Ebay "No returns" question.

thisnamztaken

I've noticed that recently a whole lot more eBay sellers are choosing the "No returns accepted" option for their return policy. Has some new eBay rule been added now that has caused this, or what?

TorinoCobra71

I have noticed this also. These sellers WILL NOT be getting my business.

UncleJoe

I will also be going to a No Return policy once the new "rule" is in effect.

I don't recall exactly but I believe I got an email from eBay indicating that they were eliminating the 3 and 7 day return options for listings. eBay wants you to have a 30 day return policy which is much too long for coins and especially bullion IMO.

Joe.

Unknown

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coinhunters

Too many hoops to have to jump through, if your accepting returns are on PCGS or NGC encapsulated Coins, Medals or Tokens. This is a different world today with far to many individuals as buyers of numismatic items who take advantage of the " unconditional-return " policy. They can and do often times make it very costly in terms of time, fee's and outright significant financial losses for the occasional listing seller. The flip side to this is also that there are an increasing number of Sellers that try to , and do sell counterfeit items. I finally gave up and decided the risk of having to assume significant financial losses or the effort required to correct a wrong was more than I want to involve myself with. There is just to much " Danger " on both sides of this street for me.

boucharda

I really can't see the point of eliminating potential buyers by putting a statement in the auction that has no value.....

ANY coin can be returned if the buyer decides to return it...SNAD covers all.....

I had a buyer return a MS70 08/07 ASE that he overpaid for......reason? SNAD.....he said there was a scratch on the slab....of course there wasn't..Ebay returned his cash

I will add that I fall into the group of buyers that ignore postings with a no return policy.....just makes me feel insecure about purchasing that product

OPA

On coins, I also avoid the NO RETURN sellers, regardles if the coins are in TPG graded holders or not. On bullion purchases, it makes no difference whether they have a return policy (most do not) or not. It's only bullion after all.

Obiwancanoli

I'd recently purchased a coin off eBay that had a "No Returns" policy, however, the description, and the pix, gave me confidence that this not really expensive coin was worth the BIN/B/o. I made an offer I felt fair, it was accepted, and a few days later the coin arrived.

As soon as I opened and inspected the coin, I knew it was going back. The auction pix were skillfully done in a way in which the obvious cleaning and hairlines weren't at all visible on either side. Of course, had this not been the case, I would have felt I picked up a newp at a good price, but when it arrived, clearly, I was disappointed.

I contacted the seller ASAP, and noted the above - I was polite, apologetic. I asked the seller if, in this instance, he would accept the coin as a return, despite his policy, as the cleaning and hairlines weren't visible in the pix, nor was there any mention of it in the auction dialogue.

The seller replied within a reasonable time, instructed me to send the coin back, and he would gladly issue a refund. I did so, the refund appeared 2 days later, and I responded with thanks for his professionalism, and impressive customer service.

Now and then, I take a walk on the wild side, and bid/buy a coin with a No Return policy, but I will not be so naive with the next one. The seller I encounted in this instance did the right thing, perhaps because he anticipated the possiblity of a SNAD anyway, and simply beat me to the punch, so to speak. Nevertheless, I thought it was an impressive response, one which taught me a lesson I sometimes need to re-learn on occasion. In this case, I have the members of this forum to thank for the education I've received, a wealth of accumulated experience which has, so far, taught me enough to more accurately assess a coin in hand, and better still, to be cautious about buying raw coins off eBay (or any place else, for that matter) in the first place...

Once again, thank you all.

ctf_error_coins

I have always had a NO RETURN policy as an Auction is an AUCTION and NOT an Approval Service,

I have 100% Feedback, and a 5.0 STARS on the "AS Described"

When I buy on ebay, I but the COIN, not the return policy, I don't even look to see IF there is a return policy.

BECAUSE you can return ANYTHING on ebay if the item is NASD.

All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS,

topstuf

It's nice that ebay can protect.... buyers. Let's just hope that those buyers become ....sellers... at some future date.

Karma or justice.... whatever.

OPA

<< <i>All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS, >>



No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
But you need to ask yourself, "how many sales have I lost do to my NO Return policy."

