1) John Maben did not ask NGC to designate "light finish". I did have a conversation with someone there advising them of what was being discussed here on these forums and that I had observed a coin or two just in glancing over the NP4 that were clearly not matted. They ran with it, and as far as I am concerned that is to their credit.
2) I put the light finish coins on eBay in an attempt to establish value. I gave it my best guess with the BIN prices. As much as I respect others opinions, I'm kind of surprised and maybe even a bit unhappy that anyone would say $999 was a "crazy" price for the highest graded light finish coins we got back out of the many submitted.
John >>
Regarding -
point # 1 - Your distinction is without a difference. Without your "advising" of a possible light finish market to NGC, I do not think NGC would have acted independently and graded your pucks with the light finish designation, rather, business as usual would have proceeded.
Point # 2 - Sorry you may be unhappy. Since the light VB now exists under the circumstances claimed, so be it. If the light VB designation did not exist, you would not be unhappy.
MHO - the appropriate error for VB is a total lack thereof; not various degrees of VB.
I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out!
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
John M already posted that he
<< <i>did have a conversation with someone there advising them of what was being discussed here on these forums and that I had observed a coin or two just in glancing over the NP4 that were clearly not matted. They ran with it, and as far as I am concerned that is to their credit. >>
I'm not sure how that equates to
<< <i>the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. >>
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
I will always stand up and say that MCM does a great job and has become the vendor of choice for me. I think there are many that feel the same. When your risk is large your reward can be too. Good luck and keep up the good work
I for one, have no numismatic interest in a "variation" of VB. However, if the masses decide they do, then let them go at it. I don't blame NGC or MCM or anyone else trying to capitalize on a variety market. Time will be the judge.
I've maintained from the beginning that a naked finish P puck would be the cats-a**, and I would love to have one!
Where are the other examples? Someone has to have the elusive "Full-Monty" puck. PLEASE POST (with pics).
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
I will always stand up and say that MCM does a great job and has become the vendor of choice for me. I think there are many that feel the same. When your risk is large your reward can be too. Good luck and keep up the good work >>
100% agree, didn't mean to be accusatory in my earlier posts in any way. Spoke with George from MCM today on the phone. Best customer service I've ever received in the business.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
John spoke with NGC to make them AWARE of what was being said about these coins in the hobby. He did NOT tell them to grade his coins accordingly - they made that decision all on their own. We did NOT know until we got the coins back that they had designated a variety and graded some of our coins with that variety...which is EXACTLY what I said in a previous post.
I look forward to the day when the silver blanks can be identified as to which vendor delivered them to the mint. That way, we could get a puck graded that is a "P" mint mark with light finish, from distributor x, with first strike. That way there may be 10 or more different versions for each and every puck made. All these special varieties (S mint bullion silver eagles is an example) may produce a short term profit for a few, but harms the hobby as a whole in the longrun in my opinion.
John spoke with NGC to make them AWARE of what was being said about these coins in the hobby. He did NOT tell them to grade his coins accordingly - they made that decision all on their own. We did NOT know until we got the coins back that they had designated a variety and graded some of our coins with that variety...which is EXACTLY what I said in a previous post. >>
Back from trout fishing.
CAPITAL LETTERS PROVE YOUR POINT.
How's this -
SHEESH - WHAT A JOKE.
It's been posted that MCM didn't have anything to do with it, so it must be true, John said he advised NGC and they took it from there.
MCM had nothing to do with it.
Stupid, really. Quite the insult, frankly. Amazing how that happens.
This past weekend I finally got a chance to look at my Grand Canyon puck and it turns out I have one without the vapor blast .As Aaron has mentioned even my GC has hairlines on both obverse and reverse. Here is a picture of my Grand Canyon.
Has anyone heard from PCGS how they are going to treat these pucks?
Nice to see another confirmed hairline piece. The hairlines only appeared on the obverse on the OP coin. Yours appear to travel from the NW to the SW of the coin. Nice, this is how I saw them on the OP coin also. Thanks for posting a good photo. Also, we opted to not send it in until PCGS decides what to do. If they decide to do nothing, the OP coin will remain out of a holder.
<< <i>Nice to see another confirmed hairline piece. The hairlines only appeared on the obverse on the OP coin. Yours appear to travel from the NW to the SW of the coin. Nice, this is how I saw them on the OP coin also. Thanks for posting a good photo. Also, we opted to not send it in until PCGS decides what to do. If they decide to do nothing, the OP coin will remain out of a holder. >>
Thanks. I believe the hairlines would not have been there if these pucks would have been vapor-blasted as they were supposed to be. I think these hairlines will be important in classifying the "Non-Vaporblasted" pucks from the "light finish" ones.
