making.
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Just wanted to get this off my chest. I have upset a fellow member with a "non-deal".
Follow along:
3:06 pm yesterday:
I offer 100oz of silver for $3050 to a VERY honest and great guy....fellow member.
4:53 pm:
Member replies that they cant afford the deal.
5:07 pm:
Member replies that they have a payment due in on Monday morning and can sign over that money order and pay difference. I did not get that message until 6am this morning.
6:11am this morning:
I respond to member that the post office can cash money orders, and that if he did this, we could do the deal this morning....I ask him to let me know by 11am.
9:17 am:
I respond to member that another buyer has stepped up and commited to the deal.
9:20 am:
Member responds that he just woke up and says he will see if the post office can cash a large money order so early.
9:26 am:
Member responds that he got a loan to cover the purchase.
9:28 am:
I respond that I will make a phone call. The call was to my other buyer who I commited to. Wanted to see if he was ok with me backing out......he was not, and I dont blame him.....a deal is a deal.
9:32 am:
I respond to member that im fully commited to the deal with other guy.
The member is now a bit upset with me. Incidentally, silver rose over $1 overnight/this morning. I locked in at $3050 with other party, the same offer I had made to our forum member. I had not checked kitco until after the message I got from the forum member at 9:26 am. I was curious as to why he was in such a rush to close this potential deal! Now I know why.
Follow along:
3:06 pm yesterday:
I offer 100oz of silver for $3050 to a VERY honest and great guy....fellow member.
4:53 pm:
Member replies that they cant afford the deal.
5:07 pm:
Member replies that they have a payment due in on Monday morning and can sign over that money order and pay difference. I did not get that message until 6am this morning.
6:11am this morning:
I respond to member that the post office can cash money orders, and that if he did this, we could do the deal this morning....I ask him to let me know by 11am.
9:17 am:
I respond to member that another buyer has stepped up and commited to the deal.
9:20 am:
Member responds that he just woke up and says he will see if the post office can cash a large money order so early.
9:26 am:
Member responds that he got a loan to cover the purchase.
9:28 am:
I respond that I will make a phone call. The call was to my other buyer who I commited to. Wanted to see if he was ok with me backing out......he was not, and I dont blame him.....a deal is a deal.
9:32 am:
I respond to member that im fully commited to the deal with other guy.
The member is now a bit upset with me. Incidentally, silver rose over $1 overnight/this morning. I locked in at $3050 with other party, the same offer I had made to our forum member. I had not checked kitco until after the message I got from the forum member at 9:26 am. I was curious as to why he was in such a rush to close this potential deal! Now I know why.
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Comments
<< <i>As the saying goes..."He who snoozes --- looses." He should have dragged his ars out of bed in time. >>
That...in a nutshell....is my response to the member. I told him he was just a bit too slow.
...I ask him to let me know by 11am.
Was this the cutoff time of the deal? If so, I wouldn't be too happy if the rug was pulled out from under me.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>...I ask him to let me know by 11am.
Was this the cutoff time of the deal? If so, I wouldn't be too happy if the rug was pulled out from under me. >>
And admittedly, this is the only source of possible guilt that I feel. Even though I asked the member to let me know by 11am, there was no wording to state or even suggest that he was locked in until then. I simply wanted a firm response from him by that time. About an hour and a half later is when I got a call from a buddy who said he wanted the silver. I had left him a voice message on his phone last night.
If I had stated in the message that I was holding the deal for him (the member) until 11am, THEN im basically committing to him. But there was no deal....or even understanding of a deal in place at that point. I offered the deal to him, and he replied that he could not afford it.
...But there was no deal....or even understanding of a deal in place at that point. I offered the deal to him, and he replied that he could not afford it."
<< <i>"9:26 am:
Member responds that he got a loan to cover the purchase."
You must use a different clock than I do...?? While I'm not defending either party, I just think it could've been handled differently. Being on the receiving end myself of landing on your back because the rug was yanked from under you prematurely doesn't sit well in most cases.
edited for grammar
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>
5:07 pm:
Member replies that they have a payment due in on Monday morning and can sign over that money order and pay difference. I did not get that message until 6am this morning.
>>
This would break it for me when the other party admits that they don't have good funds available. I wouldn't provide banking services on a bullion deal.