Tiny

I have not and will not buy from a seller that does not offer to accept returns.
I have had to return one coin in 12 years but it is the point. Would any of
y'all buy from Wally's or Target or any other store if they didn't accept returns?

SereneDude

<< <i>I really can't see the point of eliminating potential buyers by putting a statement in the auction that has no value.....

ANY coin can be returned if the buyer decides to return it...SNAD covers all.....

I had a buyer return a MS70 08/07 ASE that he overpaid for......reason? SNAD.....he said there was a scratch on the slab....of course there wasn't..Ebay returned his cash

I will add that I fall into the group of buyers that ignore postings with a no return policy.....just makes me feel insecure about purchasing that product >>


I agree 100%
As a buyer, I simply will not buy from a seller who won't gladly take returns within a reasonable period (5-7 days seems fair to me).
OTOH, 30 days is ludicrously long, especially for bullion.
IMHO eBay is once again shooting itself in the foot.
If I was selling bullion items, eBay would be my absolute last resort.
Seller buys, price goes down, seller returns and I'm out the listing fees and the postage - just doesn't seem equitable.
eBay has already stopped giving eBay Bucks on buliion and now they expect sellers to finance buyer speculation on bullion.
Thanks again eBay.

crypto79

<< <i>I have not and will not buy from a seller that does not offer to accept returns.
I have had to return one coin in 12 years but it is the point. Would any of
y'all buy from Wally's or Target or any other store if they didn't accept returns? >>



What the seller says and what the store says are two different things in Ebay's case. Sellers can say what ever they like but if I get a dud in the mail it's going back the next day no matter what.

Greeniejr

Error has it right, it is an AUCTION and not an approval service. The issue is that there are two different types of sellers on eBay that have to follow the same rules. There are the real auction sellers like me who starts everything at 1 cent no reserve. The price is decided by the top two bidders and if they are not sure they want it, they should not bid as high. The second type of seller is the regular retailer who either starts the auction at their retail price or does only BIN or best offers. In that kind of situation I can understand people wanting a return privilege because it is a regular retail sale. Unfortunately both types of sellers have to follow the same rules. In the end you can always use the SNAD threat to force a return anyway.

Two transactions forced my hand on this policy. I listed an 09-S Indian in PCGS MS64 CAC. The bidding was strong and the final price was 20% over sheet levels. It was a really nice PQ coin. I get an email from the buyer saying that he showed it to his dealer and his dealer said it was a bad coin, that if submitted today it would come back MS63 at best. Really? It was so badly canned it was ridiculous. What he said translated was that he payed PQ money because he thought it would grade out 65. When he got it in hand, he figured it would not upgrade so he just returned it.

The second was the sale of a better date gold coin in an NGC details holder cleaned. A major national dealer bought it from us on eBay. They paid an extremely strong price for it, just shy of problem free money. I overnight the coin to them and get a call from them the next day that they are returning it. Why? Because they did not like the coin. Given this dealer is a known crackout artist and doctor, but this was a 1 cent no reserve auction so a return was not acceptable.

mrpotatoheadd

Two things are going to happen once sellers are required to have a 30 day return policy (well, there'll probably be more than just two, but still...):

Buyers will be returning coins that...

1) don't slab high enough to justify the purchase price.
2) they can't flip for a profit in a couple of weeks.

And this is not even addressing the issue of bullion sales- the results here are a no brainer.

If a policy can be abused, you can count on the fact it will be. Requiring a 30 day return policy is an open invitation to cheats.

ctf_error_coins

<< <i>

<< <i>No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
>>



NOT TRUE, I buy and sell one-of-a-kind items, so there is no other seller of similar products.

OPA

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
>>



NOT TRUE, I buy and sell one-of-a-kind items, so there is no other seller of similar products. >>



Must be nice to have a monopoly.

LindeDad

Actually the new minimum return period is going to be two weeks not thirty days.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>I've noticed that recently a whole lot more eBay sellers are choosing the "No returns accepted" option for their return policy. Has some new eBay rule been added now that has caused this, or what? >>



The default setting is no returns.

So if they don't mess with it, then that is what it will show.
.
.