Thanks Peace for the pics. Is it reflective at all? Hard to tell with the flat lighting.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Edited to add: oops...just noticed the other thread mentioning the above >>
I had posted a couple of pages back a picture of mint employee holding a prooflike shiny 2010-P Hot Springs puck from the mint's video. I think there will be more like these in the other ATB pucks too. Only a matter of time they are discovered.
<< <i>I have the hairlines but no non vapor blast on one of mine. >>
Update from our host..............At this time, we are not recognizing this variety, but we are currently deciding if we will start determining this variety. When we do we will put out an announcement..... So there you have it. Will be interesting to see what grade we pull from them. Going on 2 weeks so any day now wohooo ..... Enjoy
I believe that today was the last day for PCGS FS designation for the NP4s. I sent my light finish VB in anyway -- at least it will get FS designation. Can always resubmit later...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
The Mint's Response "From photographs we have received, and reports from coin grading services, it is apparent that several varieties of America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins exist with differing or missing vapor blast finishes. We are looking into the cause of the inconsistency in finishes, examining each step in the post-production process when vapor blasting is applied. We are committed to restoring the consistency for which United States Mint products are known worldwide.
While we have ordered new equipment to execute automated vapor blasting on the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins, we are currently using the process originally used for our 3-inch medals. That equipment required retro-fitting and readjustment for the process, and has required additional maintenance due to the higher volume and substantially increased wear of this program.
The new equipment will allow us to move from the manual, batch process to more closely integrate the vapor blasting application into the overall production line for the coin."
"Two distinct surface finishes of the 2010-P Grand Canyon Specimens have been observed: coins with the regular coarse matte finish and coins that have a slightly reflective satin finish. The latter type, designated “Light Finish” by NGC, is distinct from both the bullion version and the standard collector version. This hybrid type is easily identified — it has the same “P” mintmark as the other Specimen issues, but its surfaces are not granular and are more lustrous. The Light Finish coins are also dissimilar from the fully brilliant surfaces of the bullion issue."
"The vapor-blasting process is applied after the coins are struck by “blasting” a compressed mixture of water vapor and ceramic media. On this error, only the Washington side was vapor-blasted but the Yellowstone side was untouched. The Washington side therefore resembles a Specimen while the Yellowstone side appears similar to a bullion issue. NGC has graded this error Specimen 69 and the description “With Unfinished Reverse” is given on the label."
There will be no variety or error fee. Just regular grading fees apply.
Whatever we have in-house will get the new designation beginning Monday. >>
Woohooo Cool news MY Buddies has not graded yet so anything starting monday should be good to go. Thanks for taking care of this and the no charge. Can't wait to see what they think of the ones without any VB. Enjoy
Grades In on My buddies 2 I sent in yosemite got a 68 and his Grand Canyon a 67 .(NOT LIGHT FINISH ) updated ??????????????? Will Be interesting to see if anyone gets above a 67 for the light finish and really what there going to grade Aarons barbers coin. Enjoy
I never got any response on FS cutoffs for the NP4s. Hope my light finish arrives in time! Rather tight window since the announcement came on the 30th, and deadline for FS was 29th (?).
There seems to be quite a variance in what constitutes "light finish". It would be nice to know what the graders are using as a benchmark for this attribution.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Shiny, I have yet to see any PCGS versions hit the bay, or elsewhere.
If I were you one of those would post asap as the "first" with either a high BIN (best offer?) or reserve auction.
MCM has the NGC 64 at $439. I'd start another $150 at LEAST above that. More if you're a gambler.
Have fun!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Just realized I have one of these! My Yosemite coin is on the left for comparison with the Grand Canyon on the right. Out of about 10 photos I took, this is about the best one. The reverse has the same finish as the obverse, the pic just didn't turn out very well. I'll be sending it in for grading next week. Wish me luck!
Very nice - does it have any matting, or proof-like? The photo appears to have some matting (satin).
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>Very nice - does it have any matting, or proof-like? The photo appears to have some matting (satin). >>
Thanks. Yes it does have a bit of a matte finish, but nowhere near the finish on the Yosemite coin. The relief parts of the coin have much more of a proof-like look than the field. The photo doesn't come close to depicting the difference between the two when seen in person.