And a "for response", yes dilly-dallying around gets you left behind sometimes. I've been on both sides, it's aggrivating for both parties, but life will go on.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
roadrunner
In knowing the member, im 110% CERTAIN that if we locked in a deal last night.....and silver did drop, he would still make good on the deal. The member is someone who I have dealt with multiple times, and is a good guy. I just think that the rise in silver lit a flame under his butt to "find" the money is all. If he was truly interested in my deal yesterday at 3:06pm, he would have gotten that loan BEFORE silver jumped $1.22 in price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Hindsight is everything, but I probably would have told the 2nd buyer that I would have to wait until 11:00AM before I could commit to selling to him.
I knew it would happen.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>Hindsight is everything, but I probably would have told the 2nd buyer that I would have to wait until 11:00AM before I could commit to selling to him. >>
Although I agree with this, the 'finding the money' seems a bit sketchy. Personally I would like to think that I would have waited till 11:01am especially with a member that you have dealt with before.
But like another said... Money talks.
BSTs with: Coll3ctor, gsa1fan, mkman123, ajbauman, tydye, piecesofme, pursuitofliberty
Travelog - 20in20travels.com
To me, this would have meant the lot was available to buyer #2 at 11:01 am, and that's how I would have conditioned it.
In any case, it's always interesting with bullion, especially on these 4% days.
Saved myself over $100 it looks like
GrandAm
P.S. paid for this deal with the profit from my 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle deals
<< <i>
<< <i>Hindsight is everything, but I probably would have told the 2nd buyer that I would have to wait until 11:00AM before I could commit to selling to him. >>
Although I agree with this, the 'finding the money' seems a bit sketchy. Personally I would like to think that I would have waited till 11:01am especially with a member that you have dealt with before.
But like another said... Money talks. >>
If you offer something for sale until 11am......and someone with cash says "SOLD" , then what happens to all others who didnt pull the trigger fast enough? Are they entitled to feel upset because they didnt get to buy it at 10:59:59?
Had I told the member I would hold it for him till 11am, then im a jerk for not giving him till 11am. I simply asked for a response before 11am. There was no promises made or implied that the item would still be available by then. If it had still been available, and he got back to me before 11am, then it would have been his. Had he NOT gotten back to me before 11am, and the item was still available, then all bets are off and we renegotiate.
Basically its like a "FSHO" type of concept. You might list something for a really good price on the BST, but have other lines in the water as well. If you sell via one of those other lines, then any forum member who wants to buy the item is out of luck. Same applies here. I never once locked ANYTHING in with the member because he DID NOT HAVE THE CASH. Someone else DID have the cash, and he got the item.
Perhaps you should check your messages. If so, by using my "lesson learned" comments, you would see that I admitted that my inability to secure funds right at the time you initially offered me the deal defintely played a part in all this. In case you can't read thru the lines on that, I will say it here on this thread that you have created about this, that definetly played a part.
I'm also having trouble understanding why you have created a thread about our personal business...because again, if you would check your messages, you would also see that I said this is over and wished you & your family a pleasant Holiday season. Did I not?
In our messages, I asked that you accept responsibility in not replying to the counter-offer that I made at 5:07 PM last night, you refused to do so. I waited til midnight for a response, which didn't come til 6:07 AM this morning. Thinkin the possible deal was dead by your non reply by midnight, I had the chance to sleep in today after a brutal holiday weekend. So yes, I did not check my messages til around 9 this AM. I replied with the "let me get going on this" statement.
The time I was writing that, you literally must've been typing to let me know that it had been sold. Look at the times, they were 3 minutes apart, and when I'm waking up, it takes me longer to think. Sorry, that's a downfall of mine.
So you had been waiting since 6:07 AM, but I was just waking up and saw that message and replied to it. In that exact timeframe (what are the freaking odds of that), you said it had been sold.
So my sleeping in because I thought the deal was dead and your inability to reply last night for 6.5 hours that waited because you were "spending family time" kind of go hand in hand here Phil. Did I not ask you to agree to that Phil? Instead, you elected to create a thread about it, clearly showing that you will not accept that repsonsibility.
At 9:20 AM this morning, I replied to your 6:07 AM reply to my 5:07 PM (yesterday) counter-offer saying that I would get my arse in gear and get to the P.O. to get the USPS money order that I was fairly confident would be there. Knowing that you had set a 11AM time to know something, I said "let me get going on this." Did I not ask that of you Phil?
(For those playing along, I had to cash that money order to get the balance of cash Phil wanted.)