UncleJoe

I think many don't realize that it is eBay that is going to eliminate the choice for 3 and 7 day return options. The choice of return options is going to become either No Returns or 30 day return policy.

Does anyone really feel that a 30 day return policy is necessary and/or acceptable for a seller of coins? I do not, so when I am forced to, my return policy will become No Returns because I am not going to choose a 30 day return policy. Of course if a buyer emails me shortly after receiving the coin and they want to return it, I will accept the return and refund their money.

Joe.

SereneDude

eBay's "Buyer Protection" policy gives a buyer 45 days to file a claim:

"Remember, eBay Buyer Protection doesn't cover fraudulent charges or most cases of buyer remorse. Also, items must be purchased on the U.S. eBay.com website to qualify for eBay Buyer Protection coverage, and are covered for 45 days from the date of payment. "
eBay's plan is practically designed to be abused, blather about "buyer remorse" notwithstanding.

And PayPal will back up buyers too:

"Open a Dispute within 45 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution. For Pay After Delivery transactions you must open your Dispute within 45 Days of the date of your transaction."

Bottom line: if you are a seller and get a buyer who wants to game the system, you are just out of luck.
The system invites abuse and unscrupulous buyers are sure exploit every weakness in the system.

johnny9434

<< <i>I have noticed this also. These sellers WILL NOT be getting my business. >>

nor mine

SamByrd

If the policy does go to a 30 day return period I will go to a no return policy in the ebay listing. I will still offer a 10 day return for any reason
I have done so with any coins I have sold over the last 15 years and will continue to do so.

Russ

<< <i>The choice of return options is going to become either No Returns or 30 day return policy. >>



It's a minimum of 14 days, not 30 days.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

<< <i> I will still offer a 10 day return for any reason >>



That isn't an option.

Russ, NCNE

LindeDad

<< <i>If the policy does go to a 30 day return period I will go to a no return policy in the ebay listing. I will still offer a 10 day return for any reason
I have done so with any coins I have sold over the last 15 years and will continue to do so. >>



eBay is endorsing a thirty day return but the 14 day period will still be available and is more conducive to sales than a no return policy. I have already changed my listings to that.

Russ

Truth is there's really no such thing as a no return policy on eBay, even if the seller sets it as no returns. Thus, those of you who refuse to buy from a seller who has a no return policy are probably screwing yourselves out of good deals.

Russ, NCNE

jt88

<< <i>I have always had a NO RETURN policy as an Auction is an AUCTION and NOT an Approval Service,

I have 100% Feedback, and a 5.0 STARS on the "AS Described"

When I buy on ebay, I but the COIN, not the return policy, I don't even look to see IF there is a return policy.

BECAUSE you can return ANYTHING on ebay if the item is NASD.

All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS, >>



I agree with you.

I always do "no returns accepted", want return go somewhere else, you are not my buyer. I want serious buyers only. Think it over before you bid. I don't care if that will cause less biders on my item. As a buyer I don't care if the seller has return policy or not. I buy if I like the item.

coinman23885

<< <i>I have noticed this also. These sellers WILL NOT be getting my business. >>



+1

SamByrd

I buy from " no returns sellers" I have only had a few issues and both times they agreed to the return. Its not a big issue for me.

lkeigwin

It is incorrect to say that you can return a coin with a simple SNAD. Maybe this works often. But it is no guarantee. I lost a dispute, with ebay siding with the seller, in spite of my assertion that the coin was SNAD due to corrosion that was not apparent from the photos and absent from the description. I appealed and still lost.

So beware about buying a "no returns" coin. You may indeed be stuck with it.
Lance.

LindeDad

I wonder how many of the people saying they will not bid if there is no return have read the terms of service at the other auction formats. Try finding a link for returns at Hertitage or TeleTrade I have never found them.

OPA

<< <i>I wonder how many of the people saying they will not bid if there is no return have read the terms of service at the other auction formats. Try finding a link for returns at Hertitage or TeleTrade I have never found them.
>>



True...but there is no buyers premium on eBay.

Russ

<< <i>

<< <i>I wonder how many of the people saying they will not bid if there is no return have read the terms of service at the other auction formats. Try finding a link for returns at Hertitage or TeleTrade I have never found them.
>>



True...but there is no buyers premium on eBay. >>



So, on the other venues the buyer has the privilege of paying even more for no returns.

