Half Cents Complete Variety Set by Cohen Numbers, Circulation Strikes (1793-1857)

llafoe

This is a follow-on thread to my 18th Century Type Set thread...

Would it be better for Larsen to work on this 100 coin Half Cents Complete Variety Set than the 15/25 type set? Would it be a better set for him to learn to grade coins, identify varieties, die states, become an expert on a series, etc.? This is his favorite denomination, bar none. My biggest FEAR is building a visually appealing problem-free consistent set that will maintain his interest. Is it to specialized to keep his interest... or since there are 100 "different" same denomination coins, will it keep his interest more easily than 15/25 different denomination coins?

Bochiman

I've started a 1/2 cent everyman's set...I enjoy it. Some are easy to find, others not quite.
I would have to say that, while I do enjoy the set, and upgrading a few of them as I get the opportunity, I have 0 interest in a varities set. I also don't have any interest in morgan VAMs even though I like morgan dollars.

Each person is different, and Larsen my like the varities....but, maybe start a standard set and then, if he likes it and wants to keep going, he can morph it into the varities set, right?

MidLifeCrisis

How old is Larsen?

I think you're trying too hard. Just be with him to coach him on buying whatever he likes. Teach him what to look for and how to pick out good quality. But be flexible and don't try to pin him to one set or series. Let him explore numismatics with you as his guide. Let him go all over.

canadanz

What's going to happen when your kids get to the point that they have to spend their own money on coins and they can't afford to spend $200,000 to build an 18th century type set? How much of these collections are actually your kids v. actually yours? Seems like it's more your collection than theirs.

I don't mean any of it in the wrong way, but I was just thinking about my collecting -- I don't think I'd enjoy my (relatively) meagre coins nearly as much as I do if I had a parent buying me anything I wanted when I was 10 or 11 years old.

llafoe

<< <i>How old is Larsen?

I think you're trying too hard. Just be with him to coach him on buying whatever he likes. Teach him what to look for and how to pick out good quality. But be flexible and don't try to pin him to one set or series. Let him explore numismatics with you as his guide. Let him go all over. >>



He's 10. He has all the denominations, but he is drawn to half-cents and 18th century. The problem is, I'm about ready to deploy again - for 15 months. We work on coins while I'm deployed. We have 3 months to have a goal we can work toward while I'm in Afghanistan. This is "our" time while I'm away. We "find" coins online... (now you know why TPG grades are so important to me). The Half Cents Basic Set is only 33 coins... Ron, is this the set you're working on?

llafoe

<< <i>What's going to happen when your kids get to the point that they have to spend their own money on coins and they can't afford to spend $200,000 to build an 18th century type set? How much of these collections are actually your kids v. actually yours? Seems like it's more your collection than theirs.

I don't mean any of it in the wrong way, but I was just thinking about my collecting -- I don't think I'd enjoy my (relatively) meagre coins nearly as much as I do if I had a parent buying me anything I wanted when I was 10 or 11 years old. >>



It's how we spend our time together while I'm at war. I know it appears unorthodox, but it's all we have... he's had to experience a long, seemingly unending custody battle and my prolonged periods of time away. He contributes everything but money. I'm seeking advice to set a realistic goal (and options) for us to discuss on Wednesday. He's making the decisions; I'm just trying to ensure they're not unattainable.

savoyspecial

that's funny, most 10 year olds can't stand their 'Little Sisters'

Coinosaurus

If you can get a ten-year old kid to attribute half-cents by Cohen variety......then you are pretty much ahead of every early copper collector of all time.

If he is a savant I say go for it. The next Pistareen is always out there waiting to be discovered.

If he is merely extraordinary, probably better to stick to the overall type set & include all denominations.

Billet7

Stick with a date/major variety set. Trust me...it's enough. When he finishes there is always room to improve gradewise. A Major variety set will put you in it neck deep...since you have to have BOTH 1802 varieties...and BOTH 1796 varieties. Most collections of half cents are lacking both dates.

Bochiman

<< <i>

<< <i>How old is Larsen?

I think you're trying too hard. Just be with him to coach him on buying whatever he likes. Teach him what to look for and how to pick out good quality. But be flexible and don't try to pin him to one set or series. Let him explore numismatics with you as his guide. Let him go all over. >>



He's 10. He has all the denominations, but he is drawn to half-cents and 18th century. The problem is, I'm about ready to deploy again - for 15 months. We work on coins while I'm deployed. We have 3 months to have a goal we can work toward while I'm in Afghanistan. This is "our" time while I'm away. We "find" coins online... (now you know why TPG grades are so important to me). The Half Cents Basic Set is only 33 coins... Ron, is this the set you're working on? >>



Yes, but one of the coins (1831) doesn't count (imho) as it is a proof issue that they haven't removed from the set. I've asked BJ to remove it, and she mentioned she checked on that with "the experts" but that they didn't want to remove it just yet

The 1796 is nigh impossible too.....super expensive and only seems to come up rarely.

It's a doable set, for the most part , and you can take time to find the right coins. I agree with your statement, in a different post, about some of the splotchiness but there is a lot less of it with the brown coins (circ). Also, be aware that some will have carbon spots, spots removed, PVC (I returned a super nice AU58 because the only part that wasn't nice was a non-active PVC blotch). Unlike silver, no dipping

Billet7

That's one thing I LOVE about early copper...you can't really mess with it or you ruin it. If it's original, then it's original. You can't really return a copper coin to a state of "originality" once it's been messed with...you can try, but it's near impossible.

pursuitofliberty

My suggestion would be to work on type first (Half Cent type).