First PCGS light satin I've seen on the bay. Will be interesting to see how it does... >>
A separate question for Shiny and the E-bay listing.
Why do you say "Free expedited shipping to 48 states"?
I can't understand the thought process that excludes 2 states population from bidding. And not to single you out in particular as there are plenty of others that post the same way. It makes my head want to explode! There must be some kind of mass hysteria misunderstanding or misguided discrimination base on outdated and incorrect "common" knowledge. Common knowledge doesn't make it correct knowledge.
Some vendors just don't want to discuss it at all. More and happier customers at no extra cost to me? Pshaw. Or even less cost to me? Not interested. Makes no difference what the facts are. Totally baffling. "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts. After all, I don't want to appear to be mistaken in my preconceived beliefs, and suffer any embarrassment when I am proven wrong. Rather, I prefer you pay the higher price, even though it costs me nothing, because I'm charging shipping to you one way or another anyway."
I face this all the time when ordering from the web or other mail order methods. The worst are the "Free Shipping" promotions. Not for me. And don't expect to get a discount of the normal shipping cost and then paying the difference because you must be dreaming to think that's going to fly. Free to the 48 states or full boat outrageous shipping expense with no reduction to Hawaii. So basically, those free shipping come on's are lies as far as I am concerned. I've heard "We don't ship to Hawaii" more times than I care to remember. Why not? I'm paying for shipping, why wouldn't you sell to me? Insistence on shipping 2nd day Air via UPS or Fed-X at very high costs, sometimes more than the item cost, vs. USPS. Delivery confirmation is available with or without signature for USPS. Insurance is available for USPS. I don't understand. I will pay the cost. The answer is still no.
I used the post office site to calculate actual costs for various shipping categories. I used the longest distance of Staten Island to Maui and Staten Island to Thousand Oaks, Ca as a "48 states only" comparison. 1st Class Package appears to be up to 15 ounces only. Below is a grid of my findings:
Shipped from:10306, Staten Island, NY Shipped to: 96753, Maui, HI Date shipped: 8/16/11 after 8am Weight: 1 lb (or 8oz for 1st class) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ USPS, Expected Delivery, Cost Express Mail, Thu 8/18 by 3pm, $31.60 Priority Mail, Fri 8/19, $5.95 Priority Mail Sml Box Flat Rate, Fri 8/19, $5.20 Priority Mail Med Box Flat Rate, Fri 8/19, $10.95 Parcel Post, Mon 8/29, $5.41 Media Mail, Mon 8/29. $2.41 1st Class Package, Sat 8/20, $2.56 ______________________________________________________________________ Shipped from:10306, Staten Island, NY Shipped to: 91320, Thousand Oaks, Ca Date shipped: 8/16/11 after 8am Weight: 1 lb (or 8oz for 1st class) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USPS, Expected Delivery, Cost, Difference vs. to Maui Express Mail, Wed 8/17 by Noon, $31.60, 1 day $0 Priority Mail, Thu 8/18, $5.95, 1 day $0 Priority Mail Sml Box Flat Rate, Thu 8/18, $5.20, 1 day $0 Priority Mail Med Box Flat Rate, Thu 8/18, $10.95, 1 day $0 Parcel Post, Tue 8/23, $5.41, 6 days $0 Media Mail, Tue 8/23, $2.41, 1 day $0 1st Class Package, Fri 8/19, $2.56, 1 day $0
It looks like Priority Mail, Small Flat Rate Box is the most cost effective with Medium Flat rate Box second. Flat Rate Boxes take what ever you can fit inside, regardless of weight. You could ship lead at no cost difference to feathers.
Hmmmmmm. No difference in cost. A day or more in time. Both acceptable and reasonable to me. What I don't get is why the "48 States" restriction is used on so many auctions and by so many vendors when it's obvious that such restrictions are not justified. In fact restricting customers to 48 states is eliminating a whole potential customer market, unnecessarily.
One more rant. Some vendors ship not First Class or Priority Mail but use Parcel Post in the mistaken belief that they are saving money. Huh? Say what? Are you crazy, mean spirited or just stupid? Believe me, it grinds my teeth when I see this attitude that may have been true in 1960 but has been upgraded to simply untrue in 2011.