Russ, NCNE

LindeDad

<< <i>

<< <i>I wonder how many of the people saying they will not bid if there is no return have read the terms of service at the other auction formats. Try finding a link for returns at Hertitage or TeleTrade I have never found them.
>>



True...but there is no buyers premium on eBay. >>



If you haven't figured out how to total the cost does that make the item cheaper?

coastaljerseyguy

With a no return item, SNAD does not always protect the buyer. I bot an 1895 O Morgan in an NGC 30 slab that had a serious gash along the obverse that was not displayed in the photo. Asked buyer if I could return. He said no. I filed a SNAD and EBAY ruled in favor of the buyer since he did not say anything wrong, it was an NGC VF 30 and I received an NGC 30. They did not care that I sent a photo that differed from the sellers. Buyer beware on any "No Return" coin.

lkeigwin

<< <i>I filed a SNAD and EBAY ruled in favor of the buyer since he did not say anything wrong... >>

If I get the gist of this you mean the seller, not the buyer.
Lance.

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coastaljerseyguy

Yes, my mistake, EBAY ruled in favor of Seller, not me. This was my last purchase on EBAY. Worst customer service.

LindeDad

<< <i>Yes, my mistake, EBAY ruled in favor of Seller, not me. This was my last purchase on EBAY. Worst customer service. >>



I beg to disagree as you did not agree with the NGC grading but want to make that everybody Else's problem rather than contact them about their grade guarantee.

ebaytrader

<< <i>It is incorrect to say that you can return a coin with a simple SNAD. Maybe this works often. But it is no guarantee. I lost a dispute, with ebay siding with the seller, in spite of my assertion that the coin was SNAD due to corrosion that was not apparent from the photos and absent from the description. I appealed and still lost.

So beware about buying a "no returns" coin. You may indeed be stuck with it.
Lance. >>






<< <i>With a no return item, SNAD does not always protect the buyer. I bot an 1895 O Morgan in an NGC 30 slab that had a serious gash along the obverse that was not displayed in the photo. Asked buyer if I could return. He said no. I filed a SNAD and EBAY ruled in favor of the buyer since he did not say anything wrong, it was an NGC VF 30 and I received an NGC 30. They did not care that I sent a photo that differed from the sellers. Buyer beware on any "No Return" coin. >>



Simply do what the majority of the scum do on feepay and claim that the item is not genuine and an expert told you so. Doesn't matter if it's in an NGC or PCGS slab. Works every time. You'll get your money back in a dispute after the item is returned.

SereneDude

<< <i>

<< <i>I have always had a NO RETURN policy as an Auction is an AUCTION and NOT an Approval Service,

I have 100% Feedback, and a 5.0 STARS on the "AS Described"

When I buy on ebay, I but the COIN, not the return policy, I don't even look to see IF there is a return policy.

BECAUSE you can return ANYTHING on ebay if the item is NASD.

All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS, >>



I agree with you.

I always do "no returns accepted", want return go somewhere else, you are not my buyer. I want serious buyers only. Think it over before you bid. I don't care if that will cause less biders on my item. As a buyer I don't care if the seller has return policy or not. I buy if I like the item. >>



I think you are probably losing sales with "No Returns".
As pointed out, sellers can be forced either by eBay or PayPal to allow returns, so why not appear like a good guy in the first place and jump on the "Full Return Privilege" bandwagon?
I can't speak for others but I have rec'd coins that didn't look anywhere near as nice as they did in the auction pictures.
I can tell you that I won't just chalk it up to experience and let the seller keep my money.

coastaljerseyguy

"beg to disagree as you did not agree with the NGC grading but want to make that everybody Else's problem rather than contact them about their grade guarantee."

I did contact the seller first and asked to return. Nothing to do with a grade guarantee, I did not like the coin. What do you mean "everybody else problem". There was a buyer and seller and I was not happy with coin. Why should I have to go to NGC for a guarantee. I got stuck because the seller hid a problem with his photo angling and lighting and refused to accept return. That simple.

ctf_error_coins

"I think you are probably losing sales with "No Returns".

