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Pawn Stars Coin Sighting

erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
Anyone catch the show last night? They had a colonial piece graded by NGC "Fine Details". Seller wasnt able to get what they wanted, so she walked out. They had offered her $600. Im not sure of the value since that is not my area of expertise, but seemed like a pretty low offer for a coin that old.

Comments

  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    I saw the show but don't the value of the coin. It looked pretty badly bent to me.
    image
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did they call in the CRO guys to take a look?
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  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It was as Mass Oak Tree 6p graded Fine details 'damaged' by NGC.

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  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That doesn't strike me as a bad offer, but it would depend on what the piece looked like.

    Tom

  • More like $1200 comes to mind.
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the seller was looking for 2-3K for the coin.
  • themasterthemaster Posts: 676 ✭✭✭
    Seller wanted $2000 and the expert was not called. Offer was low, however, the coin was damaged.


    Have a Great Day!
    Louis
    "If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some." Benjamin Franklin


  • << <i>I think the seller was looking for 2-3K for the coin. >>



    That's more like retail, and not an offer he was likely to receive from a specialist dealer who had a ready customer, let alone some guy in a pawn shop.

    Edited to add that this assumes it was a common variety . . .
  • GManGMan Posts: 790 ✭✭
    I watched a Bette Davis/Leslie Howard/Humphrey Bogart movie from 1935 called "The Petrified Forest" last night. In one scene Leslie Howard has no money and Bette Davis gives him a silver dollar. I kept trying to see if it was a Morgan or a Peace dollar but I couldn't tell. Great movie by the way, Leslie Howard steals the show but Bogart is of course Bogart while Bette Davis is good but not great IMO.
    GMan
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Anyone catch the show last night? They had a colonial piece graded by NGC "Fine Details". Seller wasnt able to get what they wanted, so she walked out. They had offered her $600. Im not sure of the value since that is not my area of expertise, but seemed like a pretty low offer for a coin that old. >>

    Age, has little to do with rarity or value since there are many coins which are 1,000 years old that can be purchased for less the $100.

    As for the Pawn Stars offer, it sounds about right since a Pawn Shop NEVER offers retail value for anything which comes through their doors. They always offer 50% of value or less depending upon how quickly they feel that can resell the item and their specific comfort level with the piece.

    The owner of the coin should have gone to a coin shop if he/she was looking for more but I expect the real motivation was simply in appearing on the TV Show.

    IMO, auctioning the coin would present a much better price than any pawn shop would offer.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!


  • << <i>

    << <i>Anyone catch the show last night? They had a colonial piece graded by NGC "Fine Details". Seller wasnt able to get what they wanted, so she walked out. They had offered her $600. Im not sure of the value since that is not my area of expertise, but seemed like a pretty low offer for a coin that old. >>

    Age, has little to do with rarity or value since there are many coins which are 1,000 years old that can be purchased for less the $100.

    As for the Pawn Stars offer, it sounds about right since a Pawn Shop NEVER offers retail value for anything which comes through their doors. They always offer 50% of value or less depending upon how quickly they feel that can resell the item and their specific comfort level with the piece.

    The owner of the coin should have gone to a coin shop if he/she was looking for more but I expect the real motivation was simply in appearing on the TV Show.

    IMO, auctioning the coin would present a much better price than any pawn shop would offer. >>



    I'm guessing a pawn shop is not a high buyer of anything.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Were there consultants involved to help determine the value? If not, then I'm actually somewhat impressed that the pawn shop pretty much nailed the price without additional consultation. And by nailed, I meant offered the expected 30% of retail.
  • coinandcurrency242coinandcurrency242 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭
    IMO damaged coins are alot harder to sell and market.... Personally, I want a coin in good shape, and I won't touch one that is damaged.....

    Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They never really showed the tree side of the coin. I noticed that NGC had attributed it as an Oak Tree Shilling. From what I could see the coin appeared to dented in the middle so that the date side was convex and the tree side concave with very little detail left on the tree side. Given the lack of view of the tree side it was hard for me to assign a value to it.

    Here's a Oak Tree shilling I have in my collection. It is a PCGS EF-45. The strike is not unusual for these coins. If there is interest I'll go into why they look the way they do.

    These coins don't come cheap. This one is worth $7 to $8 thousand. If it were better centered and a bit more original, it would be worth $15 thousand. With Massachuestts silver "perfect" is very rare and expensive.



    image
    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?


  • << <i>It was as Mass Pine Tree 6p graded Fine details 'damaged' by NGC. >>





    << <i>I noticed that NGC had attributed it as an Oak Tree Shilling. >>



    ?