Knowing cashing a postal money order of the amount I needed (but had in the form of that Postal m.o.) would be a problem because my P.O has refused to that in the past, I gave a brother of mine a call. He quickly said that he would loan the balance of cash I need to complete the deal...again knowing that I had til 11:00 to get back to Phil.
At 9:26 AM, I told Phil that I have it all. He said he had to make a phone call. He promptly pm'd me back saying sorry, but he had already commited to the other buyer.
That's exactly where I have a problem with all this. I was given til 11AM to let Phil know something about this. I did, but was sold out for the difference of pocket change.
The fluctuation of silver going up HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, as my counter-offer to Phil was sent to him at 5:07 PM LAST NIGHT.
I thank Phil for acknowledging that even if Spot had gone down that I still would've adhered to my responsibility to that point. So if anyone working that angle on this they can shove it. What I would like to know why Phil initally implied this in the thread...at least that's the way I take it. But since he says that I am a man of my word, no worries.
So in (my) summary, I take this as a lesson learned, as I told Phil in our messages while it was happening. Just a little bit of patience would went a long way for both of us. Instead we have to publicly talk about it since Phil choose to create a thread about it.
Phil...I will tell you as I did in a message sent to you after I calmed down about being sold out. I wish you & yours have a pleasant Holiday season and I mean that sincerely.
Hey Rich, why didnt you ask your brother for the loan yesterday instead of at 9am this morning? Oh yeah, because silver hadnt gone up $1.22 yesterday.
If you REALLY wanted the deal yesterday Rich, you would have secured the funds. You DID NOT secure the funds before another buyer beat you to it Rich. And now you are angry with me because you lost out on a hundred bucks or so of profit. If silver had stayed the same price, you wouldnt have been nearly as upset. Thats the truth.
Which is it Phil?...what am I thinking right now since you're a mind reader and know what people "think". I will give you a hint, it's 2 words. The first one starts with a F and the second ends in a U.
You sold me out for the difference of what netted you $100...gas money. I hope your rep is worth it. You played the market...I did not, and the timetable of our messages proves that.
Even not hearing my side of this story, most question you're impatience about this. As far as making it public, like I said, you have a history of making private transactions where you have some sort of problem with it public, and egg people on with the "out the person" factor, so I beat you to the punch on it.
Why do this in the first place? It was over. Did I send you another message about it after calming down? Why are you drawing attention to it by creating a thread even if I had not replied to this thread? Can't you think for yourself about something that happened that involves YOU? Why ask public opinion over something that was resolved bewteen us?
Who's the drama queen now?
edited for grammar
<< <i>So now you're saying that I am not a man of my word when you said earlier in this thread that I would've followed thru even if Spot went down?
Which is it Phil?...what am I thinking right now since you're a mind reader and know what people "think". I will give you a hint, it's 2 words. The first one starts with a F and the second ends in a U.
You sold me out for the difference of what netted you $100...gas money. I hope your rep is worth it. You played the market...I did not, and the timetable of our messages proves that.
Even not hearing my side of this story, most question you're impatience about this. As far as making it public, like I said, you have a history of making private transactions where you have some sort of problem with it public, and egg people on with the "out the person" factor, so I beat you to the punch on it.
Why do this in the first place? It was over. Did I send you another message about it after calming down? Why are you drawing attention to it by creating a thread even if I had not replied to this thread? Can't you think for yourself about something that happened that involves YOU? Why ask public opinion over something that was resolved bewteen us?
Who's the drama queen now?
edited for grammar >>
I know you would have followed through on a silver down turn.....if we had locked in a deal. Did we lock in a deal Rich? No? We didnt? Then why so upset buddy?
Phil - we agree on this statement.
I've already acknowledged a deal was not made, but if you would've checked your messages in the 6.5 hours that I waited for you to do so, this would have clearly turned out differently. You've stated that you called your other buyer yesterday, so you were playing both sides weren't you? Some call that playing the market. You were going to win on this at all cost, even if it meant selling either of us out. You needed the $ quick for whatever reason.
You not replying to an ongoing transaction is the only accountability that I was asking you to take on this, but you choose not to. So as I said, lesson learned. You were too busy playing the market to reply. Yes it was "ongoing" too, because I replied back to you very promptly yesterday.
Why am I upset? I'm not now, but I was this morning. I usually react that way when someone that I have done business with before and I trust sells me out for a few bucks. But I'm not upset now. In fact, I'm happy for you as I said in pm's and on this thread...you ultimately got what you set out to do.