Most likely.

But it is also offset by the occasional bidding war that goes way beyond the value of the product.

I start most of my auctions at 99 cents.

Now what if two bidiots drive the price of a $10 valued item to lets say $200.

The winner gets the coin, maybe does some research AFTER the fact and wants to return it even tho it is exactly what he bid on. Why should I accept it? He is in a binding contract. How is it in any way my fault as to the final price?

SereneDude

<< <i>"I think you are probably losing sales with "No Returns".
Most likely.
But it is also offset by the occasional bidding war that goes way beyond the value of the product.
I start most of my auctions at 99 cents.
Now what if two bidiots drive the price of a $10 valued item to lets say $200.
The winner gets the coin, maybe does some research AFTER the fact and wants to return it even tho it is exactly what he bid on. Why should I accept it? He is in a binding contract. How is it in any way my fault as to the final price? >>


I'm not holding you at fault for anything but I think you should accept returns because the buyer can force your hand with an eBay Buyer Protection claim.
Granted, eBay may take your side but more than likely they won't.
Unhappy buyers tend to leave negative and neutral feedback and will trash your DSRs, which in turn may, at the very least, scare away potential bidders on future auctions.
Satisfied buyers leave good feedback or, at worst, no feedback.
They are your auctions and you are free to do as you please but in general, I think a "No Returns" policy is short-sighted.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>It's a minimum of 14 days, not 30 days. >>

If that's so, I apologize for repeating bad information earlier. In my defense, an eBay rep called me a while back to offer suggestions as to how to increase my sales, and 30 days is what she told me the policy was changing to. I guess I should know better than to just trust that someone working for eBay would actually know what the rules there are (or are going to be).

ctf_error_coins

<< <i>

<< <i>"I think you are probably losing sales with "No Returns".
Most likely.
But it is also offset by the occasional bidding war that goes way beyond the value of the product.
I start most of my auctions at 99 cents.
Now what if two bidiots drive the price of a $10 valued item to lets say $200.
The winner gets the coin, maybe does some research AFTER the fact and wants to return it even tho it is exactly what he bid on. Why should I accept it? He is in a binding contract. How is it in any way my fault as to the final price? >>


I'm not holding you at fault for anything but I think you should accept returns because the buyer can force your hand with an eBay Buyer Protection claim.
Granted, eBay may take your side but more than likely they won't.
Unhappy buyers tend to leave negative and neutral feedback and will trash your DSRs, which in turn may, at the very least, scare away potential bidders on future auctions.
Satisfied buyers leave good feedback or, at worst, no feedback.
They are your auctions and you are free to do as you please but in general, I think a "No Returns" policy is short-sighted. >>



I stand by my feedback, hard to get better than 3500 transactions 100% 0 neutural 0 negative 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.8

SereneDude

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>"I think you are probably losing sales with "No Returns".
Most likely.
But it is also offset by the occasional bidding war that goes way beyond the value of the product.
I start most of my auctions at 99 cents.
Now what if two bidiots drive the price of a $10 valued item to lets say $200.
The winner gets the coin, maybe does some research AFTER the fact and wants to return it even tho it is exactly what he bid on. Why should I accept it? He is in a binding contract. How is it in any way my fault as to the final price? >>


I'm not holding you at fault for anything but I think you should accept returns because the buyer can force your hand with an eBay Buyer Protection claim.
Granted, eBay may take your side but more than likely they won't.
Unhappy buyers tend to leave negative and neutral feedback and will trash your DSRs, which in turn may, at the very least, scare away potential bidders on future auctions.
Satisfied buyers leave good feedback or, at worst, no feedback.
They are your auctions and you are free to do as you please but in general, I think a "No Returns" policy is short-sighted. >>



I stand by my feedback hard to get better than 3500 transactions 100% 0 neutural 0 negative 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.8 >>


I in no way sought to impugn you as a seller. If you took my general comments negatively, I apologize.

ctf_error_coins

no worries its all good

Type2

I sell the same way I dont want to get the big one, Like this is not the Gold coin I sent out and have E-Bay side with the buyer saying that he or she sent it back so he or she get his or her $$$ back and the Gold coin to. I dont think so.