    I never saw the episode, so I don't know what it was.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rick the pawn guy didn't know that much about these coins. He had the date almost right (starting in 1652 instead of 1650 as he said), but at one point he mentioned the four pence or "groat" which was never a product of the John Hull mint. Massachusetts silver came in the two, three, six and twelve (shilling) pence denominations.

    Here's a Pine Tree six pence, which came after the Oak Tree pieces. Aside the centering, they don't get much better than this one, which grades AU-55.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pretty cool coins, Bill Jones. Pretty cool coins! I mean, like - fabulously cool!!!image
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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Getting Rick, or perhaps anyone, to pay $3,000 for it for probably a stretch, but I can remember collectors paying $1,100 for a common variety of the Noe 1 Pine Tree shilling with multiple problems back in the late 1980s.

    Here is a Noe 1. This variety is sort of the poster child for Massachusetts silver because it is somewhat common and usually comes well made.

    image
    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>image >>




    LOL


    -Paul
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    From the looks of it the coin was a piece of crap and the offer was not totally unreasonable. Maybe she would have been offered more elsewhere but the $1200 CRO mentioned seems pretty much full bore retail for the piece.
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    I'll have to watch and see if you can catch the cert number, I wonder if there is a pic in the database.
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if i'm the only one who read "Porn Stars" when scanning all the thread titles on the page...
  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭
    So much of that show is produced and scripted it really takes away from it all. Also from the amount of overdubs (voice over comments) and filmed shots that are head on (done later but meant to look like it was part of the original conversation) I really can see how pieced together this whole show is. All I know for sure is that most of Rick's knowledge comes after the fact in production. Fun show nonetheless though.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    The lady said they found it in the wall (New England home) and had it encapsulated which Rick liked, but he kept pointing out that it was a no grade, "Yeah, but look, it's DAMAGED, it says so right here on the label"

    If I'm not mistaken, didn't she go down to $800?
    Chat Board Lingo

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  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I wonder if i'm the only one who read "Porn Stars" when scanning all the thread titles on the page... >>



    I honestly thought it was just me image
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I saw the episode last night. Was wondering
    what the value was. Thanks to all for
    the replies and teaching me something new !!!

    Timbuk3
  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will have to check out the "Petrified Forest" film for my Coins in Movies website.

    I have seen the film a number of times, it is quite good.

    image
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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I saw the episode last night. Was wondering
    what the value was. Thanks to all for
    the replies and teaching me something new !!! >>



    It's hard to say because I could never get a view of the obverse (tree side) which I think as the really bad side. I think that the piece was concave / convex.

    From what I heard she would not budge from $3,000. My guess is a retail value of maybe $1,000 if the obverse was really bad.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I saw the episode last night. Was wondering
    what the value was. Thanks to all for
    the replies and teaching me something new !!! >>



    It's hard to say because I could never get a view of the obverse (tree side) which I think as the really bad side. I think that the piece was concave / convex.

    From what I heard she would not budge from $3,000. My guess is a retail value of maybe $1,000 if the obverse was really bad. >>



    . If there is interest I'll go into why they look the way they do.


    I want to know, Bill. Also, nice coins. You do seem to have just about one of everything...with one exception.

    Tom

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
    Screen capture with the best shot of the obv. It's a dog! Majorly bent, looks concave. Pretty damn worn as well.

    image
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  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2024 7:51AM
    I can't identify the silver dollar from the film "Petrified Forest".

    image

    Possibly it was a token or prop "coin", as it was actually illegal to show real coins in films then.

    image
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  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    The certifcation number is 2544860-001 if you want to take a look at the coin.
    image
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC Images are not much better:

    image

    image

  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is the NGC lookup with thier photos.

    The photos are not very good. I can't see much detail at all on the obverse.
  • Coins101Coins101 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭
    I was watching and happened to have a Red Book laying next to me on the end table. It seems based upon the condition, the price was about what the Red Book indicated it was worth considering it was damaged.

    Did you see them playing poker at the end with each of them starting with 100 silver dollars? Crumbly went all in with a pair of duces and lost.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> If there is interest I'll go into why they look the way they do.


    I want to know, Bill. Also, nice coins. You do seem to have just about one of everything...with one exception. >>



    It appears that the Massachusetts silver coins were struck on a device called a rocker press or something like it. Unlike the screw press which works in an up and down motion, the rocker press rolls the coins in a sort of a semi-circle. For this reason many Massachusetts coins are on wavy planchets. This debunks some of the old tales about “witch pieces” that were bent to ward off the evil spirits. The coins were issued bent, and as any collector who has run into bent coins knows, that had a negative effect upon how the coins wore in circulation.