Would I have gone about it differently if I was the one selling? (rhetorical)
<< <i>Did we lock in a deal Rich? No? We didnt? Then why so upset buddy?
I've already acknowledged a deal was not made, but if you would've checked your messages in the 6.5 hours that I waited for you to do so, this would have clearly turned out differently. You've stated that you called your other buyer yesterday, so you were playing both sides weren't you? Some call that playing the market. You were going to win on this at all cost, even if it meant selling either of us out. You needed the $ quick for whatever reason.
You not replying to an ongoing transaction is the only accountability that I was asking you to take on this, but you choose not to. So as I said, lesson learned. You were too busy playing the market to reply. Yes it was "ongoing" too, because I replied back to you very promptly yesterday.
Why am I upset? I'm not now, but I was this morning. I usually react that way when someone that I have done business with before and I trust sells me out for a few bucks. But I'm not upset now. In fact, I'm happy for you as I said in pm's and on this thread...you ultimately got what you set out to do.
Would I have gone about it differently if I was the one selling? (rhetorical) >>
Its a real shame you have such a hard time with reading comprehension Rich. I stated in this thread, as well as in a PM to you that I sold the lot for the same terms......$3050.....as I offered to you. You keep saying I "sold you out for a few bucks". Either you cant read very well, or are calling me a liar. Which is it?
take this out to the playground
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
Rich is upset because I dont check my messages here every 15 minutes. Thats what he is angry about.
He is WAY out of line here!
This is
<< <i>This whole thing probably should have been in PMs, what is the point in creating a thread about it?
This is
The whole thing was in PMs until the member started talking about how I "sold him out" in a few responses. Once the member decided to accuse me of wrong doing, thats when I decided to go public and get a pulse on the forum in regards to the way this situation played out.
Had this member acted a bit more graciously on the fact that he didnt get the item for sale, none of this would have hit the forum.
<< <i>Thunder Dome! >>
Lol... Always something interesting on the boards...
BSTs with: Coll3ctor, gsa1fan, mkman123, ajbauman, tydye, piecesofme, pursuitofliberty
Travelog - 20in20travels.com
Thanks for past deals and opportunities that you've given me Phil. I'm over it, just wish this one could've/wouldve been handled differently. As I've said from the outset, lesson learned.
<< <i>Life is too short to bicker over things like this, and I have too much to be thankful for than getting upset about being passed over on 1 deal.
Thanks for past deals and opportunities that you've given me Phil. I'm over it, just wish this one could've/wouldve been handled differently. As I've said from the outset, lesson learned. >>
And thank you as well for the past transactions.....both on the buy and sell side. As mentioned at the very onset of this thread, I expressed that you are a truthful and honest guy. I would have no reservations doing business with you in the future. Have a happy and safe holiday Rich.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>A public display of private business is the kind of crap that will bring an end to the BST. >>
Well said!
<< <i>A public display of private business is the kind of crap that will bring an end to the BST. >>
Except this "non-deal" was never even on the BST Derry. It was a private negotiation between two members who have done business before. Had nothing to do with the BST in the least.
<< <i>
<< <i>A public display of private business is the kind of crap that will bring an end to the BST. >>
Except this "non-deal" was never even on the BST Derry. It was a private negotiation between two members who have done business before. Had nothing to do with the BST in the least. >>
My apolologies, hard to tell with a complete re-write of the OP. Private business, whether on the BST or not should probably remain private. My statement stands about using the public forum to air private transaction matters. BST is a free service from our host who will surely remove it if disagreement between parties becomes public fodder.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>Gee, dont you get tired of causing problems and running your mouth?
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Phil and I have patched our relationship and we have decided to not let this get in the way of future transactions and/or simply shooting the breeze.
It is regretful that it played out in the public way it did, but it is the past as far as both of us are concerned.
PM me
<< <i>
<< <i>A public display of private business is the kind of crap that will bring an end to the BST. >>
Except this "non-deal" was never even on the BST Derry. It was a private negotiation between two members who have done business before. Had nothing to do with the BST in the least. >>
Then what the heck did you start a thread HERE about?..... Hmmmm.. what goes around comes around!!!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I dont know why I ignored this thread for so long. Im always up for a good laugh. Thanks guys!!!
I find it hard to believe that anything could have gone wrong. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......