It usually take 4 weeks rather than 4 days when vendors choose to ship Parcel Post rather than 1st Class. Why? I'm paying for shipping. What possible difference could it make to you Mr/Miss Vendor when I'm paying! Why insist on Parcel Post and make me wait 4 weeks? For what reason? As you can see, it's cheaper to go Flat Rate Small Box than Parcel Post. Such stubborn wrong headed thinking drives me up the wall. I've argued for up to half an hour on the phone with a vendor to please, please rethink your shipping policies. Facts and figures and 40 years of experience dealing with mainland vendors gets me absolutely nowhere in changing perceptions in so many cases. Some times I get through and a vendor updates their shipping choices and policies. Many times it is a waste of time to try and penetrate a policy that has no basis in fact. "It's just our policy." Meaning there is no reason for it, it's just something I made up years ago, based on nothing and I'm not going to change now.
Sorry to go off on your innocent post and rant on a pet peeve of mine. I got a little wound up up and once in motion, I couldn't stop till I got it all out. I am not directing my frustration toward you but toward misguided and misinformed vendors. You just happened to be available so I could ask why you have a 48 states restriction. Please forgive me if I offended, impugned or angered you in any way.
Being from Alaska myself, it is kind of a downer when folks won't send small items my way. Understandable for heavy stuff like stereos, etc. However, Shiny may have his reasons.
Small through Large Flat rate goes to Alaska or Hawaii at no extra charge....
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
I think I proved that there is no additional cost to ship to Maui using the USPS, as you confirm, the same is true via Flat Rate Box to Alaska. No addition cost unless they insist in shipping via UPS or Fed-X. It seems arbitrary and discriminatory with no rational reason. As for shipping heavy stuff, if your willing to pay the cost, whats the problem?
If a vendor said "I don't ship to women" or "I don't ship to <insert a minority class here>", there would be an outcry of outrage. No rational vendor would open them selves up to the scorn and negative consequences by having such a policy. I wouldn't want "60 Minutes" or Al Sharpton coming down on me. I don't think anybody would. But when a vendor says "I don't ship to Alaska or Hawaii", isn't that essentially the same thing? Before I condemn the vendor as being discriminatory, I'd like an explanation as to why they won't ship to Alaska or Hawaii. And if the reasoning is based on flawed or misunderstood facts, then I would like the vendor to change their policy. Thereby opening up a whole new customer base. It can't be the cost. It can't be the extra time it takes. Maybe there were some problems with a customer in the past. Maybe a Hawaiian or Inuit offended the vendor somehow. Guilt by association huh. Not the best rationalization.
Wow – that an outcry over an innocent listing I’ve got First from epcjimi1 that we’re “making your own market. Amount of blast”. As far as I’m concerned I’ve got a gizmo to sell and if I find a single buyer for it – we made a market for it, no more no less. Now regarding shipping to 48 states only. Honestly it’s a matter of habit. When I first started selling on Ebay I observed most people had this clause in their listings and I used it for my first listing as well. Since then it became a template and a habit that so far never failed me so I see no reason to change it. I also don’t sell too often so building a customer base is not my priority. Besides there is always an option to ask the seller a question and any reasonable offer can be worked out including shipping to the other destinations. In my opinion communication is the key and the rest can be sorted out. I worked out amazing deals with great people just based on their and my feedback and a word of honor. As an example last time I sold $2700 item based on the buyer’s 1000+ feedback, only $50 deposit and his promise that he was waiting for his Income Tax refund to arrive for the full payment. I waited 2 weeks for the payment and in the end the transaction was closed to the mutual satisfaction. Then a month later I even got an email from the buyer “Hi, I know I bought this set from you awhile ago, But I am so happy with it I left you follow-up feedback. I bought a real nice wooden display case for The set and I go to the bank and look in my safety deposit box and just look at it. I have a pretty nice collection and this set I bought from you is by far the Best, Thank You” That makes me proud and also confirms my way of doing business – so I don’t really see a need to change it. Nothing against Hawaii or Alaska. Or even Staten Island – for $13 Verrazano bridge toll I’ll hand deliver it to Kudbegud in the SI ;-)
Comments
<< <i>For the record:
1) John Maben did not ask NGC to designate "light finish". I did have a conversation with someone there advising them of what was being discussed here on these forums and that I had observed a coin or two just in glancing over the NP4 that were clearly not matted. They ran with it, and as far as I am concerned that is to their credit.
2) I put the light finish coins on eBay in an attempt to establish value. I gave it my best guess with the BIN prices. As much as I respect others opinions, I'm kind of surprised and maybe even a bit unhappy that anyone would say $999 was a "crazy" price for the highest graded light finish coins we got back out of the many submitted.