Maybe concentrate on a grade range, particular look, etc. Get the books and have him attribute what the two of you find/buy. Even two or three of a type is okay, but try to get one of each major sub-type early. IMO, in addition to some satisfaction, it helps expand the knowledge base.



Typically I found working with my children, and often from a bit of a distance (but certainly not the same situation), they would then gravitate one way or another. My means were and are probably much less, but the experience might be worth noting.

My oldest son started with 20th Century type and Lincoln Cents, but gravitated towards Peace Dollars. For a couple years he was into it pretty heavy, and had a near complete set before he graduated. Although I appreciated the design, I never would have learned as much as we did if we had not done them togther.

My daughter liked old circulated silver and war nickels, and then Gem Washington Quarters, but she really fell into a love with Currency. We acquired some nice Fractionals and she still enjoys them. She also still has what she called her "wall of shame" ... LOL. Other than a few types, she had a tack board of almost every 20th century (pre-64) type in less than VG ... but every one is problem-free and circulated well, with nice circ-cam contrast.

My youngest son (now 15), also started with 20th Century type and Lincolns (much in big-brothers path), but has a great appreciation and knowledge for many US Coins (moreso than the older two). His favorite 20th design is the WLH, and he has been building a nice Choice AU set. He also has a nearly complete (minus the major keys) set of Lincolns in VG/Fine to AU that he picked from numerous trips to the local shop to pick through 500 count bags and under a dollar boxes.

BillJones

I collected half cents by die variety from the mid 1980s to the mid 1990s when I became a coin dealer. I concentrated on the more common coins from 1800 to 1857, which included all of the varieites that were made for circulation. I did nothing with the super rare Proof only dates. I sold the best part of my half cent collection to raise "seed money" for the business.

Collecting half cents by die variety was very difficult when I did it and even harder now. Even if you are very serious and have a lot money I think you find that you will reach a wall and be able to go no further. For example I wanted to put together a set of the 12, 1804 varieites. (There are 13 Cohen numbers, but one, 1804 C-3 is a die state of 1804 C-5 and has been dropped.) I got all of them except the 1804 C-2 which is listed as a R-7 variety. I think that are now about a dozen known.

One guy owns five or six of the dozen known which are also among the finest known. He is a great guy, and if you join EAC (Early American Coppers Club) and go to the annual convention, you will get to know him very quickly. He is very approachable and not at all a "coin snob." But he does own those coins, and he's not selling any time soon. That does not leave very many for the other collectors.

I ran into similar situations with the dates 1802, 1806 and 1808. If you want to know the varieties I'll post them here.

The few examples of the great rarities usually sell at major specialist auctions at strong prices. You sort of have to wait your turn to own them, and you have to have the resources to buy them. Or if you go to many, many shows, you might get lucky and cherry pick one, but that has only gotten harder.

You might help your son collect the half cents in a more casual way and build up as he gets older, but trying to collect the whole die variety set is really hard and frustrating. I was involved for about 10 years, and I bought some very low grade examples of the major rarities along the way to fill holes. But finally I gave up and went the total type set route, which I am now trying to finish.

Bochiman

Bill has verbalized what I was noticing when I looked at the series and made a conscious effort to avoid variety collecting. I may put a variety as the date coin, if I like the look of the coin, but I don't feel a need for multiple of the same date (except when I upgrade due to grade).


Bill - what are YOUR thoughts on PCGS leaving the 1831 in the mint state category for half cents?

BillJones

When it comes to 1831 half cents, I don't know any more than what has been published in the books, mostly by Breen. I know half cent collectors who have gotten together to compare what they have and only indirectly know they claim there are both Proof and business strike coins of the original issue. There are also two set restrike issues that are called Proofs.

I never dreamed of owning an 1831 half cent when I was collecting them by die variety. The business strikes were listed in Cohen's book, but they were beyond my ability to pay at that point.

halfcentman

<< <i>This is a follow-on thread to my 18th Century Type Set thread...

Would it be better for Larsen to work on this 100 coin Half Cents Complete Variety Set than the 15/25 type set? Would it be a better set for him to learn to grade coins, identify varieties, die states, become an expert on a series, etc.? This is his favorite denomination, bar none. My biggest FEAR is building a visually appealing problem-free consistent set that will maintain his interest. Is it to specialized to keep his interest... or since there are 100 "different" same denomination coins, will it keep his interest more easily than 15/25 different denomination coins? >>



This is a set that you will never complete in your lifetime barring some miracle.

The "Whister" collection that is on my website has 92 varieties. the 1794 C-6b is unique, an 1831 Original will cost you well over $50K, and there are other "B" girls (rare 1794 edge letters), and ridiculously rare varieties that come up rarely, not to mention a 1796 No Pole. The Rouse specimen went for $345K a few years ago.

Your best bet is to assemble a business-strike year set, and ditch the 1831 because most people think it's a proof. It's still challenging with a 1793, 1796, 1802, and 1811, but attainable with patience and deep pockets.

You want to look for coins that are problem-free as possible. DO NOT GET OVERLY ENAMORED WITH SHARPNESS, OR TECHNICAL GRADE.

If you need any other information, please do not hesitate to contact me. You can even call me if you would like. My cell is on my web site.

Greg Heim
EAC 3619