    Here are illustrations of a rocker press and a set of rocker dies, which are of European, not Massachusetts, origin.

    Rocker press

    image

    Rocker dies

    image

    According to Louis Jordan, who wrote the book, John Hull, The Mint and the Economics of Massachusetts Coinage, the Pine Tree six pence I displayed earlier was struck on the rocker press on a rolled strip of sterling silver. Then the coins were cut out of the strip with shears with the date and denomination side up so that the person who was doing the cutting would know the denomination of the coin. Since the dies were almost never in the proper alignment, the obverse was off-center. This is a pattern that we see on many Massachusetts silver coins. Here it repeated on this Massachusetts two pence.

    imageimage

    The small planchet Pine Tree shillings were stuck on a screw press. Therefore they are usually on a conventional flat planchet as shown by this piece.

    imageimage

    I think these explanations give us some interesting insights concerning these wonderful coins.

    BTW I look like I have one of everything because I'm a type collector and a numismatic "grazer."

    So what is it I don't have? image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you bill. Now, as for the Pawn Stars coin, unless it is a rare variety, I still think $ 600 looks like a pretty reasonable offer.

    Tom

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you bill. Now, as for the Pawn Stars coin, unless it is a rare variety, I still think $ 600 looks like a pretty reasonable offer. >>



    Given their position in the rare coin market, I agree.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    Having Billjones on this board is like having an interactive numismatic book free of charge.


  • << <i>I watched a Bette Davis/Leslie Howard/Humphrey Bogart movie from 1935 called "The Petrified Forest" last night. In one scene Leslie Howard has no money and Bette Davis gives him a silver dollar. I kept trying to see if it was a Morgan or a Peace dollar but I couldn't tell. Great movie by the way, Leslie Howard steals the show but Bogart is of course Bogart while Bette Davis is good but not great IMO. >>


    Charley Grapewin steals the show as the penurious Gramp Maple.
  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
    I caught the episode. I thought $600 was fair. I have a strong hunch the coin has major distractions. The profit margin on the coin would have been modest. The seller I think must have looked up the coin and she went with the mint state value because it was more attractive than the fine value. I would not be a buyer at $600.

    I also would have passed on the Snoop Dog doll for $100. image
    I brake for ear bars.
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777


    << <i>Here's a Oak Tree shilling I have in my collection. It is a PCGS EF-45. The strike is not unusual for these coins. If there is interest I'll go into why they look the way they do >>



    Bill- your Oak Tree shilling is an absolute beauty!! image
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  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2024 7:51AM
    A better image of the "Petrified Forest" coin:

    image

    It appears to be a token or prop coin with a man's head on one side.

    I added the film to my "Coins in Movies" site.

    image
    https://www.brianrxm.com
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    Coins in Movies
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  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I enjoy the show but:

    1. Pawn shops work on triple keystone (300%) profit. The offers they make are sometime more than half of what they will sell the item for. cleaned up for TV so it won't seem like such a rip.

    2. The overly scripted (and poorly acted) scenes among the stars are a turn off.

    3. I have to feel that many "customers" are just there to be on TV.
    Vplite99
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An old-time experienced dealer advised me to stay away from colonial issues. He told me that the market for colonials is extremely thin and that I would have a hard time selling without losing money when the time comes to sell.

    Having said this,I think Rick offered a fair price for the piece.It wouldn't be easy for him to sell in his shop.Pawn shops want to move items quickly and Rick wasn't seeing that happening with this particular item hence the low offer.

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing to note as that few certified coins with a "Pawn Stars" notation were sold at the 2015 FUN show auction. From what I could see, all of those lots lost money for Rick and company if the prices they paid on TV were accurate.

    Specialist dealers do well with coins within their specialty. Generalist dealers do well with popular, widely collected numismatic items, but they usually can't get top dollar for esoteric die varieties, die states and the like. Their best play is to buy the coins "right," which some people might think is too low, and sell them to the specialists.

    When you are running a pawn shop you are further down in the numismatic pecking order. How many of you go to a pawn shop as your first stop when you are looking for a specific coin? Does your attitude going in say to you, "I should buy things cheaper here?" All of these factors make it harder for a guy like Rick to do well in the coin business, and that's why their offers are "low." No matter what business you are in you can't survive if you buy high and sell low.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A 'revived' thread, but still very interesting. Thanks Bill for your excellent input....Cheers, RickO

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