John >>
Regarding -
point # 1 - Your distinction is without a difference. Without your "advising" of a possible light finish market to NGC, I do not think NGC would have acted independently and graded your pucks with the light finish designation, rather, business as usual would have proceeded.
Point # 2 - Sorry you may be unhappy. Since the light VB now exists under the circumstances claimed, so be it. If the light VB designation did not exist, you would not be unhappy.
MHO - the appropriate error for VB is a total lack thereof; not various degrees of VB.
Good luck!
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out!
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
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http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
John M already posted that he
<< <i>did have a conversation with someone there advising them of what was being discussed here on these forums and that I had observed a coin or two just in glancing over the NP4 that were clearly not matted. They ran with it, and as far as I am concerned that is to their credit. >>
I'm not sure how that equates to
<< <i>the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. >>
I've read enough.
Good luck to ya!
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
I will always stand up and say that MCM does a great job and has become the vendor of choice for me. I think there are many that feel the same. When your risk is large your reward can be too. Good luck and keep up the good work
I've maintained from the beginning that a naked finish P puck would be the cats-a**, and I would love to have one!
Where are the other examples? Someone has to have the elusive "Full-Monty" puck. PLEASE POST (with pics).
<< <i>
<< <i>I can also attest to the fact that MCM had nothing to do with the variety designation on the coins. When they showed up after grading, we weren't even aware that we were receiving what amounts to two different coin IDs in the shipment - normal coins and variety coins.
As an aside, I actually take offense to the statements that allude to MCM and NGC having some unfair, special relationship. This company (MCM) works hard to get the product quickly, get it graded, and get it to the public faster than pretty much anyone else out there. MCM happens to benefit from having their office so close to NGC, but that's as far as anything 'special' goes. The proximity was no coincidence - it was a great business decision, in my opinion.
I tell ya what...there's plenty of empty office space in East Sarasota if anyone thinks they can do it better. Knock yourself out! >>
I will always stand up and say that MCM does a great job and has become the vendor of choice for me. I think there are many that feel the same. When your risk is large your reward can be too. Good luck and keep up the good work >>
100% agree, didn't mean to be accusatory in my earlier posts in any way. Spoke with George from MCM today on the phone. Best customer service I've ever received in the business.
John spoke with NGC to make them AWARE of what was being said about these coins in the hobby. He did NOT tell them to grade his coins accordingly - they made that decision all on their own. We did NOT know until we got the coins back that they had designated a variety and graded some of our coins with that variety...which is EXACTLY what I said in a previous post.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
<< <i>Allow me to clarify a little:
John spoke with NGC to make them AWARE of what was being said about these coins in the hobby. He did NOT tell them to grade his coins accordingly - they made that decision all on their own. We did NOT know until we got the coins back that they had designated a variety and graded some of our coins with that variety...which is EXACTLY what I said in a previous post. >>
Back from trout fishing.
CAPITAL LETTERS PROVE YOUR POINT.
How's this -
SHEESH - WHAT A JOKE.
It's been posted that MCM didn't have anything to do with it, so it must be true, John said he advised NGC and they took it from there.
MCM had nothing to do with it.
Stupid, really. Quite the insult, frankly. Amazing how that happens.
WHATEVER!!!!!
Good luck to ya!
Has anyone heard from PCGS how they are going to treat these pucks?
Thanks
<< <i>Nice to see another confirmed hairline piece. The hairlines only appeared on the obverse on the OP coin. Yours appear to travel from the NW to the SW of the coin. Nice, this is how I saw them on the OP coin also. Thanks for posting a good photo. Also, we opted to not send it in until PCGS decides what to do. If they decide to do nothing, the OP coin will remain out of a holder. >>
Thanks. I believe the hairlines would not have been there if these pucks would have been vapor-blasted as they were supposed to be. I think these hairlines will be important in classifying the "Non-Vaporblasted" pucks from the "light finish" ones.
<< <i>Thanks Peace for the pics. Is it reflective at all? Hard to tell with the flat lighting. >>
Yes, the surfaces are reflective to a certain extent but not mirror like. I would call it plain satiny reflection.
No blasting
Edited to add: oops...just noticed the other thread mentioning the above
Box of 20
<< <i>Apparently NGC has "discovered" the variety
No blasting
Edited to add: oops...just noticed the other thread mentioning the above >>
I had posted a couple of pages back a picture of mint employee holding a prooflike shiny 2010-P Hot Springs puck from the mint's video. I think there will be more like these in the other ATB pucks too. Only a matter of time they are discovered.
<< <i>I have the hairlines but no non vapor blast on one of mine. >>
<< <i>Apparently NGC has "discovered" the variety
No blasting
Edited to add: oops...just noticed the other thread mentioning the above >>
30 lashes with a wet nooddle!!!!
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
We've decided to recognize them as "Light Satin".
We are creating a new PCGS number for this coin.
There will be no variety or error fee. Just regular grading fees apply.
Whatever we have in-house will get the new designation beginning Monday.
<< <i>We just got some of these in last week.
We've decided to recognize them as "Light Satin Finish".
We are creating a new PCGS number for this coin.
There will be no variety or error fee. Just regular grading fees apply.
Whatever we have in-house will get the new designation beginning Monday. >>
Nice, Don! Thanks! I guess my barber will be able to get it encapsulated after all. Thank you PCGS!
"From photographs we have received, and reports from coin grading services, it is apparent that several varieties of America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins exist with differing or missing vapor blast finishes. We are looking into the cause of the inconsistency in finishes, examining each step in the post-production process when vapor blasting is applied. We are committed to restoring the consistency for which United States Mint products are known worldwide.
While we have ordered new equipment to execute automated vapor blasting on the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins, we are currently using the process originally used for our 3-inch medals. That equipment required retro-fitting and readjustment for the process, and has required additional maintenance due to the higher volume and substantially increased wear of this program.
The new equipment will allow us to move from the manual, batch process to more closely integrate the vapor blasting application into the overall production line for the coin."
"Two distinct surface finishes of the 2010-P Grand Canyon Specimens have been observed: coins with the regular coarse matte finish and coins that have a slightly reflective satin finish. The latter type, designated “Light Finish” by NGC, is distinct from both the bullion version and the standard collector version. This hybrid type is easily identified — it has the same “P” mintmark as the other Specimen issues, but its surfaces are not granular and are more lustrous. The Light Finish coins are also dissimilar from the fully brilliant surfaces of the bullion issue."
"The vapor-blasting process is applied after the coins are struck by “blasting” a compressed mixture of water vapor and ceramic media. On this error, only the Washington side was vapor-blasted but the Yellowstone side was untouched. The Washington side therefore resembles a Specimen while the Yellowstone side appears similar to a bullion issue. NGC has graded this error Specimen 69 and the description “With Unfinished Reverse” is given on the label."
<< <i>We just got some of these in last week.
We've decided to recognize them as "Light Satin".
We are creating a new PCGS number for this coin.
There will be no variety or error fee. Just regular grading fees apply.
Whatever we have in-house will get the new designation beginning Monday. >>
Woohooo Cool news MY Buddies has not graded yet so anything starting monday should be good to go. Thanks for taking care of this and the no charge. Can't wait to see what they think of the ones without any VB. Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
I never got any response on FS cutoffs for the NP4s. Hope my light finish arrives in time! Rather tight window since the announcement came on the 30th, and deadline for FS was 29th (?).
There seems to be quite a variance in what constitutes "light finish". It would be nice to know what the graders are using as a benchmark for this attribution.
Recent eBay auction for a NGC SP70 Light Finish closed at $2650.
Seems there is some interest in these with 45 bids. IF PCGS grades any SP70 -- could be quite the sensation.
Linky
<< <i>Awful quiet out there on these. No new discoveries?
Recent eBay auction for a NGC SP70 Light Finish closed at $2650.
Seems there is some interest in these with 45 bids. IF PCGS grades any SP70 -- could be quite the sensation.
Linky >>
Something tells me I'm going to wish I had all three of those 70's back.... without the matte finish the defects are abundant.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Light Finish NP1 Linky
I've got my grades back on 2 GCs you helped me to post pictures earlier - both came back SP64 Light Satin
Now thinking what to do with them - are they worth keeping, any thoughts?
If I were you one of those would post asap as the "first" with either a high BIN (best offer?) or reserve auction.
MCM has the NGC 64 at $439. I'd start another $150 at LEAST above that. More if you're a gambler.
Have fun!
Yes - PCGS SP64 Grand Canyon NP Light Satin - 5 oz Silver First Strike
Thanks for the advise, will probably try to sell one and keep another
<< <i>Very nice - does it have any matting, or proof-like? The photo appears to have some matting (satin). >>
Thanks. Yes it does have a bit of a matte finish, but nowhere near the finish on the Yosemite coin. The relief parts of the coin have much more of a proof-like look than the field. The photo doesn't come close to depicting the difference between the two when seen in person.
First PCGS light satin I've seen on the bay. Will be interesting to see how it does...
Yes - it's is mine, I posted it on BST - I did not want to do self-advertisement here but thanks for help
Regards
Shiny
It's over.
<< <i>I gotta give you guys credit for making your own market. Amount of blast. Like there is an expert on this criterion. Srsly. Get a grip.
It's over. >>
I will never let you go ATB's, as they slowly slink into the ocean.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>Shiny, is this your light satin?
First PCGS light satin I've seen on the bay. Will be interesting to see how it does... >>
A separate question for Shiny and the E-bay listing.
Why do you say "Free expedited shipping to 48 states"?
I can't understand the thought process that excludes 2 states population from bidding. And not to single you out in particular as there are plenty of others that post the same way. It makes my head want to explode! There must be some kind of mass hysteria misunderstanding or misguided discrimination base on outdated and incorrect "common" knowledge. Common knowledge doesn't make it correct knowledge.
Some vendors just don't want to discuss it at all. More and happier customers at no extra cost to me? Pshaw. Or even less cost to me? Not interested. Makes no difference what the facts are. Totally baffling.
"My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts. After all, I don't want to appear to be mistaken in my preconceived beliefs, and suffer any embarrassment when I am proven wrong. Rather, I prefer you pay the higher price, even though it costs me nothing, because I'm charging shipping to you one way or another anyway."
I face this all the time when ordering from the web or other mail order methods. The worst are the "Free Shipping" promotions. Not for me. And don't expect to get a discount of the normal shipping cost and then paying the difference because you must be dreaming to think that's going to fly. Free to the 48 states or full boat outrageous shipping expense with no reduction to Hawaii. So basically, those free shipping come on's are lies as far as I am concerned. I've heard "We don't ship to Hawaii" more times than I care to remember. Why not? I'm paying for shipping, why wouldn't you sell to me? Insistence on shipping 2nd day Air via UPS or Fed-X at very high costs, sometimes more than the item cost, vs. USPS. Delivery confirmation is available with or without signature for USPS. Insurance is available for USPS. I don't understand. I will pay the cost. The answer is still no.
I used the post office site to calculate actual costs for various shipping categories. I used the longest distance of Staten Island to Maui and Staten Island to Thousand Oaks, Ca as a "48 states only" comparison. 1st Class Package appears to be up to 15 ounces only. Below is a grid of my findings:
Shipped from:10306, Staten Island, NY
Shipped to: 96753, Maui, HI
Date shipped: 8/16/11 after 8am
Weight: 1 lb (or 8oz for 1st class)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
USPS, Expected Delivery, Cost
Express Mail, Thu 8/18 by 3pm, $31.60
Priority Mail, Fri 8/19, $5.95
Priority Mail Sml Box Flat Rate, Fri 8/19, $5.20
Priority Mail Med Box Flat Rate, Fri 8/19, $10.95
Parcel Post, Mon 8/29, $5.41
Media Mail, Mon 8/29. $2.41
1st Class Package, Sat 8/20, $2.56
______________________________________________________________________
Shipped from:10306, Staten Island, NY
Shipped to: 91320, Thousand Oaks, Ca
Date shipped: 8/16/11 after 8am
Weight: 1 lb (or 8oz for 1st class)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
USPS, Expected Delivery, Cost, Difference vs. to Maui
Express Mail, Wed 8/17 by Noon, $31.60, 1 day $0
Priority Mail, Thu 8/18, $5.95, 1 day $0
Priority Mail Sml Box Flat Rate, Thu 8/18, $5.20, 1 day $0
Priority Mail Med Box Flat Rate, Thu 8/18, $10.95, 1 day $0
Parcel Post, Tue 8/23, $5.41, 6 days $0
Media Mail, Tue 8/23, $2.41, 1 day $0
1st Class Package, Fri 8/19, $2.56, 1 day $0
It looks like Priority Mail, Small Flat Rate Box is the most cost effective with Medium Flat rate Box second. Flat Rate Boxes take what ever you can fit inside, regardless of weight. You could ship lead at no cost difference to feathers.
Hmmmmmm. No difference in cost. A day or more in time. Both acceptable and reasonable to me. What I don't get is why the "48 States" restriction is used on so many auctions and by so many vendors when it's obvious that such restrictions are not justified. In fact restricting customers to 48 states is eliminating a whole potential customer market, unnecessarily.
One more rant. Some vendors ship not First Class or Priority Mail but use Parcel Post in the mistaken belief that they are saving money. Huh? Say what? Are you crazy, mean spirited or just stupid? Believe me, it grinds my teeth when I see this attitude that may have been true in 1960 but has been upgraded to simply untrue in 2011.
It usually take 4 weeks rather than 4 days when vendors choose to ship Parcel Post rather than 1st Class. Why? I'm paying for shipping. What possible difference could it make to you Mr/Miss Vendor when I'm paying! Why insist on Parcel Post and make me wait 4 weeks? For what reason? As you can see, it's cheaper to go Flat Rate Small Box than Parcel Post. Such stubborn wrong headed thinking drives me up the wall. I've argued for up to half an hour on the phone with a vendor to please, please rethink your shipping policies. Facts and figures and 40 years of experience dealing with mainland vendors gets me absolutely nowhere in changing perceptions in so many cases. Some times I get through and a vendor updates their shipping choices and policies. Many times it is a waste of time to try and penetrate a policy that has no basis in fact. "It's just our policy." Meaning there is no reason for it, it's just something I made up years ago, based on nothing and I'm not going to change now.
Sorry to go off on your innocent post and rant on a pet peeve of mine. I got a little wound up up and once in motion, I couldn't stop till I got it all out. I am not directing my frustration toward you but toward misguided and misinformed vendors. You just happened to be available so I could ask why you have a 48 states restriction. Please forgive me if I offended, impugned or angered you in any way.
Small through Large Flat rate goes to Alaska or Hawaii at no extra charge....
<< <i> Shiny may have his reasons. >>
That's what I would like to know.
I think I proved that there is no additional cost to ship to Maui using the USPS, as you confirm, the same is true via Flat Rate Box to Alaska. No addition cost unless they insist in shipping via UPS or Fed-X. It seems arbitrary and discriminatory with no rational reason. As for shipping heavy stuff, if your willing to pay the cost, whats the problem?
If a vendor said "I don't ship to women" or "I don't ship to <insert a minority class here>", there would be an outcry of outrage. No rational vendor would open them selves up to the scorn and negative consequences by having such a policy. I wouldn't want "60 Minutes" or Al Sharpton coming down on me. I don't think anybody would. But when a vendor says "I don't ship to Alaska or Hawaii", isn't that essentially the same thing? Before I condemn the vendor as being discriminatory, I'd like an explanation as to why they won't ship to Alaska or Hawaii. And if the reasoning is based on flawed or misunderstood facts, then I would like the vendor to change their policy. Thereby opening up a whole new customer base. It can't be the cost. It can't be the extra time it takes. Maybe there were some problems with a customer in the past. Maybe a Hawaiian or Inuit offended the vendor somehow. Guilt by association huh. Not the best rationalization.
Please help me understand the reasoning.
First from epcjimi1 that we’re “making your own market. Amount of blast”. As far as I’m concerned I’ve got a gizmo to sell and if I find a single buyer for it – we made a market for it, no more no less.
Now regarding shipping to 48 states only. Honestly it’s a matter of habit. When I first started selling on Ebay I observed most people had this clause in their listings and I used it for my first listing as well. Since then it became a template and a habit that so far never failed me so I see no reason to change it. I also don’t sell too often so building a customer base is not my priority. Besides there is always an option to ask the seller a question and any reasonable offer can be worked out including shipping to the other destinations. In my opinion communication is the key and the rest can be sorted out. I worked out amazing deals with great people just based on their and my feedback and a word of honor.
As an example last time I sold $2700 item based on the buyer’s 1000+ feedback, only $50 deposit and his promise that he was waiting for his Income Tax refund to arrive for the full payment. I waited 2 weeks for the payment and in the end the transaction was closed to the mutual satisfaction. Then a month later I even got an email from the buyer “Hi, I know I bought this set from you awhile ago, But I am so happy with it I left you follow-up feedback. I bought a real nice wooden display case for The set and I go to the bank and look in my safety deposit box and just look at it. I have a pretty nice collection and this set I bought from you is by far the Best, Thank You” That makes me proud and also confirms my way of doing business – so I don’t really see a need to change it. Nothing against Hawaii or Alaska. Or even Staten Island – for $13 Verrazano bridge toll I’ll hand deliver it to Kudbegud in the SI ;-)